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An Open Letter to the Wormhole Community

Author
QT McWhiskers
MultiPass Inc.
The 5th Seal
#21 - 2014-01-07 21:21:13 UTC  |  Edited by: QT McWhiskers
Not a bad attempt rall, but you are missing some key elements. Get with me later if you need pointers on how to effectively make a threadnought.


For now I will simply help you out by getting you to the next page.
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#22 - 2014-01-07 21:28:06 UTC
QT McWhiskers wrote:
Not a bad attempt rall, but you are missing some key elements. Get with me later if you need pointers on how to effectively make a threadnought.


For now I will simply help you out by getting you to the next page.


\o/
I I
/ \

Another celebrity posting!

Actually, I do need to spend some time of Hard Knocks comms soon. Its been too long since I reconnected with my heritage--you guys did pop my w-space cherry after all. Let me know when is a good time in game or lets get on comms together.

ON ANOTHER NOTE to others:

The paragraph structure is not exactly what I'd do on more formal writing, but I'd have also proof read better if this wasn't for a video game. Something I learned in my writing courses at college is that sometimes breaking a paragraph early is easier on the eye than letting it wander on, even if its not optimal, and I realize I'm dealing with a largely "tl;dr" crowd.

I'm not pro at it, but I write fiction as a hobby (sometimes), and have been known to do a lot of more formal type writing. I also know I talk too long for my own good sometimes, especially when I'm trying to be thorough.
Winthorp
#23 - 2014-01-07 21:34:09 UTC
Rall Mekin wrote:
QT McWhiskers wrote:
Not a bad attempt rall, but you are missing some key elements. Get with me later if you need pointers on how to effectively make a threadnought.


For now I will simply help you out by getting you to the next page.


\o/
I I
/ \

Another celebrity posting!

Actually, I do need to spend some time of Hard Knocks comms soon. Its been too long since I reconnected with my heritage--you guys did pop my w-space cherry after all. Let me know when is a good time in game or lets get on comms together.

ON ANOTHER NOTE to others:

The paragraph structure is not exactly what I'd do on more formal writing, but I'd have also proof read better if this wasn't for a video game. Something I learned in my writing courses at college is that sometimes breaking a paragraph early is easier on the eye than letting it wander on, even if its not optimal, and I realize I'm dealing with a largely "tl;dr" crowd.

I'm not pro at it, but I write fiction as a hobby (sometimes), and have been known to do a lot of more formal type writing. I also know I talk too long for my own good sometimes, especially when I'm trying to be thorough.


So you say you won't go to that level of effort for a video game yet right all that sperge about why said video game is making you sad? Honestly these threads tire me and i tend to only lean towards the troll post now,I do like to get into constructive debates but when you do them every two days about the same crap by a different person its so meh...
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#24 - 2014-01-07 21:42:25 UTC
Winthorp wrote:

So you say you won't go to that level of effort for a video game yet right all that sperge about why said video game is making you sad? Honestly these threads tire me and i tend to only lean towards the troll post now,I do like to get into constructive debates but when you do them every two days about the same crap by a different person its so meh...


Then don't waste your time on them. :)

Seriously, do you even know what the actual topic is yet? lol
Winthorp
#25 - 2014-01-07 21:44:11 UTC
Rall Mekin wrote:
Winthorp wrote:

So you say you won't go to that level of effort for a video game yet right all that sperge about why said video game is making you sad? Honestly these threads tire me and i tend to only lean towards the troll post now,I do like to get into constructive debates but when you do them every two days about the same crap by a different person its so meh...


Then don't waste your time on them. :)

Seriously, do you even know what the actual topic is yet? lol


i read a little then decide it was worth trolling but not a serious response.
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#26 - 2014-01-07 21:46:55 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Rall Mekin wrote:
Winthorp wrote:

So you say you won't go to that level of effort for a video game yet right all that sperge about why said video game is making you sad? Honestly these threads tire me and i tend to only lean towards the troll post now,I do like to get into constructive debates but when you do them every two days about the same crap by a different person its so meh...


Then don't waste your time on them. :)

Seriously, do you even know what the actual topic is yet? lol


i read a little then decide it was worth trolling but not a serious response.


:P
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-01-07 22:31:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Blobbing has been and always will be a thing in eve so at the end of the day, all we can do as individuals is deal with it.

What is not under our control is the implementation of new content. I have heard lots of fantastic suggestions for ways in which ccp could improve wormhole space (roaming sleeper, C7 wormholes, multiple statics in some c4-c6, more attackable structure, ect.) but CCP do nothing. The do add quality of life improvements now and again but most things should have been and can't really be called content.

Now CCP are talking about adding new space so if you are 100% happy with wormhole space, you are in luck because you can bet your ass wormholes are going to be ignored from now on anyway.
Winthorp
#28 - 2014-01-07 22:35:06 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Blobbing has been and always will be a thing in eve so at the end of the day, all we can do as individuals is deal with it.

What is not under our control is the implementation of new content. I have heard lots of fantastic suggestions for ways in which ccp could improve wormhole space (roaming sleeper, C7 wormholes, multiple statics in some c4-c6, more attackable structure, ect.) but CCP do nothing. All they do is fix things that should have been that way from the start (e.g. changing subsystems at a pos).

Now CCP are talking about adding new space so if you are 100% happy with wormhole space, you are in luck because you can bet your ass wormholes are going to be ignored from now on anyway.



^My thoughts without my trolling, i will still prefer my troll method though.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-01-07 22:55:57 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Blobbing has been and always will be a thing in eve so at the end of the day, all we can do as individuals is deal with it.

What is not under our control is the implementation of new content. I have heard lots of fantastic suggestions for ways in which ccp could improve wormhole space (roaming sleeper, C7 wormholes, multiple statics in some c4-c6, more attackable structure, ect.) but CCP do nothing. All they do is fix things that should have been that way from the start (e.g. changing subsystems at a pos).

Now CCP are talking about adding new space so if you are 100% happy with wormhole space, you are in luck because you can bet your ass wormholes are going to be ignored from now on anyway.

You know Rek, if there was an award for missing the point, you'd have to buy a bigger house just so that you can fit all your awards in your spare rooms.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#30 - 2014-01-07 23:01:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Rall Mekin
Rek Seven wrote:
Blobbing has been and always will be a thing in eve so at the end of the day, all we can do as individuals is deal with it.

What is not under our control is the implementation of new content. I have heard lots of fantastic suggestions for ways in which ccp could improve wormhole space (roaming sleeper, C7 wormholes, multiple statics in some c4-c6, more attackable structure, ect.) but CCP do nothing. All they do is fix things that should have been that way from the start (e.g. changing subsystems at a pos).

Now CCP are talking about adding new space so if you are 100% happy with wormhole space, you are in luck because you can bet your ass wormholes are going to be ignored from now on anyway.


The power of a similar culture held by many groups to subscribe to a set of values has enormous potential power.

For instance, take the general culture of wormhole space. The culture of taking a fight for a fight's sake was an idea I was brought up on. It brought me to wormholes and has pulled me back again and again. We have built -EOL around it.

We fight, even if its not the brightest idea, and we often do our best unless its outright suicide.. I also see this idea repeatedly uttered in wormhole space cultural narrative, though how true it is or isn't is debatable, and I see the value gradually eroding (its sad). I believe in it though; it has earned me friends and respect (I think), and I think its still a good idea I teach my recruits. Its part of my gaming DNA and even affects how I act in other games now. All it takes to change wormhole space is groups deciding to change it.

However, I still believe my point is valid, regardless of how far this change does or does not go in wormhole culture. Large alliances cause their own woes with fight availability through a history of blobbing smaller groups to death. When these groups later do not fight, then we call them farmers, evict them, and say we've done some-wormhole-deity's work. When this gets boring, we realize we can find something to do elsewhere in game, and spend our e-lives chasing greener pastures all over k-space and w-space, but never quite grasping what we want, because sooner or later everyone wises up and we have to re-deploy somewhere else to get fights.

If PvP entities even individually decided, "Hey, we're not blobbing everyone to death anymore" and figured out ways that worked for them to implement that, well, it might be slow to change their reputation, but eventually word will get out, "Hey, these guys just want a fight, not to pad their killboard," and smaller groups would engage. We wouldn't see wormhole empires arise, become powerful, revered, and respected only to have them have to leave wormhole space. Each time it happens, we loose a little of our collective soul as a people.... It is sad.

Consider, would you rather be able to roll into many holes and get small skirmishes and be able to show your self openly saying, "Fight at x planet and x moon" and people actually show up, or would you rather every single person hide when they see your corp? I'd rather be known to be honorable and have people willing to engage me, even if it means splitting up my fleets and having them roam different parts of space, possibly loosing a few fights I'd otherwise win.
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-01-07 23:27:42 UTC
I see a few people missing the point of the thread...

We arent mad at getting blobbed... We dont care... What Rall is trying to say is that if you are going to ***** about no one fighting you then maybe YOU should do something about it and then he is offering a solution.

Its simple keep the nuke ready but dont drop it if you dont need it.

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.

Lajos Perseus
False Profits
#32 - 2014-01-07 23:39:38 UTC
Just because someone has a bigger stick then you do doesn't mean they should down size. With that said I can see where your coming from. ( yes I read your full post)

Just my opinion all these smaller fleets getting there **** pushed in should entice them to recruit more pilots into there corp. if not gtfo of wh space or take all the smaller corps and let them create there own alliance.

Just my thoughts.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-01-07 23:49:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Rall Mekin wrote:

If PvP entities even individually decided, "Hey, we're not blobbing everyone to death anymore" and figured out ways that worked for them to implement that, well, it might be slow to change their reputation, but eventually word will get out, "Hey, these guys just want a fight, not to pad their killboard," and smaller groups would engage. We wouldn't see wormhole empires arise, become powerful, revered, and respected only to have them have to leave wormhole space. Each time it happens, we loose a little of our collective soul as a people.... It is sad.

Consider, would you rather be able to roll into many holes and get small skirmishes and be able to show your self openly saying, "Fight at x planet and x moon" and people actually show up, or would you rather every single person hide when they see your corp? I'd rather be known to be honorable and have people willing to engage me, even if it means splitting up my fleets and having them roam different parts of space, possibly loosing a few fights I'd otherwise win.


I understand where you are coming from but you have to understand that people will naturally want to be the biggest and most powerful because it's their nature. We could all agree to not have an active member base over 50 and only ever fight with equal numbers but that isn't realistic. You can't turn round to someone in your corp/alliance and say "you are going to have to sit this one out because we only like "fair" fights. If PVP was just me jumping into a system and saying "5v5 at the sun guyz?" i would quit the game.

Part of the reason we formed a new alliance has to get away from the bad image of you old so again, i understand where you are coming from. We try to avoid the wormhole politics and the coalition style invasions and we don't blob people willing to fight and i think we are better for it.

I think the notion of fair arranged fights is a bad thing and shows how stale wormhole PVP has become (in c5/c6 mainly). Sure the player share some responsibility but IMO, CCPs lack of action plays a bigger part so i'll keep being one of the people screaming for improvements.

@ Jack, it's late here so forgive me but i didn't read through the entire 2 page post but i thought i got the gist... i'll try again tomorrow.
CeNSeR
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-01-08 00:20:31 UTC
Tasiv Deka wrote:
I see a few people missing the point of the thread...

We arent mad at getting blobbed... We dont care... What Rall is trying to say is that if you are going to ***** about no one fighting you then maybe YOU should do something about it and then he is offering a solution.

Its simple keep the nuke ready but dont drop it if you dont need it.


So if your not mad about getting blobbed and you dont care what is the point of this thread?

Or are you just trying to convey my ideals and sentiments for wormhole space pvp then as you can see I disagree a little.
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2014-01-08 00:26:07 UTC
CeNSeR wrote:
Tasiv Deka wrote:
I see a few people missing the point of the thread...

We arent mad at getting blobbed... We dont care... What Rall is trying to say is that if you are going to ***** about no one fighting you then maybe YOU should do something about it and then he is offering a solution.

Its simple keep the nuke ready but dont drop it if you dont need it.


So if your not mad about getting blobbed and you dont care what is the point of this thread?

Or are you just trying to convey my ideals and sentiments for wormhole space pvp then as you can see I disagree a little.


Its more the idea that we are irritated with people complaining about not getting fights, and yes i know bitching to end bitching doesnt always work

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.

Dmitry Wizard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#36 - 2014-01-08 00:28:29 UTC
Blobbing is the natural progression of the "Group" it does happen it is up to you to break the norm. "over-ride" your natural instincts. Ragnarok. since it's intrusion to Class 6 wormhole space has done what it can to try and break the norm by not requiring T3 cruisers and simply saying "fly what you think is fun" weve been repelling away from the t3 norm as best we can but eventually more and more t3's leak into fleets.

The natural progression happens. Don't regret becoming the size you are it simply means people like to fly with you and enjoy the cohesive unit you have created with blood sweat and tears. With END. being a 300 man alliance we are able to put up 30 man fleets and go roaming. With that being said we like to break our fleets up with multiple FC's and go do different things so we arent rroaming around in the WH equivalent of a blob. it takes leadership being strong and willing to break that paradigm

"Wormhole corps are like a bunch of homeschooled kids"

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-01-08 01:19:32 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
I understand where you are coming from but you have to understand that people will naturally want to be the biggest and most powerful because it's their nature.

this is only true for people that are lazy.
I'd MUCH rather be good on my own than irrelevant in a blob. every time, not even close.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

CeNSeR
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2014-01-08 01:47:17 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
I understand where you are coming from but you have to understand that people will naturally want to be the biggest and most powerful because it's their nature.

this is only true for people that are lazy.
I'd MUCH rather be good on my own than irrelevant in a blob. every time, not even close.


Was this sentiment the same when you were part of AHARM?

Or was it you grew tired of that style of play and decided you wanted to try something different.

You see some people like playing this game as a team and some dont. Being lazy has nothing to do with it or it could have been with people you have flown with in the past.

The generalizations in this thread is just hilarious.
Winthorp
#39 - 2014-01-08 01:51:05 UTC
Rall Mekin wrote:
Winthorp wrote:
Keep it brief he says. Sorry i stopped reading after i scrolled down and saw all that sperging with no paragraph structure.

Why do we have to have these threads every two bloody days that amount to nothing other then a WH'er mad about the way things are and their brilliant solutions that CCP will never implement?


TL;DR

We are the problem, not wormhole space or CCP. Don't blob people and you will get more fights, even if you are capable of being amazingly large.


Are you not the one looking to get into an alliance to blob up?
Glyndi
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#40 - 2014-01-08 02:03:15 UTC
We like to blob with wrecks as we conga-line into fleets....does this count?

For serious though, there is a reason we're trying to stay small while being large enough so that we have consistent number of bodies for activities daily. I'd rather overpower someone with skill then numbers, we're still working on that skill part Lol