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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

First post First post
Author
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2141 - 2014-02-03 19:25:45 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sorry, just could not resist laughing at your ego Smile


Where's the ego in the post you quoted?


The, 'I am a scientist', bit, It is totally irrelevant.


No its not because the fool was trying to tell me I don't understand scientific testing and data controls when I've literally made my career out of those.

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Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#2142 - 2014-02-03 19:28:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


One faction drop and you're suddenly 300mil/hr. And don't deny it, we're talking top anoms, and top anoms have that.
And 118 mil/hr is absolute best for hisec, with luck, assumptions and 108mil SP character. Your anoms can be cleared with the same speed at 10% of the SP and cost.


Faction drops are rare, hence why they are so expensive, they will not happen enough to make any difference. The high sec results are also not the most you can get, that was made with a BS with only 1 billion isk in fittings and no implants. You can do even better than that.

So no, as we can see high sec earns you more isk.


How is 40% earning at best is more ISK again?
When you talk average anoms being 70-90, I must tell you that average missions are 30-35. Try Buzz Kill. 4 battleships and zomgwtfcrapload of elite frigs with 25k bounty. And it's about 3 times more common than extravaganzas and blockades combined.
Anoms are harvestable in Oracles with not even 100mil in ship+fittings. 10% of your bs. And you're virtually safe from gankers being able to dock up on sight, you won't get anywhere near that level of safety in hisec mission hubs.

Another session of goon math and I will follow the advice of not responding to you.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#2143 - 2014-02-03 19:29:09 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Lordy -easy version for you dear sir, he stated that he was a scientist, to try to give weight/gravitas to his opinions.


Well, maybe he said it because it's true. I don't know and neither do you, but he doesn't post like an un-educated muppet.

Notorious Fellon wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:
No, anoms are not "in place of" anything. There are anoms in all areas of EVE. Compare those. If you were asking for level 6 missions I doubt you would hear so much resistance. But asking for a nerf based on a ridiculous comparison won't get you much support.


Are you suggesting there are sanctums, havens and forsaken hubs in highsec? Are you suggesting that there are anoms in highsecc that even remotely compare to them? I didn't think so.

Combat level 4 missions are generally battleship-heavy, as are the anoms I mentioned. They might not be exactly equal, but as someone who's extensively done both they're reasonably similar in terms of content and difficulty.


No, I am not claiming there are Sanctums in hisec. No clue where you got that idea.

I am claiming that anoms in null are not comparable to missions in hisec inside a little box that ignores all other income sources.

It simply does not matter. Either compare equal activities, or compare the *complete* income streams. No cherry picking.


They are fairly comparable. There's no exact comparison.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Notorious Fellon
#2144 - 2014-02-03 19:29:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


One faction drop and you're suddenly 300mil/hr. And don't deny it, we're talking top anoms, and top anoms have that.
And 118 mil/hr is absolute best for hisec, with luck, assumptions and 108mil SP character. Your anoms can be cleared with the same speed at 10% of the SP and cost.


Faction drops are rare, hence why they are so expensive, they will not happen enough to make any difference. The high sec results are also not the most you can get, that was made with a BS with only 1 billion isk in fittings and no implants. You can do even better than that.

So no, as we can see high sec earns you more isk.


"So no, as we can see high sec earns you more isk"

I thought you were only comparing L4 missions in hisec to Anoms in Null?

Would you like to revise your blanket statement?

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.

Hell Ball
Doomheim
#2145 - 2014-02-03 19:30:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


One faction drop and you're suddenly 300mil/hr. And don't deny it, we're talking top anoms, and top anoms have that.
And 118 mil/hr is absolute best for hisec, with luck, assumptions and 108mil SP character. Your anoms can be cleared with the same speed at 10% of the SP and cost.


Faction drops are rare, hence why they are so expensive, they will not happen enough to make any difference.
.
..............But they still happen tho...............
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#2146 - 2014-02-03 19:34:37 UTC
Hell Ball wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Faction drops are rare, hence why they are so expensive, they will not happen enough to make any difference.
.
..............But they still happen tho...............


And plenty of those faction drops are tags and ammo, worth pennies. The last module I had drop was a 20 mil DG cloak.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2147 - 2014-02-03 19:35:58 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:


How is 40% earning at best is more ISK again?
When you talk average anoms being 70-90, I must tell you that average missions are 30-35. Try Buzz Kill. 4 battleships and zomgwtfcrapload of elite frigs with 25k bounty. And it's about 3 times more common than extravaganzas and blockades combined.
Anoms are harvestable in Oracles with not even 100mil in ship+fittings. 10% of your bs. And you're virtually safe from gankers being able to dock up on sight, you won't get anywhere near that level of safety in hisec mission hubs.

Another session of goon math and I will follow the advice of not responding to you.


Yet you yourself have seen that 100+ mil/hr happens in level 4 missions.

