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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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It's about time Autopilot warp to zero.

First post
Author
Black Dranzer
#61 - 2011-11-08 01:53:09 UTC
Zions Child wrote:
Seriously, there is absolutely no problem with warping the way it is now, you're just a lazy idiot.

I've addressed your other objections in previous posts, but in regards to this, I could've said the same about clickfest-era PI.
Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#62 - 2011-11-08 01:57:58 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
Zions Child wrote:
Seriously, there is absolutely no problem with warping the way it is now, you're just a lazy idiot.

I've addressed your other objections in previous posts, but in regards to this, I could've said the same about clickfest-era PI.


EVE is about risk, people. Deal with it or leave. Hi-sec is pretty damn safe, and pretty conducive to AFKing. AP WTZ would make travel which is already fairly quick even quicker, which is just silly. There is no reason to do it. Sit at your computer and play the game. I haul crap in freighters, it takes forever, its annoying, and it means I have to switch to my other EVE client about once every two minutes. But I still don't think AP WTZ is a good idea. I'm not a huge fan of WTZ.
Black Dranzer
#63 - 2011-11-08 01:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Dranzer
sYnc Vir wrote:
The reason you don't warp to 0 is to punish you for playing the game, while not playing the game.

No, the reason you don't warp to zero on autopilot is because when CCP first implemented warp-to-zero, they weren't certain about the effects it would have on the game. So they left autopilot as warp-to-15.

But, again, times have changed. If CCP really desires to re-add the whole "vulnerability on warpin" mechanic, they should just make warp-in inaccuracy. ie, when you warp in, you land 15km away from your target, but in which direction isn't specified. But I'm guessing they realized that warp-to-15 is actually pretty damned lousy in this day and age. They're probably concerned, as most people are, about if this would make the game "too safe". But the whole premise on APWTZ being "too safe" is based on the premise that there are a ton of people using APWTF. There aren't.
Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#64 - 2011-11-08 01:59:40 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
They're probably concerned, as most people are, about if this would make the game "too safe". But the whole premise on APWTZ being "too safe" is based on the premise that there are a ton of people using APWTF. There aren't.



Are you and I traveling through the same Jita gates? I see tons of people on autopilot.
Aggressive Nutmeg
#65 - 2011-11-08 02:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Aggressive Nutmeg
Shian Yang wrote:
Greetings capsuleer,

This is a mandated safety measure when activating your autopilot.

On crowded gates, especially when moving through high traffic systems such as Jita, CONCORD requires a ship flying on auto-pilot to warp to 15km and approach the gate at sublight speed.

Of course, with the full neural interface of a capsuleer in control of the ship you are allowed to warp to 0km as you have the boosted reactions and decision making to handle those scenarios.

I would caution against relying entirely on the machine. Pilots can adapt; a machine not so readily.

LOL. When travelling long distances I use Autopilot AND Warp to 0.

1. Warp to Zero and hit CTRL-S to activate Autopilot.
2. Do something else on my second monitor.
3. "Autopilot jumping" audio prompts me to return to game.
4. Hit CTRL-S to disable Autopilot.
5. Warp to Zero and hit CTRL-S to activate Autopilot.
6. Do something else on my second monitor.
7. Rinse and repeat...

So much for ensuring the capsuleer is in control of the ship for safety reasons when approaching gates. Jeez I hate roleplaying/backstory crap to explain away annoying 'features'.

But I'm not in favour of autopilot warp to zero, though. That would make things way too easy and destroy a few careers as well. Pirate

Speaking of roleplay crap, when are they going to update the top news item that has been sitting on the website frontpage for 4 months?

11/07/2011
Caldari scientist's defection causes stir amongst sections of capsuleer community.
Oops

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.

Black Dranzer
#66 - 2011-11-08 02:02:54 UTC
Zions Child wrote:
AP WTZ would make travel which is already fairly quick even quicker

.. No?

It'd make AUTOPILOT travel quicker, yes. But it'd be no faster than regular old travel, and given that nobody with a brain uses autopilot anyway, the average travel time is going to be basically identical. There's just going to be more AFK players.

Zions Child wrote:
I haul crap in freighters, it takes forever, its annoying, and it means I have to switch to my other EVE client about once every two minutes.

