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Had this part of the ToS highlighted to me by a GM - Thanks :)

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Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-01-06 22:38:40 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Unlocking thread. My bad.



Easily done, it was quite a wall of text.

Credit where its due you unlocked very quickly. Big smile

This thread was only opened as I was shocked at how vague the ToS was, and wanted to get other peoples opinions on the matter. Like many others must have, I just clicked "yes" and didn't take the time to read what was actually in it, until today.

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Josef Djugashvilis
#42 - 2014-01-06 22:53:01 UTC
What ever you did, do not do it again.

If you are planning to do a slight variation of whatever you did, don't.

If you are minded to do something which you think might be a bit 'iffy' check with CCP that it is okay to do whatever before you do it.

Think - act.

It is very important to get, think - act, in the correct order.

This is not a signature.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#43 - 2014-01-06 22:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Prie Mary wrote:
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Unlocking thread. My bad.



Easily done, it was quite a wall of text.

Credit where its due you unlocked very quickly. Big smile

This thread was only opened as I was shocked at how vague the ToS was, and wanted to get other peoples opinions on the matter. Like many others must have, I just clicked "yes" and didn't take the time to read what was actually in it, until today.
You'll find most ToS's are the same, deliberately vague. Lawyers like vague stuff, it's easy to twist.

The difference between CCP and other Devs is that CCP generally takes pride in the way we push the envelope and break stuff, and often welcomes accidental bonus mechanics discovered by players. If they consider something an exploit or harassment they'll generally tell us, if it's not then they might tell us, if we're lucky.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2014-01-06 23:14:46 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You're right, it's badly worded. Let's just cut out that sentence altogether.

OP liked this post. I think he misunderstood my point.

I think the sentence should be removed so crybaby carebears don't have that to point to.
"CCP they're interfering with my ability to enjoy the game please please please ban them I can't deal with it I just can't."

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-01-06 23:45:59 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
My Magic Crystal Ball is telling me this thread may be locked due to discussing GM communications.



I have not discussed the conversation or event so I cant see why it would.


I do however call upon ANYBODY loosing a ship.. be it in 0.0 or empire to file petitions as under this current ToS many circumstances in which you die might be effecting your ability to enjoy the game, and should entitle you to a reimbursement.
How does one loose a ship exactly? And where did you put it, that you had to get it loose ?

Oh my ... I don't want to know .........................................

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#46 - 2014-01-06 23:54:30 UTC
Serious borking their "ability to enjoy the game" and seriously borking their ability to play the game -- well, some people can't do either so really the TOS could be interpreted to emphasize that fact as much as anything else someone cares to read into it.

Roll

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#47 - 2014-01-07 00:27:05 UTC
Jill Chastot wrote:
The thread needn't be locked, i left a perfectly good response to OP one up from you. Hopefully at least one soul will take it to heart and understand they can respond to other players interactions Cry


I fear you will be leaving here disappointed.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#48 - 2014-01-07 01:46:55 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
Serious borking their "ability to enjoy the game" and seriously borking their ability to play the game -- well, some people can't do either so really the TOS could be interpreted to emphasize that fact as much as anything else someone cares to read into it.

Roll
Does that mean I can get idiots banned from the game for being stupid in my general proximity under a ToS violation charge?
Huzzah! There go 3/4 of the miners!

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#49 - 2014-01-07 04:37:13 UTC
A lot of people seem to miss the fact that the End User License Agreement is all about the relationship between any individual player and CCP, not the relationship between other players.

It doesn't bind CCP in any way. Instead it provides a reasonable set of expectations for players to follow- stepping outside of the agreement doesn't necessitate a ban, but probably will invite one. Grey areas are equally dubious. Point is that CCP have final say on who can or cannot access the game and exercise their best judgement- the EULA merely provides a guideline for how that judgement will typically fall and thus is subject to updates as policy is changed or updated.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#50 - 2014-01-07 04:48:27 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
pretty sure that interferes with someone's ability "to enjoy the game".

You forgot the 'in accordance with the rules' part.

Oh god.
Pipa Porto
#51 - 2014-01-07 04:53:30 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
rule 16 of the ToS:

"You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world."



Wrong definition of the word "enjoy."


Legal documents use the second definition.

In other words, you could rewrite the sentence thus:
"You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to benefit from the game or web site in accordance with its rules."

The sole benefit of the game subscription is, of course, access to the game.

Quote:
en·joy
enˈjoi/
verb
1.
take delight or pleasure in (an activity or occasion).
2.
possess and benefit from.
"the security forces enjoy legal immunity from prosecution"

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#52 - 2014-01-07 09:42:13 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
Kryptik Kai wrote:
This is going to get locked anyway but...

you seem to have glossed over the "in accordance with its rules" part.

None of your examples are against the rules, so no problem.

Whatever you did was against the rules, so theres a problem.

Not so vague.



The rules are not stated. As such there are no rules?


If you read laws in the so called real world of puny mortals, they are often generally worded and sometimes refer to regulations and precedents which are to be found elsewhere.

The examples named in the original post are either intended game mechanics specifically put in place to be used as such, or come with a history of precedents and GM guidelines relatively well known to the player base.
The nature of the game is that you can't write down a hard coded set of rules detailing every scenario. It would be equal parts boring and impossible :)

In this case it says you can't stop people from enjoying the game in accordance with the rules, which refers to behavior such as abusing glitches, knowingly affecting connectivity, spamming ascii pictures of genitalia etc

True, GMs have the power to interpret but not individually and arbitrarily. There's all sorts of checks and balances not to forget all the elder GMs who can be summoned with dark magic if needed. If you knew how long and hard those guys can debate a contended issue, you'd feel so warm and safe <3

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard
Ray Malukker
Doomheim
#53 - 2014-01-07 10:27:13 UTC
it really says

16. You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.

Yea, though I walk into the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me

Psalm 23:4
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-01-07 10:32:57 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
spamming ascii pictures of genitalia


Aww damn... Wait, so it's ok for me to spam imgur links of my own genitalia?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
CCP Falcon
#55 - 2014-01-07 10:50:00 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
My Magic Crystal Ball is telling me this thread may be locked due to discussing GM communications.


No, but it will be locked for being absolutely ridiculous.

"You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules."

Please stop making bad posts.

Locked.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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