So who cares if some scrub can only drag a poorly fit raven through level 4s and only earns 30 mil? The point is that people like me are pulling in over 100 mil/hr in high sec while out in null we get at best 90 mil/hr and only when uninterrupted.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2148 - 2014-02-03 19:37:18 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:


How is 40% earning at best is more ISK again?
When you talk average anoms being 70-90, I must tell you that average missions are 30-35. Try Buzz Kill. 4 battleships and zomgwtfcrapload of elite frigs with 25k bounty. And it's about 3 times more common than extravaganzas and blockades combined.
Anoms are harvestable in Oracles with not even 100mil in ship+fittings. 10% of your bs. And you're virtually safe from gankers being able to dock up on sight, you won't get anywhere near that level of safety in hisec mission hubs.

Another session of goon math and I will follow the advice of not responding to you.


You are wrong and you have not read the sheet. The average anomaly was ~29m.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing

Re-linked again, you highsec pubbies have no excuse for not reading it and continuing to spout your crap.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#2149 - 2014-02-03 19:37:34 UTC
Hell Ball wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


One faction drop and you're suddenly 300mil/hr. And don't deny it, we're talking top anoms, and top anoms have that.
And 118 mil/hr is absolute best for hisec, with luck, assumptions and 108mil SP character. Your anoms can be cleared with the same speed at 10% of the SP and cost.


Faction drops are rare, hence why they are so expensive, they will not happen enough to make any difference.
.
..............But they still happen tho...............


And most of the time they're expensive due to being OP, not rare. Because non-OP ones have meh prices even with the same rarity. I believe new eden can accomodate 100 times more OP ones without a digit price drop.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2150 - 2014-02-03 19:38:07 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Hell Ball wrote:

..............But they still happen tho...............


The last two faction drops I have had dropped tags and ammo. I can count the number of dread spawns I have had in anoms in the last two years on one hand and the only mod of worth I got was the X-L shield booster which isn't worth a huge amount.

Most faction mods that drop are junk, so yea it might happen but its not going to make any difference to your isk/hr.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#2151 - 2014-02-03 19:43:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


How is 40% earning at best is more ISK again?
When you talk average anoms being 70-90, I must tell you that average missions are 30-35. Try Buzz Kill. 4 battleships and zomgwtfcrapload of elite frigs with 25k bounty. And it's about 3 times more common than extravaganzas and blockades combined.
Anoms are harvestable in Oracles with not even 100mil in ship+fittings. 10% of your bs. And you're virtually safe from gankers being able to dock up on sight, you won't get anywhere near that level of safety in hisec mission hubs.

Another session of goon math and I will follow the advice of not responding to you.


Yet you yourself have seen that 100+ mil/hr happens in level 4 missions.

So who cares if some scrub can only drag a poorly fit raven through level 4s and only earns 30 mil? The point is that people like me are pulling in over 100 mil/hr in high sec while out in null we get at best 90 mil/hr and only when uninterrupted.


"hisec dares to make 40% ISK of nullsec, nerf hisec".
I am going to stop responding to you as promised. I have seen 300 mil/hr happen to anyone in null just for ratting there, as well as I've seen 100 mil/hr happen to lucky top corps L4 runner under the constant threat of a gank and at 10 times the expenses of null ratter.

La Nariz wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


How is 40% earning at best is more ISK again?
When you talk average anoms being 70-90, I must tell you that average missions are 30-35. Try Buzz Kill. 4 battleships and zomgwtfcrapload of elite frigs with 25k bounty. And it's about 3 times more common than extravaganzas and blockades combined.
Anoms are harvestable in Oracles with not even 100mil in ship+fittings. 10% of your bs. And you're virtually safe from gankers being able to dock up on sight, you won't get anywhere near that level of safety in hisec mission hubs.

Another session of goon math and I will follow the advice of not responding to you.


You are wrong and you have not read the sheet. The average anomaly was ~29m.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing

Re-linked again, you highsec pubbies have no excuse for not reading it and continuing to spout your crap.


Stop spreading your specgoonlations, they're baseless and you know it.
I can make one with the Buzz Kill mission and get exactly 40% of that without speculating anyway though. Hear that, I don't even have to purposely lower my numbers.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2152 - 2014-02-03 19:46:39 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:


Stop spreading your specgoonlations, they're baseless and you know it.
I can make one with the Buzz Kill mission and get exactly 40% of that without speculating anyway though. Hear that, I don't even have to purposely lower my numbers.


I'm not spreading anything, I gave you a fit, I gave you a method, I gave the requisite skills and all the parameters you need to reproduce exactly what I did. Anyone who can get out there can verify it. You plugging your ears and chanting no isn't convincing anyone.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#2153 - 2014-02-03 19:47:15 UTC
this thread..



I like Battleships.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2154 - 2014-02-03 19:48:04 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:


"hisec dares to make 40% ISK of nullsec, nerf hisec".
I am going to stop responding to you as promised. I have seen 300 mil/hr happen to anyone in null just for ratting there, as well as I've seen 100 mil/hr happen to lucky top corps L4 runner under the constant threat of a gank and at 10 times the expenses of null ratter.