Okay, so you're defending even though its implementation would directly benefit you. I can respect that. But your fears are unfounded: The false premise is that autopilot is in widespread use. If it was, I'd be inclined to contest APWTZ implementation too. But it isn't. What, exactly, are you contesting?
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#67 - 2011-11-08 02:04:00 UTC
Fille Balle wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Yes, traveling 20 or 30 jumps through highsec is boring.
*ding ding ding* highsec is boring.

Now that we've figured that out, we can maybe grow a pair and check out lowsec and nullsec. 5 jumps through 0.0 space in your hauler isnt as boring. This is where the real eve game is.

Have you ever played Guild Wars? Do you remember Pre-Sear? That is GW equivelent of HIghsec. The game doesnt start untill you are in low/nullsec. If you want to choose to remain in highsec for years and years (or forever) You will need to learn to love it the way it is, and stop crying to have YOUR gameplay style override everyone else's.

This game was designed ground up to be hostile, and unforgiving. If you cant handle that, you need to find a different game.


I'm sorry you feel that highsec is booring. If it's so booring for you, then I think you need to leave highsec. Also, there is no such thing as a real/not real game in eve. It's a sandbox game. There is no end game. The game is whatever you want it to be. The only thing apwt15 is doing right now is making me avoid travelling at all costs.

If I want to stay safe, I know damn well that wtz is not the answer. I've been to lowsec, and I've been to 0.0. Yes, it's fun, but it's time consuming. I don't have that much time to play anymore, and that throws those sort of group activities out the window.

Nope, I never played guild wars. And you say I should stop crying because I want to have my gamestyle override other gamestyles. Well, I'll play it differently. I just don't want other people's playstyles add a timesink to my gamestyle. And it's only there because of lazy gankers whining about it since wtz was introduced.

Removing apwt15 would not i nany way override anyones gamestyle. It would just provide more of a challange.


If its a sandbox game like you say, then why are you so interested in having CCP hack apart the sandbox and fill it with cement to protect your ships in? This **** is literally destroying what made eve unique and awesome. At this rate, i will have nowhere else to play. Eve was the only MMO that provided completely lawless, full-of-risk ruthless environment. Once eve is done converting to this new **** set of rules, there wont be any game to fill the niche that eve once did.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Black Dranzer
#68 - 2011-11-08 02:10:31 UTC
Zions Child wrote:
Are you and I traveling through the same Jita gates? I see tons of people on autopilot.

Heading in, or out? I see the occasional freighter slowboating around, but never in any great capacity. Those who are AFK on a Jita gate aren't necessarily autopiloters; They could just be monitoring the market. In my time in Caldari space, I almost never see a person warp in at 15. The rare occasions I do, it's a freighter who's probably gone to work for X hours.

But even if all this were true, the only thing APWTZ would hurt would be the suicide ganking of 15km freighters.

What, those suicide gankers can't take out a freighter when it's AFK at its destination?
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#69 - 2011-11-08 02:12:34 UTC
Ok, I skimmed the first few pages of this and basically OP and Co.'s only argument was "I don't care what anyone else's profession is" and "I don't want to sit at my keyboard when playing Eve". Sure, you may have phrased it as "autopilot is boring" but that's what your saying. Guess what, if you change it to autopilot warp to 0, autopilot will still be boring, you changed the travel time and removed a big feature for highsec gankers, but it's still boring. If it's still boring then your original goal turns into just a whine about going AFK and being much safer than you already are. Sorry, no.

I haven't lived in highsec in years, so I really couldn't care less about gankers, but I'm firmly on their side here. You may think they can go suck a tailpipe (as one of your more educated members put it), but it's still a valid profession in the dark universe known as Eve. You have to live with that. Just because you want this game to be played a certain way doesn't mean you get your wish. I'm sure we would be much safer if the denizens of New Eden developed instant teleportation. I mean why not? All it does is remove the travel time, and I don't care about suicide gankers opinion, so that should be implemented. It'll make the game much more profitable and fun for industrialists!

At the end of the day Eve has value to most of the players because there is effort put into it and risk taken. We joke in comms about our extra job and the amount of spreadsheets we keep, but the day Eve starts holding my hand through stargates is the day I quit. If I get everything handed to me, then it has no value. There is risk to everything in Eve, and one of those risks is that while you are slowboating 15k to the gate, some pirate who makes his living off your BPO drops is going to scan you and kill you, or that war target has extra time to call his friends. Remember, it doesn't just slow you down on that gate, but on every gate, giving a player time to watch you and call backup, figure you're route, and set the trap. Warping to 0 will remove that.

If you don't like it, as others have said, sit at your keyboard and play the game. If you don't want to sit at your keyboard and play the game then either a) you're in the wrong profession within Eve or b) this isn't the game for you. And I don't mean that last part as some GBTW insult, but not everyone enjoys the Eve universe, if you don't enjoy it, then find a game you do enjoy and put your money there.

In the mean time you need to recognize that yes, you can put your opinion forth, but saying "Mine is the only one that matters, I don't care about gankers" while at the same time admitting you don't want to actually sit at the keyboard, is a pretty shallow way of putting it and really shows your lack of any intelligent argument.

Unless you have a valid reason (and "It's boring" isn't a valid reason, or PI would be completely automated for me) then you have nothing to complain about. There is no broken mechanic here. Sorry, move along.
Black Dranzer
#70 - 2011-11-08 02:13:53 UTC
Jodis Talvanen wrote:
CCP is taking away insurance payout if you are CONCORD'd.

Can I get a citation on this? If it's true, it's about ******* time.
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#71 - 2011-11-08 02:14:00 UTC
Jodis Talvanen wrote:
Dear CCP,

With all the stuff that you are fixing, can you remove the autopilot-not-warping-to-zero "feature" as well?

It is obviously outdated and plain stupid.

Tired Finger


No.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.

Jodis Talvanen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2011-11-08 02:19:18 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
Jodis Talvanen wrote:
CCP is taking away insurance payout if you are CONCORD'd.

Can I get a citation on this? If it's true, it's about ******* time.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=320187#post320187

CCP Soundwave wrote:
We took the insurance out because having it was silly. It's like a double reward when you gank someone, you get their cargo and insurance. It won't stop suicide ganking, it just fixes something we haven't really felt made sense for a long time.

Black Dranzer
#73 - 2011-11-08 02:19:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Dranzer
BeanBagKing wrote:
I'm sure we would be much safer if the denizens of New Eden developed instant teleportation. I mean why not? All it does is remove the travel time, and I don't care about suicide gankers opinion, so that should be implemented. It'll make the game much more profitable and fun for industrialists!

If you're going to pick an analogy, pick one that makes sense. Instant teleportation would utterly destroy any and all sense of local economy, along with making haulers almost completely redundant.

Quote:
If you don't want to sit at your keyboard and play the game then either a) you're in the wrong profession within Eve or b) this isn't the game for you.

Tell that to the miners. DOOOOOHOHOHOHO

Quote:
but saying "Mine is the only one that matters, I don't care about gankers"

Honestly, I don't care much about the gankers, and I believe the needs of many outweigh the needs of a few, but even if we were to take the desires of gankers in top priority, they still wouldn't suffer from this change because you'd get a ton more people autopiloting AFK everywhere in highsec, which would mean a ton more people sitting AFK at their destination.

Quote:
(and "It's boring" isn't a valid reason, or PI would be completely automated for me)

But.. PI did get majorly reworked because it was considered tedious.
Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#74 - 2011-11-08 02:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Zions Child
Black Dranzer wrote:
BeanBagKing wrote:
I'm sure we would be much safer if the denizens of New Eden developed instant teleportation. I mean why not? All it does is remove the travel time, and I don't care about suicide gankers opinion, so that should be implemented. It'll make the game much more profitable and fun for industrialists!

If you're going to pick an analogy, pick one that makes sense. Instant teleportation would utterly destroy any and all sense of local economy, along with making haulers almost completely redundant.
Quote:
If you don't want to sit at your keyboard and play the game then either a) you're in the wrong profession within Eve or b) this isn't the game for you.

Tell that to the miners.
Quote:
but saying "Mine is the only one that matters, I don't care about gankers"

Honestly, I don't care much about the gankers, and I believe the needs of many outweigh the needs of a few, but even if we were to take the desires of gankers in top priority, they still wouldn't suffer from this change because you'd get a ton more people autopiloting AFK everywhere in highsec, which would mean a ton more people sitting AFK at their destination.
Quote:
(and "It's boring" isn't a valid reason, or PI would be completely automated for me)

But.. PI did get majorly reworked because it was considered tedious.




I am way too lazy to get rid of the internal quotes.

Anyways, I love suicide ganking, I've done it before and find it fun. It wasn't the rare occasional reward, it was the QQ and the pleasantries of killing something. Hell, in the one system I took a liking too, I'd only gank people who were afk, the miners there began to love me for it.

Honestly? I think autopilot should be removed from the game. EVE isn't the type of game that should really have auto-pilot. If they introduced collision damage that would only take effect if you and the other person had autopilot on, then I would be happy. Partly because of the infinite lulz that would result, and partly because it would add risk to auto piloting. If you want fast travel times with little risk, there are plenty of games that have that. EVE shouldn't be one of them. And yes, there would be people sitting AFK at their destinations, but that would add a whole slew of other problems. And of course, what's to stop people from demanding that AP dock them as well?
Black Dranzer
#75 - 2011-11-08 02:31:32 UTC
Zions Child wrote:
If you want fast travel times with little risk, there are plenty of games that have that. EVE shouldn't be one of them.

How, exactly, is APWTZ safer or faster than manned WTZ?

Quote:
And of course, what's to stop people from demanding that AP dock them as well?

I long ago learned to counter slippery slope with reductio ad absurdum. Don't tempt me.
Takashi X2
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2011-11-08 02:34:05 UTC
Jodis Talvanen wrote:
Dear CCP,

With all the stuff that you are fixing, can you remove the autopilot-not-warping-to-zero "feature" as well?

It is obviously outdated and plain stupid.

Tired Finger


Its actually time they brought back warp to 15km being the closest and fixed it so even you have bookmarks it acts like a bubble and puts you on the edge. That way the whole 70 billion bookmarks causes horrible issues issue is gone.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#77 - 2011-11-08 02:38:07 UTC
Together with removal of autopilot, CCP should also remove Concord altogether as well.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#78 - 2011-11-08 02:38:39 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
Zions Child wrote:
If you want fast travel times with little risk, there are plenty of games that have that. EVE shouldn't be one of them.

How, exactly, is APWTZ safer or faster than manned WTZ?

Quote:
And of course, what's to stop people from demanding that AP dock them as well?

I long ago learned to counter slippery slope with reductio ad absurdum. Don't tempt me.


Dammit, I love using logical fallacies. If only you fell for it...

APWTZ isn't faster, but it allows you to multitask more efficiently, which I'm opposed to in EVE.
Black Dranzer
#79 - 2011-11-08 02:44:12 UTC
Zions Child wrote:
APWTZ isn't faster, but it allows you to multitask more efficiently, which I'm opposed to in EVE.

7/10 I'm actually mad. There's a reason your Eve interface resembles an OS UI that was originally designed explicitly for multitasking.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#80 - 2011-11-08 02:46:40 UTC
Fille Balle wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Its not a broken feature. You are misquoting me, massively. Do you work for Fox News? I said, its NOT a broken feature, so dont quote me saying "a broken feature is..." because thats -not- what i said.

It is intended yes, so the lazy pilots are left at risk, As it should be. Lazy truck drivers are more likely to run themselves off the road. Lazy Ship Captains floating past Somalia are left at risk as well. This is pretty basic concept.

Your only reasoning for making autopilot warp-to-0 is that you're a lazy highsec noob and want the game to play for you, while you do other things


No, travelling is an incredibly booring chore. It's like being at work with a super slow computer trying to do some spreadheets: click, wait, click, wait, click, wait... Doesn't require any skill what so ever, and thus can not in any way be classed as playing a game.

And supposedly there's a reward, which is supposedly that you get there sooner. I see it differently. If you don't do it, you get punished by increasing your travel time.

And you say too lazy highsec noob that wants the game to play for you, and you use real life analogies. Oh dear. You know what I think, I think it's the lazy suicide gankers who don't want to expend any effort in getting their ganks.

Traveling in nearly every MMO is a boring chore. INCLUDING IN WOW. Even their 'autopilot' birds that fly you around take forever to get to some destinations. Imagine flying those back and forth all day... BORING ALSO!

Guess what? When you take that 5 hour trip to family cottage? BORING THERE TOO! Fact of life: Long travels are usually boring.

Now, if you find traveling abck and forth through higsec boring, perhaps you could... do something else? like stopping, and blowing something up instead?

Why do you play eve? I dont understand why people play eve if not to PvP. You grind and grind for all this ****, and you just sit in it and cry when its blown up.... What is the point in having any of this **** if you arnt going to risk it?

Get the **** off of my internets

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP