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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#2001 - 2014-02-02 22:57:20 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
http://jestertrek.blogspot.ca/

Peruse some of his posts about the latest CSM Summit.
Everything is heavily NDA'ed, but he makes it clear a game mechanic is changing that is going to anger a lot of people, and that is only a 1st step.

Go back farther about a month to 6 weeks, and buried deep, you will find a post by Jester about how the new direction of Eve is not for everyone who plays now, and they will be left behind.

Add in CCP's crap about the empires and crossing the Rubicon, and it is pretty clear who is losing out here.


Yeah well, I for one hope it has to do with some mechanic that forcibly splits up the large nullsec coalitions that have turned all of nullsec into carebear borefest blueville.

Kind of like how large monopolies/oligopolies get split up IRL.

Can you imagine the tears? Shocked


Except the bolded part doesn't actually happen and if it did concord would have to be busted first.



You must be the worst of your entire propaganda wing.
I suppose when Ma Bell in the u.s was broken up into baby bell's , that never happened.

But yes, the changes coming will enhance the goons' stranglehold on the game, not weaken it.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2002 - 2014-02-02 23:02:18 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
http://jestertrek.blogspot.ca/

Peruse some of his posts about the latest CSM Summit.
Everything is heavily NDA'ed, but he makes it clear a game mechanic is changing that is going to anger a lot of people, and that is only a 1st step.

Go back farther about a month to 6 weeks, and buried deep, you will find a post by Jester about how the new direction of Eve is not for everyone who plays now, and they will be left behind.

Add in CCP's crap about the empires and crossing the Rubicon, and it is pretty clear who is losing out here.


Yeah well, I for one hope it has to do with some mechanic that forcibly splits up the large nullsec coalitions that have turned all of nullsec into carebear borefest blueville.

Kind of like how large monopolies/oligopolies get split up IRL.

Can you imagine the tears? Shocked


Except the bolded part doesn't actually happen and if it did concord would have to be busted first.


CONCORD is the equivalent of basically the government - so no, your example does not hold.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2003 - 2014-02-02 23:06:27 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:



You must be the worst of your entire propaganda wing.
I suppose when Ma Bell in the u.s was broken up into baby bell's , that never happened.

But yes, the changes coming will enhance the goons' stranglehold on the game, not weaken it.


dinsdale tears fofofo!

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2004 - 2014-02-02 23:07:46 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:


CONCORD is the equivalent of basically the government - so no, your example does not hold.


No CONCORD is a multinational corporation, so it still holds.

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Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2005 - 2014-02-02 23:11:05 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


CONCORD is the equivalent of basically the government - so no, your example does not hold.


No CONCORD is a multinational corporation, so it still holds.


Uh. What?

Yeah, a multinational "corporation" with police rights and the final say on who lives and who dies.

Sounds like the government to me.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2006 - 2014-02-02 23:11:16 UTC
Pius Rova wrote:
I think the power of 23 and the revenue it generates from players who want a separate alt for everything from scamming corporations to wiping their nose is CCP's answer to that.


I think that the PO2 reached it's alt max a while ago.

For the last year or two it has been used primarily as an income tool for character farmers. There's a guy with at least 30 characters for sale and many with less. Thing is, once everyone has their mains and alts, there is no one to buy these characters and PO2 flounders as an income tool. The CB is already starting to back up with characters not selling for months. PO2 sales, I suspect, are way down from where they were.

At some point, CCP is going to have to realize that milking the player base is not working any more and start supplying content to attract actual new people to the game.

Nerfing high sec is not conducive to attracting new people to the game. Expanding it is.

Mr Epeen Cool
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2007 - 2014-02-02 23:17:22 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


CONCORD is the equivalent of basically the government - so no, your example does not hold.


No CONCORD is a multinational corporation, so it still holds.


Uh. What?

Yeah, a multinational "corporation" with police rights and the final say on who lives and who dies.

Sounds like the government to me.

CONCORD doesn't kill anyone.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#2008 - 2014-02-02 23:21:42 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Then why do you keep posting?
I refrained from posting in this thread for quite some time, thinking it would go away.

But lo and behold the same null sec propagandists keep hammering away.
I thought, what the hell, post some truths, and I can look back on them in a few months and shrug and say, well, I was right, again.

I figure your plan is to keep hammering away with your lies until the changes are announced, and say , "see, all our posting made CCP make game mechanic changes as they saw the light. "

But those summer changes have already been announced to the CSM, so this must be part of your propaganda campaign for the continuation of the high sec nerf with the winter changes.

Us nullsec zealots get paid per post. The more you respond the richer we get. Twisted
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2009 - 2014-02-02 23:33:54 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


CONCORD is the equivalent of basically the government - so no, your example does not hold.


No CONCORD is a multinational corporation, so it still holds.


Uh. What?

Yeah, a multinational "corporation" with police rights and the final say on who lives and who dies.

Sounds like the government to me.


Sounds more like an oil corp in poor African countries to me.

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Deriah Book
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2010 - 2014-02-02 23:58:29 UTC
Gee Whizz....

So much arguing and so little playing.

Have any of you even tried blapping CONCORD in 0.5 since the last patch?

Didn't think so.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#2011 - 2014-02-03 00:30:00 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

It was a good thread that was going places until you highsec pubbies returned. This is more evidence that highsec pubbies should not be allowed to post and that the ISDs need to get goons into their ranks to clean up this cesspit.


Goony pls


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2012 - 2014-02-03 01:01:54 UTC
Either way it's splitting hairs.
ashley Eoner
#2013 - 2014-02-03 01:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Onictus wrote:
Either way it's splitting hairs.
Yeah why let facts get in the way of a discussion and stuff...


EDIT : 1.4 billion in two modules alone is a bit more then "a bit of bling".
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2014 - 2014-02-03 03:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Alright the first test is complete.

Was done using a common ratting type, ishtar ratting.

[Ishtar, PVE - Ishtar]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Shield Power Relay II

Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Large Shield Extender II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Large Shield Extender II

Drone Link Augmentor II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II

Wasp II x5

The raw data with some light analysis:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing

E: It shows average nullsec ratting income to be ~70m/hr. (When uninterrupted)

E2: Meaningful skills:

Drone Interfacing 5,
Heavies 5,
Caldari Drone Specialization 4,
All other drone supports 5,
Navigation supports 4,
Shield supports 5,
Cap supports 5,
Fitting supports 5,
Rigging 4.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2015 - 2014-02-03 04:11:14 UTC
So now we have the mid-range solo PVE activity of nullsec sitting at ~70m isk/hr and the mid-range solo PVE activity of highsec sitting at ~100m isk/hr. What more we need if we can get two volunteers to do this is someone to do belt ratting in nullsec and active battleship or carrier ratting in nullsec. To give us a positive/negative control.

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stoicfaux
#2016 - 2014-02-03 04:12:56 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

E: It shows average nullsec ratting income to be ~70m/hr.

70M/hour if you're uninterrupted.

Just for shiggles, if I set my Mach spreadsheet to 0 isk/LP, I'm looking at ~33M isk/hour (adjusted for warp speed nerf,) with 39% bounties, 60% mission rewards, and 1% loot. I'm beginning to wonder if we need a level 4 test run that focuses on isk (bounties+rewards) instead of blitzing for LP.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2017 - 2014-02-03 04:14:15 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

E: It shows average nullsec ratting income to be ~70m/hr.

70M/hour if you're uninterrupted.

Just for shiggles, if I set my Mach spreadsheet to 0 isk/LP, I'm looking at ~33M isk/hour (adjusted for warp speed nerf,) with 39% bounties, 60% mission rewards, and 1% loot. I'm beginning to wonder if we need a level 4 test run that focuses on isk (bounties+rewards) instead of blizing for LP.



Yep if you look at my notes we had an AFK cloaker and a blops gang about that interrupted it. The more tests we have the better we can compare the two income sources.

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2018 - 2014-02-03 04:19:19 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

E: It shows average nullsec ratting income to be ~70m/hr.
.

It shows the Average Anom to be 70m/hr ISK.
You however deliberately did not use the ESS to give yourself an extra 5% isk & 15% LP for starters, potentially an extra 20% isk & 20% LP.
In fact an extra 40% LP if we use the matching 2000isk/lp figure you are basing your high sec figures on (Which is not an average LP figure anyway.)

So, before we take loot into account we are already up to 105m/hr on your middle of the road figure and your high end figure of 100 similarly jumps to 150/hr using the same basis.

And you are only using a basic T2 HAC here. Go use the same HAC in high sec and you will see much lower figures than the high sec figures you have been touting. Not a bling fit. So you are failing in doing a decent comparison and deliberately loading your data.

Seriously, at least 'try'. It's blatantly obvious you are attempting to make your Null results as bad as possible, and they are still competitive.
We haven't even looked at the potential loot value here or Escalations which give better loot. Though I'm guessing your claim will be that they don't count either because you don't get them every time.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2019 - 2014-02-03 04:25:14 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

E: It shows average nullsec ratting income to be ~70m/hr.
.

It shows the Average Anom to be 70m/hr ISK.
You however deliberately did not use the ESS to give yourself an extra 5% isk & 15% LP for starters, potentially an extra 20% isk & 20% LP.
In fact an extra 40% LP if we use the matching 2000isk/lp figure you are basing your high sec figures on (Which is not an average LP figure anyway.)

So, before we take loot into account we are already up to 105m/hr on your middle of the road figure and your high end figure of 100 similarly jumps to 150/hr using the same basis.

And you are only using a basic T2 HAC here. Go use the same HAC in high sec and you will see much lower figures than the high sec figures you have been touting. Not a bling fit. So you are failing in doing a decent comparison and deliberately loading your data.

Seriously, at least 'try'. It's blatantly obvious you are attempting to make your Null results as bad as possible, and they are still competitive.
We haven't even looked at the potential loot value here or Escalations which give better loot. Though I'm guessing your claim will be that they don't count either because you don't get them every time.


No if you look at the sheet and the formula it takes ((total bounty isk) / (time in minutes /wo lag time * (1 hour / 60 minutes))) to get isk / hours. How the hell can you not do conversion factors and understand basic math?

E: I am watching this sheet too and you haven't even looked at it.

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2020 - 2014-02-03 04:27:38 UTC
La Nariz wrote:


No if you look at the sheet and the formula it takes ((total bounty isk)/ (time in minutes /wo lag time * (1 hour / 60 minutes)) to get isk / hours. How the hell can you not do conversion factors and understand basic math?

I understand common maths.
You apparently do not understand scientific testing, and data set controls.
You do however seem to understand deliberately lowering your results by doing things in inefficient ways.