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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2081 - 2014-02-03 13:40:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Good Posting wrote:
"A foothold in null sec" Lol

No, they rent because they can make isk when they want without having to attend to alliance/coalition fleets. No paplinks, no diplo dramas, no tidi, no deployments. Just farming.


They can make more in high sec than null. There are other reasons for wanting to come to null, mostly to do with easy access to pvp.



Considering I have in my corp far better PVP in REAL TIME and at interesting scale.... find it hard to believe. (and no 20 people is NOT small scale pvp, its already a blob)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2082 - 2014-02-03 13:43:34 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

They can make more in high sec than null. There are other reasons for wanting to come to null, mostly to do with easy access to pvp.


That is so misingoonpretated...

I came to null only because there was no chance in hell I could keep making it even seem comparable with null income in hisec, provided I didn't want to run SOE like crazy.

I made billions in null WAY easier than it was possible in hisec. And I avoided every PvP attempt made at me. Should there be a PvP-free null region you'd see it populated like crazy. And we have one such region up north, and it is populated like crazy.

Once again, for goons, there are no ways to match nullsec crazy ISK even if you farm like mad in hisec. If you're too goon to make ISK in null, that is your damn fault, and not the fact that hisec ISK making is generally tuned toward newer players, and comes in basically one variation (had 3 variations before odyssey. RIP hisec. Well, Fozzie happens.), which can be burned away by having as little as 3 suicide gank squads, because doing it requires investments which are covered by tens of hours, and should you lose those investments, you have nothing left to take them back with, since less investments have even less payoff and require even more time to cover them.

Now compare that to null ratting, where the only investment is a rent (perfectly split-able), and utterly disposable (insurance derp) meta-fit oracles with next to no cost and skill requirements compared to L4 boats.

There's so much disparity that I won't be surprised that nullsec will become the starting area, and you'll have to do years of training and ratting before you get the ISK and skills required to do an L4 with comparable efficiency or run hisec incursions, therefore justifying living in hisec, which is currently unjustifiably low on income until you have the means to do the only remaining ISK-making activity proficiently.


Lets see some of these numbers. Because right now all evidence shows that high sec is much better than null.



Didnt saw a SINGLE evidence.... saw fabricated numbers on theoretical scenarios. Show me a wallet log of a character that consistently for 3-4 hours made more isk in L4s than you can make in 0.0

Anything else is not evidence....

Leavign incursions out of this, sicne they do more than L4, but then you can run incursiosn in 0.0 and do even more.... so we woudl get in no place with that in discussion.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2083 - 2014-02-03 13:49:31 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Good Posting wrote:
"A foothold in null sec" Lol

No, they rent because they can make isk when they want without having to attend to alliance/coalition fleets. No paplinks, no diplo dramas, no tidi, no deployments. Just farming.


They can make more in high sec than null. There are other reasons for wanting to come to null, mostly to do with easy access to pvp.



Considering I have in my corp far better PVP in REAL TIME and at interesting scale.... find it hard to believe. (and no 20 people is NOT small scale pvp, its already a blob)


That is small scale pvp and has been for about 5 years now. Roaming gangs can number up to 50-70 ships these days.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2084 - 2014-02-03 13:54:01 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:


Didnt saw a SINGLE evidence.... saw fabricated numbers on theoretical scenarios. Show me a wallet log of a character that consistently for 3-4 hours made more isk in L4s than you can make in 0.0

Anything else is not evidence....

Leavign incursions out of this, sicne they do more than L4, but then you can run incursiosn in 0.0 and do even more.... so we woudl get in no place with that in discussion.


You havent even read any of the spreasheets have you?

Also, as we pointed out way back at the start of this thread, nobody runs incursions in null other than to remove them from a sensitive area.
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#2085 - 2014-02-03 13:56:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Mistah Ewedynao
Quote:
What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?


You will coninue to see less and less people logging in, as you are seeing now due to the high sec nerfing that has already happened.

I lost 2 friends totaling 7 PAYING accounts just due to the high sec exploration nerfing/noobisizing.

You've already lost 5 paying accounts of mine due to your Goon favoritism.

Keep taking Goon advice CCP and eve numbers will be right inline with Dust.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2086 - 2014-02-03 14:04:25 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Quote:
What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?


You will coninue to see less and less people logging in, as you are seeing now due to the high sec nerfing that has already happened.

I lost 2 friends totaling 7 PAYING accounts just due to the high sec exploration nerfing/noobisizing.

You've already lost 5 paying accounts of mine due to your Goon favoritism.

Keep taking Goon advice CCP and eve numbers will be right inline with Dust.


Just like when CCP massivly nerfed incursions and "everyone" threatened to quit. Several months later CCP reported record subs. These hollow threats wont work, you wont quit, you will simply move onto whatever the next golden goose is.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2087 - 2014-02-03 14:10:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:


Didnt saw a SINGLE evidence.... saw fabricated numbers on theoretical scenarios. Show me a wallet log of a character that consistently for 3-4 hours made more isk in L4s than you can make in 0.0

Anything else is not evidence....

Leavign incursions out of this, sicne they do more than L4, but then you can run incursiosn in 0.0 and do even more.... so we woudl get in no place with that in discussion.


You havent even read any of the spreasheets have you?

Also, as we pointed out way back at the start of this thread, nobody runs incursions in null other than to remove them from a sensitive area.



So if you do nto want to run the highest level of income available for you.. its your fault hat the income is not as large as expeted. It snot ccp fault. Your fault.

Your spreadsheets are NOT evidence, they are fabricated numbers that do not sustian themselves in reality on long periods of time.

Evidence would be screenshot of wallet logs ONLY that.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2088 - 2014-02-03 14:11:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Good Posting wrote:
"A foothold in null sec" Lol

No, they rent because they can make isk when they want without having to attend to alliance/coalition fleets. No paplinks, no diplo dramas, no tidi, no deployments. Just farming.


They can make more in high sec than null. There are other reasons for wanting to come to null, mostly to do with easy access to pvp.



Considering I have in my corp far better PVP in REAL TIME and at interesting scale.... find it hard to believe. (and no 20 people is NOT small scale pvp, its already a blob)


That is small scale pvp and has been for about 5 years now. Roaming gangs can number up to 50-70 ships these days.



Sad for you, because that is crap PVP for me. Anything over 10 on one side is not worth to waste my time on. I therefore have better PVP than you have in null sec.

I pity your renters if they think that is entretaining...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Bartholomew Templaris
Ordo Templaris Industries
#2089 - 2014-02-03 14:13:35 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
everything the OP said would happen, but to a lesser extent than he says. Bots would still be rampant in highsec, and there would still be huge numbers of carebear noobs who don't know how to play the game.

If highsec income were cut hugely at the highest points, say 75% less income from incursion vanguards in highsec and 50% less incoming DPS, no more incursions other than vanguards in highsec, no more level 4 missions in highsec, the top anomalies give 50% less income in highsec -- and if resource generation were reduced greatly, say 50% less PI yield in highsec, no plasma planets in highsec, no ores above omber and kernite in highsec and those only available in small quantities in grav sites you have to scan down, and 33% less tritanium and pyerite from veldspar and scordite which would be the only ores available in large quantities in asteroid belts in highsec...

then people would get by easily in highsec still. Many would seek the greater fortunes to be had outside of highsec as well as the greater challenges to be had out there. But there would still be plenty of people content to bask in what highsec still has to offer: that is enough ISK to pay for the cruisers and battlecruisers they use to run level 3 missions, enough ISK to pay for the mining barges they use to mine veldspar and scordite, enough ISK to pay for the ships they use to run the nerfed incursion vanguards, and more ISK from PI sales than the cost of exporting the goods. In short, highsec living will still be viable, therefore people will still do it.


____________________________________


Good points, but why not make it more attractive to be in Low or Null Sec. Right now, there is no real advantage to mining in low sec because the risks outweigh the profits. Null sec I just stay away from, but honestly, PVP is way too complicated for those of us who have not been doing it from the beginning. Ive been playing for 2 years and rarely even go to Low Sec as I see no reason.

You need high sec the way it is because CCP is in it to profit. Making high Sec more difficult, would keep new players from playing. Eve as it is is geared mainly to long time high end players and those Noobs are the financial bread and butter for CCP.

Personally if you eliminated PVP from .6 and higher space, I would have no complaints, but I know that is not realistic. Wars....stupid! I pay to play the game and when you are at war and not trained in PVP, you sit for a week doing nothing because your mining ships or industrials are sitting ducks. A waste of time and money in my opinion. But that is how CCp makes its money.

It sucks when you got these guys with Battleships taking out mining frigates, just because they can....yeah, real tough. PVP is fun, I am trying to learn it, but leave that to null sec. Have all the PVP you want ... against other players that want it!. Some people just arent into it and want a safe place to play the game that they also pay to play.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2090 - 2014-02-03 14:17:33 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Good Posting wrote:
"A foothold in null sec" Lol

No, they rent because they can make isk when they want without having to attend to alliance/coalition fleets. No paplinks, no diplo dramas, no tidi, no deployments. Just farming.


They can make more in high sec than null. There are other reasons for wanting to come to null, mostly to do with easy access to pvp.



Considering I have in my corp far better PVP in REAL TIME and at interesting scale.... find it hard to believe. (and no 20 people is NOT small scale pvp, its already a blob)


That is small scale pvp and has been for about 5 years now. Roaming gangs can number up to 50-70 ships these days.



Sad for you, because that is crap PVP for me. Anything over 10 on one side is not worth to waste my time on. I therefore have better PVP than you have in null sec.

I pity your renters if they think that is entretaining...


When was the last time your fight made the international news? I have been in several.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2091 - 2014-02-03 14:24:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


When was the last time your fight made the international news? I have been in several.


Justin Bieber makes into international news more than you.. by your own standards that makes you a pretty worthless thing....

Maybe you shoudl get Paris Hilton into CFC.... if that is what you consider to have fun...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2092 - 2014-02-03 14:28:08 UTC
Quote:



So if you do nto want to run the highest level of income available for you.. its your fault hat the income is not as large as expeted. It snot ccp fault. Your fault.

Your spreadsheets are NOT evidence, they are fabricated numbers that do not sustian themselves in reality on long periods of time.

Evidence would be screenshot of wallet logs ONLY that.


And how will screenshots of our wallets show us how much LP we earned? How will they show how many mission we have run? Or how long they took? Or how much time we spent in warp?

Wallet screenshots are useless. But please, feel free to hit null sec and run anoms.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2093 - 2014-02-03 14:29:53 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


When was the last time your fight made the international news? I have been in several.


Justin Bieber makes into international news more than you.. by your own standards that makes you a pretty worthless thing....

Maybe you shoudl get Paris Hilton into CFC.... if that is what you consider to have fun...


If we were not having fun our corp would not have lived in null space for the last 7 years.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#2094 - 2014-02-03 14:32:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Yonis Zanjoahir wrote:
You must be joking. The majority of illegal isk in EvE comes from nullsec, and null is where most isk sellers are based.
How do you know this?

Quote:
Null sov players aren't looking for small gang PvP
…and how do you know this?


Tippia, your level of sense-making and reasonry is TOO DAMN HIGH!!!

Thank me later :D
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2095 - 2014-02-03 14:40:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:



So if you do nto want to run the highest level of income available for you.. its your fault hat the income is not as large as expeted. It snot ccp fault. Your fault.

Your spreadsheets are NOT evidence, they are fabricated numbers that do not sustian themselves in reality on long periods of time.

Evidence would be screenshot of wallet logs ONLY that.


And how will screenshots of our wallets show us how much LP we earned? How will they show how many mission we have run? Or how long they took? Or how much time we spent in warp?

Wallet screenshots are useless. But please, feel free to hit null sec and run anoms.



No they are not. because a wallet screenshot of journal will show all money that you gained in X hours. Then you summ with the incomes you PROVE you made trought again wallet journal of sales of the LP.

It doe not matter how much time you spent in Warp. All that matter is How much money you can make in 1 day playing. Only that... everything else is crap talk!

All the values you are trying to throw are lies and unsustainable for reasonable periods of time, and n either you can sell stuff for the LP price you suggest (except on first weeks of new faction ships or module introduced). The highest HS LP income is from nomad sets and they sell like 1 per day in all high sec!

Btw.. lol goons whining because they are too risk adverse for 0.0 PVE.. lol great overlords you are... that doe snto sound well for your renter program.. if you cannot even protect yourself...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2096 - 2014-02-03 14:40:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


When was the last time your fight made the international news? I have been in several.


Justin Bieber makes into international news more than you.. by your own standards that makes you a pretty worthless thing....

Maybe you shoudl get Paris Hilton into CFC.... if that is what you consider to have fun...


If we were not having fun our corp would not have lived in null space for the last 7 years.



Point remaisn you do not need to go to 0.0 for pvp. Peopel go for 0.0 for isk making! Even your advertisement says that!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2097 - 2014-02-03 14:47:07 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


When was the last time your fight made the international news? I have been in several.


Justin Bieber makes into international news more than you.. by your own standards that makes you a pretty worthless thing....

Maybe you shoudl get Paris Hilton into CFC.... if that is what you consider to have fun...


If we were not having fun our corp would not have lived in null space for the last 7 years.



Point remaisn you do not need to go to 0.0 for pvp. Peopel go for 0.0 for isk making! Even your advertisement says that!


More ships are killed in null than any other area of space by a long way. So yea, null is where you go to get the best fights.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#2098 - 2014-02-03 14:48:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Basil Pupkin
Just to keep people joining the thread updated on the current state of affairs.

Goons: "omg omg you can theoretically with luck and assumptions make 110mil ISK/hour in hisec, my average null income is only 150m/hour NERF HISEC"
Voice of Reason: "Why do you compare maximum hisec ISK/hour with average nullsec ISK/hour? Want us to tell you how much maximum nullsec ISK/hour you can make theoretically with luck and assumptions?"
Goons: "But hisec *goon personal attack generator* are making ISK! HISEC SHOULD MAKE 50% OF NULLSEC ISK!".
Voice of Reason: "In that case hisec income needs to be buffed by about 100% to match 50% of nullsec."
Goons: "Millions of goons can't be wrong, because we're too cool to be wrong, means you're wrong. You're missing the point. HISEC DARES TO MAKE ISK! NERF HISEC!"

This has been going in circles every 7 pages or so.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2099 - 2014-02-03 14:57:30 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:



So if you do nto want to run the highest level of income available for you.. its your fault hat the income is not as large as expeted. It snot ccp fault. Your fault.

Your spreadsheets are NOT evidence, they are fabricated numbers that do not sustian themselves in reality on long periods of time.

Evidence would be screenshot of wallet logs ONLY that.


And how will screenshots of our wallets show us how much LP we earned? How will they show how many mission we have run? Or how long they took? Or how much time we spent in warp?

Wallet screenshots are useless. But please, feel free to hit null sec and run anoms.



No they are not. because a wallet screenshot of journal will show all money that you gained in X hours. Then you summ with the incomes you PROVE you made trought again wallet journal of sales of the LP.

It doe not matter how much time you spent in Warp. All that matter is How much money you can make in 1 day playing. Only that... everything else is crap talk!

All the values you are trying to throw are lies and unsustainable for reasonable periods of time, and n either you can sell stuff for the LP price you suggest (except on first weeks of new faction ships or module introduced). The highest HS LP income is from nomad sets and they sell like 1 per day in all high sec!

Btw.. lol goons whining because they are too risk adverse for 0.0 PVE.. lol great overlords you are... that doe snto sound well for your renter program.. if you cannot even protect yourself...


Its clear nothing we post will ever please you as you clearly have a bias to my alliance ticker. But my offer still stands, go into null sec space, run anoms and then provide us screenshots of several hours of income ticks.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#2100 - 2014-02-03 15:03:52 UTC
Bartholomew Templaris wrote:
Personally if you eliminated PVP from .6 and higher space, I would have no complaints


So you'd be fine with removing mining, mission running, exploration, manufacturing, research and markets from those systems? What would really be the point in keeping the space in that case?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff