These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

It's about time Autopilot warp to zero.

First post
Author
Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#81 - 2011-11-08 02:47:23 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
Zions Child wrote:
APWTZ isn't faster, but it allows you to multitask more efficiently, which I'm opposed to in EVE.

7/10 I'm actually mad. There's a reason your Eve interface resembles an OS UI that was originally designed explicitly for multitasking.


It allows you to multitask by literally not paying any attention to what is going on on the screen. Multitasking is fine. Occasionally looking away from chat or market to right click warp click jump is not a lot of work, so why make it that extra step easier. Plus, it makes booting ever so much more simple.
Famble
Three's a Crowd
#82 - 2011-11-08 02:49:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Famble
You could make it fee based in some way perhaps.

You can warp to zero if you pay a monthly fee to Concord or whomever owns the gate. Make it exponentially more expensive as you increase the gate express passes you currently lease.

I won't lie, I'd be interested in some sort of middle ground as I see both sides of the issue. But I also don't necessarily hate the current implementation for gameplay reasons; I can always find something else to do around the house when I have to move multiple ships to a new location via hi-sec on AP.

I do HATE the lack of AP WTZ it for immersion reasons though. Current jet-liners practically AFK from the moment they're ready for takeoff till the moment they start taxing towards the gate after landing but for some reason my faster-than-light, laser shooting, immortal capsuleer piloted starship can't figure out how to solve that 15km buffer riddle when on autopilot.

If anyone ever looks at you and says,_ "Hold my beer, watch this,"_  you're probably going to want to pay attention.

BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#83 - 2011-11-08 02:49:54 UTC
1) I picked an overly ridiculous analogy on purpose, because that's what this change sounds like to most people, but fine, instant transportation provided that the ship you were docked in was transportation ship (which CCP replaces the freighter with) and the place you were moving to was only X number of jumps away. Fixed. Continue adding stuff, I'll continue fixing the analogy, but in the end it's just as ridiculous as before because it destroys the gameplay, that's what your asking for. Maybe not for yourself, but for someone. If you want to find that someone, this topic is littered with them.

2) I've known people that enjoyed mining, they found it relaxing to sit at their keyboard and watch rocks melt. Don't ask me why, but if any of them would have suggested that it's repetitive and you might as well automate it nobody would have taken them seriously. Same here. Your asking for automation so that you don't have to sit at your keyboard and actually participate in the game. You want the same reward for less risk. Barring other people that want the same risk free environment why should anyone agree with you? Is there a broken game mechanic? Does it introduce more variety, more granularity into the sandbox? Does it increase our options in this universe and/or decrease the amount of influence CCP puts into the game? No, no, and no.

3) Yes they would. As I pointed out, autopilot in it's current form doesn't only slow you down on the one gate your on, but gives them time to follow you, plan your route, setup a trap, and gank you in it. This planning time is completely removed and your only hope is to catch them on the end. Some people maybe, I know most (the smart ones anyway) would figure out the time their route took, a program could be setup to calculate it if it's constantly changing, and set a timer, come back to the keyboard 30 seconds before you arrive at your destination. Your still not at the keyboard at all, it completely defeats the purpose of playing the game if all you do is come back every hour when you reach terminal station, unload, and set off again.

And no, we aren't (or at least I'm not) taking their desires into priority, I'm just saying that it should be recognized that they have valid arguments against it and you really have no valid arguments for it.

4) And so did warp to 0 :) it was before my time, and apparently before yours. There was a time when there was NO warp to 0, on autopilot or manual. People created thousands of bookmarks covering entire regions. CCP realized this was tedious and affected the server and so added warp to 0. You just have to be at your keyboard to use it. Also, PI (even after rework) is still a nap fest to me.
Zircon Dasher
#84 - 2011-11-08 02:50:29 UTC
Went and made popcorn before clicking thread.

Was good idea.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.

Aargolos
Estrale Frontiers
#85 - 2011-11-08 02:50:56 UTC
As a "high sec carebear" I say leave it as is.

If your ship and/or cargo is that valuable, then pay attention and fly it manually.

Empire is safe enough...there should be some room for "error" and facepalm moments.
Black Dranzer
#86 - 2011-11-08 02:51:31 UTC
Zions Child wrote:
Occasionally looking away from chat or market to right click warp click jump is not a lot of work, so why make it that extra step easier.

Because it's tedious and unnecessary, to change it would probably take around 5 minutes (and about 4:30 of that would be actually finding the line of code), it would benefit a large group of people, it'd increase newbie retention, and it has no practical drawbacks.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2011-11-08 02:52:49 UTC
Aargolos wrote:
As a "high sec carebear" I say leave it as is.

If your ship and/or cargo is that valuable, then pay attention and fly it manually.

Empire is safe enough...there should be some room for "error" and facepalm moments.


you just trollin? I cant believe my eyes,,, a highsec carebear with a brain... what?

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Lexmana
#88 - 2011-11-08 02:53:35 UTC
Don't stop with warp to zero. Why not also auto MWD+cloak and dock at final destination. I know you want it soon.
Aargolos
Estrale Frontiers
#89 - 2011-11-08 02:57:39 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Aargolos wrote:
As a "high sec carebear" I say leave it as is.

If your ship and/or cargo is that valuable, then pay attention and fly it manually.

Empire is safe enough...there should be some room for "error" and facepalm moments.


you just trollin? I cant believe my eyes,,, a highsec carebear with a brain... what?



Yes yes, nobody's troll alt here.

I "survived" the learning cliff 2 years ago and enjoy some losec pew pew just as much as anyone.

No Drakes or Tengu's here.

"In Rust We Trust".

Black Dranzer
#90 - 2011-11-08 02:57:47 UTC
BeanBagKing wrote:


1 would still destroy the local economy, 2 was primarily a joke.

As for 3, they wouldn't have to go to all that trouble after the change, they'd just find AFK people sitting on a gate and gank them. Or would that be too easy for the suicide gankers?

And as for 4, I'm a 2005 guy, I know all about warp to 15. That was back in the day when your autopilot warped to 15 because the closest you could warp to anything was 15. Why do people willfully ignore the fact that warp-to-zero bookmarks were effectively an exploit?
Black Dranzer
#91 - 2011-11-08 03:00:08 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Don't stop with warp to zero. Why not also auto MWD+cloak and dock at final destination. I know you want it soon.

Okay, I warned people not to start with the slippery slope ****.

Okay, the V3 project which involves reworking all the new ships visually is a bad idea.

See, it starts with the V3 project, and then that'll raise subscriber numbers, and that'll encourage CCP to invest more and more in improved visuals, which will eventually lead to a dominant investment in visuals, which will eventually lead to a TOTAL investment in visuals, and CCP will move to creating 3D movies and Eve Online as a game will die out.

SUPPORT EVE GAMEPLAY, BAN THE CONDOR REDESIGN.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#92 - 2011-11-08 03:02:09 UTC
Back before warp to zero existed, 15km was the closest you could get to a gate. Basically the same as autopilot now, but it was also the closest you could get manually flying as well.

We all started to find creative ways around this. Namely, the insta bookmarks, that everybody seemed to use after awhile. (Hell I made billions selling bookmark sets on escrow)

The problem with this was that it was entirely common for EVE players to have thousands of bookmarks in their people and places folder. So much, that when opening the folder, it was like a lag bomb where you could do nothing until they finished loading.

Some even more creative players found ways to use these vast amounts of BM's in cans and whatnot as intentional lag bombs to turn battle in their favor.

As it turns out, the sheer amount of people with these INSTA's as we called them, were causing quite a bit of DB strain on CCP's end.

CCP never wanted people to warp to zero, even on manual flight, but they did so anyhow in order to get rid of the bookmarks that were causing so many problems. People were up in arms at the thought of removing the bookmarks but not also implementing a warp to zero in the game itself.

On the flip side, pirates and the like were up in arms over BM's but didn't want CCP to allow warp to zero either.

There was a compromise in the end, and that is where we are now. WTZ exists in the game, but it was a reluctant change and not something everybody wanted. The compromise as I mentioned was to not allow it during AP.
Black Dranzer
#93 - 2011-11-08 03:05:39 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
CCP never wanted people to warp to zero

They why didn't they simply make the 15km distance radial?

As in, you warp to your target, and you come in 15km away in a random direction? There, I just kept WT15 and at the same time destroyed all WTZ bookmarks.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#94 - 2011-11-08 03:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Black Dranzer wrote:
JC Anderson wrote:
CCP never wanted people to warp to zero

They why didn't they simply make the 15km distance radial?

As in, you warp to your target, and you come in 15km away in a random direction? There, I just kept WT15 and at the same time destroyed all WTZ bookmarks.


Hey Im not arguing the lack of logic in their decision. ;) I was around for the WTZ change, and am only speaking on what CCP told us at the time about their reluctance to allow WTZ, and the reasons behind it.

Insta's were a min distance of 15km, but the bookmarks were set 15km BEYOND the gate so you'd land at 15km from the BM, but still in jump distance of the gate.

Though I understand what you mean, and it's something I've always wondered as well. As to why they couldn't just code in something that made landing within a 15km distance of the gate simply impossible regardless of bookmarks.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2011-11-08 03:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
ShahFluffers wrote:
Not being able to warp to zero on autopilot is meant to reward players who actually sit at the keyboard (a reward that comes in the form of less time taken to travel).


There is no reward from sitting in front of the keyboard for +1hr warping to zero +30 jumps depending on what you're flying. If you consider this a reward, then I'd have to conclude that some point in your life you considered a feast to be food scraps from the bottom of a dumpster.

This game needs a serious reduction in micromanagement. Warping to zero is just one issue. It would be much welcomed if CCP did change this. And they could do it in a way to reduce travel time while still retaining campers' ability to get their pound of flesh.

Reductions in player micromanagement would go a long way to improving the attractiveness of this game for new players and old alike.

JC Anderson wrote:
CCP never wanted people to warp to zero


CCP never wanted MT. But that didn't stop them from doing it?

Don't ban me, bro!

Black Dranzer
#96 - 2011-11-08 03:15:47 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
Hey Im not arguing the lack of logic in their decision. ;) I was around for the WTZ change, and am only speaking on what CCP told us at the time about their reluctance to allow WTZ, and the reasons behind it.

Fair enough. Although I still argue that times have changed; We purged learning skills, after all. Of course, APWTZ isn't the same as learning skills: it isn't so obviously "bad", but the point to learn is simply that just because things were different in the past, doesn't mean things shouldn't change. If that were the case, there'd be no patches.

We have to consider not simply why decisions in the past were made. We need to consider the totality of every potential change on its own merits. There's too much of a phobia about change and casualization to the point where you could make it so that every 5 minutes the game client kicked you in the crotch and some people would be sitting there defending the change on the grounds that it makes things more challenging.

Forget the state of the game all those years ago. Let's look at the state of the game now.

I've covered various approaches; Suicide gankers have more and easier potential targets after the change, APWTZ isn't inherently any faster or safer than regular piloting, lowsec/nullsec autopiloters are as rare as yetis.

I'm looking for positions to counter, but so far everybody's just bringing up the same old ones. Does anybody have anything new?
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#97 - 2011-11-08 03:16:29 UTC
aah.. amuzing read =)

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Mal Sandarr
Debaser Monde
#98 - 2011-11-08 03:20:18 UTC
OP, I think you're missing something important about the game.

When I was new to the game I once made 140 jumps (28 each way) in one day hauling my gear to my new corps base in a Wreathe! I did take a break for lunch, though, while in station.

Sure I got a little bored manually WTZ but I was scared shitless the entire time because I was worried about "nasty pirates". I really felt like I was in lawless and harsh universe. That completely sold me on this game.

Of course I now know a lot better about how to haul big loads. I'll leave it to you to work that one out.

Having to do something and to think how your going to do it, to minimise risk, is a very big part of EvE.
Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#99 - 2011-11-08 03:25:39 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
And they could do it in a way to reduce travel time while still retaining campers' ability to get their pound of flesh.




You know what I realized? APWTZ would make the trade centers even MORE crowded, because gankers would all be waiting on gate in Jita &c.

FIGHT JITA LAG, FIGHT APWTZ!
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#100 - 2011-11-08 03:27:33 UTC
Yep, gankers will just wait at the common end-point destinations instead of trying to gank them mid-route. This just puts more gankers at the Jita gates

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP