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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Non-scannable locations in space

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H2O Hairey
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2014-01-10 12:11:00 UTC
A big fat +1 for this.

After the posts and blogs about the plateau of accounts that had logged in to eve-online,
at a average that hovered around 30,000 for the past four and a half years;
http://www.ninveah.com/2014/01/blog-banter-52-other-side.html

This (or something els) is that "something" that eve-online NEEDS or it will die slowly over the next years
Galdrak
Interplanetary Trade Federation
#102 - 2014-01-10 14:38:33 UTC
+1
this should engage new players and bitter vets.

fudface
ACME-INC
#103 - 2014-01-10 14:51:13 UTC
brilliant, i fully endorse this idea and urge ccp to look into it.

the "dinsdale disruption cloud" (DDC) named for the man who found it. could be a huge boon to new and old players looking for prey and prey looking to hide.

i fully expect to spend hours hunting through the area searching for my targets.

bring it on i say.

ps i like the idea of the environment trying to kill you. toxic cloud areas.

+1

my 2 isk worth
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#104 - 2014-01-10 15:07:16 UTC
This thread is so full of great ideas that there is no way CCP will ever implement them :)

Invalid signature format
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2014-01-10 15:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
How about toxic cloud areas that you can extract fullerenes (or something similar) from. You risk destruction for gain...time your cycle wrong and you get nothing, get it right and you escape with a hold of goodies...

All the while being spooked by the 'Farsaidh' phenomenon you are seeing in your overview where you see the unknown vessel somewhere nearby in your overview.

Any idea incorporated should be named after the proposer XD
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#106 - 2014-01-10 15:16:09 UTC
Here is your Concord / exploit solution, for those concerned these clouds could become unintended means to avoid being dokkened...

Concord has positioned an artificial frontier surrounding these areas, which stops players ships with a pop up warning that they are leaving protected space.
(Secondary effect being that "wanted" ships are detained for Concord interaction)
This would not be a bottleneck normally, as no single point in space would be specific as an entry, but rather the entire event horizon in every direction surrounding it.

What happens in the Dinsdale Phenomenon Cloud, stays in the DPC.
Don't go in, if you don't want to party.

Twisted

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Redspot Hita
Hello-There
#107 - 2014-01-10 18:52:06 UTC
Wow, very nice idea!

How many +1 can I give? :)

[i]--- Smile! You are on the interwebs![/i]
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2014-01-10 19:11:53 UTC
We were discussing this idea in corp and one of the guys pointed out that the Eve gate area already implements many of the mechanics discussed here. Could be a good starting point, and in lore terms the warp storms around the gate could be spreading...
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#109 - 2014-01-10 19:31:38 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
We were discussing this idea in corp and one of the guys pointed out that the Eve gate area already implements many of the mechanics discussed here. Could be a good starting point, and in lore terms the warp storms around the gate could be spreading...


If CCP can reuse code, so much the better.
I posted earlier, but I think it bears repeating. I believe the trick is to keep it as simple as possible, and reuse as many existing game mechanics as possible, and create this environment by turning off the ones that need to be turned off to make it happen.

Now, that said, if CCP wants to create new content for these zones, that's great.
I think a simple construct for Sisi that could consist of a dog's breakfast of existing sites and game constructs, while turning off a few key ones, just to see how the general concept works, would be the way to start. If it looked promising, and the player feedback good, then CCP might commit more resources to new content for it.

It is always simpler to add stuff, rather than subtract.

I remember that before Apochrypha, my old crew spent 4 weeks on Sisi, screwing around with understanding how it all came together in wormholes. I would suggest that something like this would require a ton of player testing and feedback to strike a correct balance of risk, reward, and most importantly, fun, before it could be dropped on TQ.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2014-01-10 19:59:21 UTC
Agreed, sounds like we already have the following:

* Warp and sensor disabling region (Eve Gate)
* Damaging localized effects (Recon mission)
* Data/Relic sites (just use the standard ones with different/enhanced loot drops)
* Ore sites (maybe with new ore types, but simply use morphite as the test ore)

Stitch them together as a starting point and use scale and lack of warp to make the region unsuitable for anything above a fast cruiser. Then maybe look at including some of the new mechanics proposed by various folks in the thread.
Tykari
The Observatory
#111 - 2014-01-10 20:00:56 UTC
A definite +1 for this one. It has so much potential and new possibilities.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#112 - 2014-01-11 13:42:14 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Really love this idea, it gives the opportunity for real exploration.

Stick with the early 20th century explorer as a concept.

One of the core roles of an explorer was to find locations to exploit, some by himself but mostly to sell the results to others to exploit.

There would need to be a mapping or breadcrumb system of bookmarking he could sell to others, and return to.
So some degree of persistance would be required within the anomoly (even though with time the BM might wander but stay in grid) . Better astrometric pinpointing skills, the more accurate and stable the breadcrumb bookmark? Possibly using the wormhole mechanic where the entry point changes and needs to be scanned out ?

Definately agree no moons or POS structures other than mobile depots.

One should be able to microjump between each bookmark/breadcrumb in the anomoly once mapped. But the explorer has to initially do it the hard way.

Once a site is exploited, it would despawn but persistant for 10 days after discovery.

In terms of mechanics, almost like a completely different kind of wormhole, no dscan, I like the idea of a flickering local for cloaky ships on grid, restricted range, and the explorer having no idea what he might find.
So in principle an anomoly KS side, could be thought of as a sphere of 50 wormholes,once you have jumped in and explored and jumped out you can bookmark your enterance/exit point to get back to the same space.

Avoid difficuilty for it's own sake though, we want to encourage new explorers, and keep players, let skills, persistance, and experience provide the rewards, and stupidity and impatience provide the risks.

Fabulous idea,lets keep to the core concept, and don't poison it too much with the eve is hard mentality.

Regarding PvP let smart mice avoid the cats, and let smart cats catch the careless mice.

We neither need to nail the mouses foot to the floor or put a bell on the cat.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#113 - 2014-01-11 15:20:17 UTC
I like this.

I like it even more considering CCP has ruined any feeling of challenge / self reward for exploration, now transformed in some cheap "point and click => warp" menial thing.

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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2014-01-11 16:10:24 UTC
I think my favourite aspect of this idea is that it's not the structures, environment, rewards, rats or whatever else is already in missions/explo that will make this great. It's the player interactions that will come from it, do you co-operate? Just shoot the opposition? Wait cloaked for them to pop the can and then steal some loot as it flies out? Go hunt other players? Go hunt other players who are hunting other players?...The possibilities are huge.
Saberlily Whyteshadow
Perkone
Caldari State
#115 - 2014-01-11 16:19:30 UTC
Silent Rambo wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Sure, why not? A Gas cloud can be a fluid thing, made up of electromagnetic swirls and eddies. So why would a bookmark be expected to be static. Or perhaps the bookmark is a static location, and the gas cloud ebbs and flows around it. Suddenly a bookmark 2 km off the edge is 50 km inside 4 hours later. I don't know if CCP can code boundaries like that, but who knows?


I really doubt that it could move, as we don't even have planets and moons that move. Locations inside a system are basically static at this point, and so are bookmarks. A way to make different entrances would be to make them sort of like districts on a planet. This would most likely be the easiest way of opening different ways to enter the "null void" instead of just a single entrance.

From what I've noticed, the EVE engine doesn't do much besides have things be drawn in static location, so I don't think there is a lot of room for dynamic moving content really anywhere in space till the engine is fixed to support it. Changing a bookmark location server side constantly would be the only way I see to fake it.



I think this can be done, like using layers in photoshop.

You can have many differently designed anomaly "pieces." Each piece can have a random lifetime of a few hours so they can despawn them selves. All the server has to do is spawn these pieces randomly so they overlap each other in layers.

Outer layers can be smaller pieces and have shorter lifetimes so it looks like its always changing.
Inner layers can be bigger pieces and have longer lifetimes so its effects are more persistent.

When done right, it can look like its alive.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#116 - 2014-01-11 16:54:36 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#117 - 2014-01-11 17:24:17 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I think my favourite aspect of this idea is that it's not the structures, environment, rewards, rats or whatever else is already in missions/explo that will make this great. It's the player interactions that will come from it, do you co-operate? Just shoot the opposition? Wait cloaked for them to pop the can and then steal some loot as it flies out? Go hunt other players? Go hunt other players who are hunting other players?...The possibilities are huge.


For me, the myriad of possibilities is key.
If CCP ever incorporates something like this into the game, it has to be something that cannot be repeated and industrialized.
The idea of the unknown, whether it is PvP or PvE oriented, you HAVE to always be thinking "what human lurks nearby, and will they be friend or foe?"

Another issue that is important for me, and unfortunately, can derail this whole thing, is the ISK thing.

There will be a subset of players (think RvB on steroids), who will enter these areas just for the thrill of the hunt and combat. That group needs no ISK incentive, but they are a small subset I would believe. There are also PvP groups that will incorporate zones like this into their existing tactics. (hiding a supercap fleet from prying eyes, deep in hostile territory, has its advantages). They also need no fiscal incentive.

But to get the larger percentage of PvP'ers involved in this, you first have to attract a critical mass of bodies into the zones. That means PvE rewards, and they would have to be substantial to justify the effort, co-ordination, and time of exploring, plus the additional risk. Balancing that takes more wisdom than Solomon, and I don't think anyone can dare step into those waters until the parameters of the actual construct are nailed down, and how much "risk" is involved with such a zone.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#118 - 2014-01-11 19:59:34 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

There will be a subset of players (think RvB on steroids), who will enter these areas just for the thrill of the hunt and combat. That group needs no ISK incentive, but they are a small subset I would believe. There are also PvP groups that will incorporate zones like this into their existing tactics. (hiding a supercap fleet from prying eyes, deep in hostile territory, has its advantages). They also need no fiscal incentive.

But to get the larger percentage of PvP'ers involved in this, you first have to attract a critical mass of bodies into the zones. That means PvE rewards, and they would have to be substantial to justify the effort, co-ordination, and time of exploring, plus the additional risk. Balancing that takes more wisdom than Solomon, and I don't think anyone can dare step into those waters until the parameters of the actual construct are nailed down, and how much "risk" is involved with such a zone.


This balance is precisely the most important part. The PVE content inside should not require billion ISK ships to run. The primary risk should come from players, but the rats should still present a challenge because the presence of hostile players cannot be guaranteed. Think small NPC gangs or individual ships that can be taken down by PVP fits. Rats you have to warp scramble in order to kill. NPC spawns that increase depending on how many players are on grid and what kind of ships they are flying. I think this was partially done with WH's, but not implemented as well as it should have been.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

buyer Bedala
Doomheim
#119 - 2014-01-11 20:22:10 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Given that CCP has now demonstrated that they have the coding capability to create zones of non-scanability, how about creating stuff like static nebula's and gas clouds that negate the ability to scan in OR out. Where there is a perpetual warp disruption field in place.

Large areas, thousands of km across, where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
Put items/sites of value in in them though, where people REALLY have to explore, where you operate by your wits, overview and luck.

Some place that while it is easy to hide in, be it someone with evil or benign intentions, but also makes it very difficult to hunt someone down in the cloud.

I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.

Edit: Expanded thoughts:

I don't really want to dive into specifics with this initial post, that is covered on page 3 of this thread.
I want to discuss general theme.

In my opinion, a whole lot of older players are looking for the "next horizon" within Eve.
They have done pretty much all that Eve has to offer, at least on a superficial level.
They are waiting for something new, hence the excitement about CCP opening up new territory with player jump gates.

But what if they can have that new experience within the confines of existing star systems?
What if they could experience a different type of Eve, where the game is played a little differently, where things are more claustrophobic, where things are a little more random, the risks higher, and the rewards also higher, where tried and true methods of PvE and PvP operation have to be altered, or thrown out the window?

On a different tack, Eve players are notorious for being way too smart for their own good. We quickly industrialize every PvE concept, or even PvP mechanism that CCP hands us. Does not matter if it is high sec incursions, or wormhole C6 combat sites, or FW plexes, or null sec sov moon goo.
The players will take a mechanism and will test and optimize the risk/return ratio.

But what if they faced a section of space where the rules are changed? Where things are so random, or so varied in possibilities that no group could optimize for any particular circumstance. Where industrialization of sites was impossible, where bad people could be anywhere? Where exploration and finding riches or prey was significantly more difficult than today, and the rewards matched?

This is the type of zone that I would like to see CCP create, and by removing some of the existing game mechanics as described later, where you are partially blinded, you don't know what you are facing. PvE sites and PvP situations can be so much closer together, since you can't see them, until you are virtually on top of them. Whole new meta's on how to play will be created.

The happiest time I had in Eve was when Apochrypha came out. My old crew, within Eve UNI, has our 1st POS up in wh space 5 hours after Apochrypha was released. We stayed for over a year, constantly upgrading our home, from a C3 to a C4 to a C5 with a C6 static. The sense of the unknown, the learning of new game mechanics, the heightened risk of no local, all made for a great experience.

I think something like what I am proposing could bring back that wonder and excitement level, and it would be oh so easy for all to access, as these zones could spawn anywhere. And if done properly, and if CCP jams enough variation of sites and potential combat situations into a zone, then it would be very difficult to optimize for anything. I am not talking about quantity of sites being in a zone. I am talking about variation of POTENTIAL sites. If one does not know what they will find any given day, the game becomes very interesting.


My primary concern would be how this interacts with local. The obvious strategy in this zone would be to just warp out or cloak if you see someone in local. This eliminates much of the risk in these zones. When doing exploration, its already common practice to cloak or leave the site if someone shows up in local. The only area these zones could work in is wormholes. And even then, you can be fairly safe by having someone watch the entrances.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2014-01-12 01:09:08 UTC
My view is that no ship larger than a cruiser should be able to fly in (gravitational forces putting too much stress on higher mass ships or something). This would mean a site could not be camped with a fleet of supercaps and then farmed. It would keep combat and exploration fast and fluid. It would also mitigate somewhat agàinst local since it could still be worth your time to inve§tigate given that ghose in the DDC will have exactly the same advantages and disadvantages.

I would be happy for ships to disappear from local upon entering the cloud though. Then anyone already in wouldn't know if the player left system or entered the cloud...more paranoia in this case can only be a good thing...