300 mil/hr was what the old tracking titans were earning in anoms. That kind of income is impossible from anoms today.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2155 - 2014-02-03 19:50:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Hell Ball wrote:

..............But they still happen tho...............


The last two faction drops I have had dropped tags and ammo.

Most faction mods that drop are junk, so yea it might happen but its not going to make any difference to your isk/hr.


That's the same thinking that killed Diablo 3.

See, it's not about you and your bad luck. It's about the average of everyone that runs these things. Not everyone is as sadly lacking of good drops as you are.

Cherry picking one player's performance to bolster your argument is hardly meaningful of anything. Just a waste of forum space.

Mr Epeen Cool
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2156 - 2014-02-03 19:54:34 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Hell Ball wrote:

..............But they still happen tho...............


The last two faction drops I have had dropped tags and ammo.

Most faction mods that drop are junk, so yea it might happen but its not going to make any difference to your isk/hr.


That's the same thinking that killed Diablo 3.

See, it's not about you and your bad luck. It's about the average of everyone that runs these things. Not everyone is as sadly lacking of good drops as you are.

Cherry picking one player's performance to bolster your argument is hardly meaningful of anything. Just a waste of forum space.

Mr Epeen Cool


This from the people who have posted no evidence at all to back up their claims.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2157 - 2014-02-03 19:55:29 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Hell Ball wrote:

..............But they still happen tho...............


The last two faction drops I have had dropped tags and ammo.

Most faction mods that drop are junk, so yea it might happen but its not going to make any difference to your isk/hr.


That's the same thinking that killed Diablo 3.

See, it's not about you and your bad luck. It's about the average of everyone that runs these things. Not everyone is as sadly lacking of good drops as you are.

Cherry picking one player's performance to bolster your argument is hardly meaningful of anything. Just a waste of forum space.

Mr Highsec Pubbie Cool


We've got an entire forum devoted to the terrible drops an FSP will give you. Most people get crap, few people get good stuff hence why the price of the goods hasn't plummeted since the supply would be considerably higher if it was as all you highsec pubbies claim it is.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#2158 - 2014-02-03 19:55:50 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
See, it's not about you and your bad luck. It's about the average of everyone that runs these things. Not everyone is as sadly lacking of good drops as you are.


Ok, tell us about your faction drops in nullsec. The more the merrier (and the more accurate).

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2159 - 2014-02-03 19:59:18 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


How is 40% earning at best is more ISK again?
When you talk average anoms being 70-90, I must tell you that average missions are 30-35. Try Buzz Kill. 4 battleships and zomgwtfcrapload of elite frigs with 25k bounty. And it's about 3 times more common than extravaganzas and blockades combined.
Anoms are harvestable in Oracles with not even 100mil in ship+fittings. 10% of your bs. And you're virtually safe from gankers being able to dock up on sight, you won't get anywhere near that level of safety in hisec mission hubs.

Another session of goon math and I will follow the advice of not responding to you.


You are wrong and you have not read the sheet. The average anomaly was ~29m.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing

Re-linked again, you highsec pubbies have no excuse for not reading it and continuing to spout your crap.



You can link stuff till you turn blue, high sec isn't interested in the truth (though the should be, because in their short sightedness fail to understand how a proper risk/reward balance benefits them as much as everyone else*). Malcanis once introduced me to an Upton Sinclair quote that sums the high sec attitude perfectly:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”


*The funny thing is that the current imblance hurts high sec as much as other places. The imblance leads to LOT more people on incursion wait lists than there should be, lots more incursion contests (because people branch out into other communities in hopes of getting into a fleet) which leads to much more incursion drama (moms getting popped early when one side keeps losing contests).

And that's just incursions. People who'd rather be pve-ing in null if it was worth it are all over empire doing all sorts of things, lowering the values of those things for the people who actually live there.

You'd think that one day at least 1 person in high sec would smarten up and realize that null sec people having incentive to actually be in null ( rather than playing on high sec alts because the mouse always goes where the cheese is) would make their own gameplay experience better. But no, in an epic display of short sightedness, they defend a status quo that screws them as much as it screws us. They are brilliant.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2160 - 2014-02-03 19:59:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Hell Ball wrote:

..............But they still happen tho...............


The last two faction drops I have had dropped tags and ammo.

Most faction mods that drop are junk, so yea it might happen but its not going to make any difference to your isk/hr.


That's the same thinking that killed Diablo 3.

See, it's not about you and your bad luck. It's about the average of everyone that runs these things. Not everyone is as sadly lacking of good drops as you are.

Cherry picking one player's performance to bolster your argument is hardly meaningful of anything. Just a waste of forum space.

Mr Epeen Cool


This from the people who have posted no evidence at all to back up their claims.
I ain't people, yo. I is Mr Epeen! No one else quite like me around here.

Mr Epeen Cool