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[Rubicon 1.1] Mobile Micro Jump Unit and Mobile Scan Inhibitor

First post First post First post
Author
Theon Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-01-06 18:39:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Theon Severasse
Both of these things need to be stopped from being able to anchor in FW plexes, since they will essentially stop a lot of PvP from happening - who is seriously going to enter an FW plex that is scan cloaked unless they are in a blob?

They are also impossible to kill in practical terms by the ships that are able to enter them, since the MJU is about the EHP of a cruiser, whilst the MSI is about the EHP of a battlecruiser.
Zulu Death Mask
Yaxchilan
#42 - 2014-01-06 18:44:08 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:
Can cloaked ships use the MJD unit and and if yes remain cloaked while doing so?

Can HICs use it with their bubble up?

Questions needing answers


In its current iteration the answer to both is yes. We're not dead set on keeping that as is however.


You are joking right?
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#43 - 2014-01-06 18:44:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Vinyl 41
so with the introduction of the MJU what type of buff / change will the large MJD get ? pls CCP dont state that the faster spool time is rly worth it when we get a huge cap consumtion and a cd on it
oh actually the MJU got some drawbacks its 1 time use but it costs 1m to produce - lolz thats a small drawback CCP
Tertius Tallang
Ex Inanimento Prodeo
#44 - 2014-01-06 18:46:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tertius Tallang
Three suggestions that immediately come to mind:

  • Disable scan disruption unit use inside deadspace. Being forced to warp at zero into deadspace without any way of knowing what you're warping into is stupid, stupid, stupid.
  • Make scan disruption units beacons on the overview similar to cynos. Complete disruption of any not-on-grid intel gathering is an immensely powerful tool (especially when paired with well-placed bubbles - as the disruption unit is now the only warpable thing on the grid, you know exactly that anything warping to the unit (even at range) will get caught in a bubble and quite likely decloaked if your inties are good). They need some sort of noticable disadvantage - an immediate "here's someone trying to hide something" marker on the overview is a good start.
  • Alternately, prevent anyone in the area of effect of a scan disruption unit from using DScan themselves and commanding their probes (warping to previously-scanned results is fine, obviously).


Also, the Micro Jump Unit seems like a hardly-thought-out gimmick that serves no real purpose except "ooh shiny". Incidentally, they're also a perfect 100% guaranteed way of escaping a noscram inty if you have them down before getting jumped - pre-aligned MJU use means even if the inty pilot also activates the unit on the same tick, they'd still lose lock and you could simply warp out during that second. I'm not sure if that's really something that improves the game in any way.

EDIT:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:
Can cloaked ships use the MJD unit and and if yes remain cloaked while doing so?

Can HICs use it with their bubble up?

Questions needing answers


In its current iteration the answer to both is yes. We're not dead set on keeping that as is however.


That is a use that I hadn't even thought of yet, but that seems quite game-changing in many ways. I'm assuming there was at some point a reason for the mobility restrictions placed on hictors and cloakies - have these reasons changed? If yes, how?
Matthias Duran
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-01-06 18:47:09 UTC
Since the only way to tell what's at one of the scan inhibitors is to warp onto its grid, how is it going to interact with bubbles, particularly if you then surround it with smartbombing BS just inside the inhibitor's radius?
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
#46 - 2014-01-06 18:52:16 UTC
If you could just make wormholes immune to most changes in Eve, that would greeeeeeeeeeeeat.

No trolling please

Vatek
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2014-01-06 18:52:46 UTC
Just what we need, more things that make nullsec ratters even safer! Warp disruptors are now obsolete, better fit scrams on everything because even a ratting ship that doesn't fit an MJD can still MJD away!

Scrap both of these, they're ****.
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2014-01-06 18:53:45 UTC
Matthias Duran wrote:
Since the only way to tell what's at one of the scan inhibitors is to warp onto its grid, how is it going to interact with bubbles, particularly if you then surround it with smartbombing BS just inside the inhibitor's radius?


And now add the smatbombing battleships in low sec you can no long see, that doesnt even need MJD anymore to get away. I have a really hard time seeing how these are gonna improve the game more than they damage it:-s
Alexander McKeon
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-01-06 18:54:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexander McKeon
I believe that in the current iteration, the scan disruptor provides too great a margin of safety for PvE fleets in C5/C6 W-Space; Just anchor a few dozen of these around your system before rolling out the PvE capital fleet, and by the time any hostiles roll into your system and have correctly identified which site you're in, all assets will have gotten off the field.

If by 'easy to scan down' you mean that a 16 or 32-AU scan will resolve them in a single cycle, that might be tolerable, but likely still tilts the advantage too much towards the defender.
Capqu
Half Empty
#50 - 2014-01-06 18:54:54 UTC
is there a reason for adding this free-extra-slot-mjd gimmick for all ships before you try introducing smaller versions of the already existing mjd?

why exactly have you gone from "only usable on battleships, requires a midslot and a lot of fitting" to the opera winfrey style of "you get an mjd, and you get an mjd, mjds for everyone in the audience"

just seems like adding content for the sake of content without any real thought behind it
Tytos Khamez
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#51 - 2014-01-06 18:56:14 UTC
What does the MSI do to a cyno lit inside of it? How does that appear on the overview and/or dscan?
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2014-01-06 19:01:11 UTC
Can CONCORD see me do illegal things near this MSU? Also, CONCORD scrams you right? So you couldn't micro jump away?
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#53 - 2014-01-06 19:01:23 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
The Mobile Scan Inhibitor could be cool but it should be a permanent structure than can be re-scooped IMHO.

The mobile micro jump unit sound interesting at first but i struggle to think of any good application for it other than letting ships avoid bombing fleets.


12s spool up and bombs only have 10s flight time. It would be a tight squeeze when jumping.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson

M5 Tuttle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2014-01-06 19:03:43 UTC
Balance issues aside, its great that CCP is adding new mechanics to the game with these mobile structures. A think a lot of the hate in this thread is not necessary aimed at the mechanics themselves but at potential exploitation. The other mobile structures are seeing a fair amount of use and haven't totally broken the game yet, so I hope that trend will continue with these.

Hopefully CCP will err on the side caution and release them in a more underpowered state, then buff them later if they are unusable.
Joshu Mumon
Doomheim
#55 - 2014-01-06 19:04:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Joshu Mumon
Tertius Tallang wrote:
Three suggestions that immediately come to mind:

  • Disable scan disruption unit use inside deadspace. Being forced to warp at zero into deadspace without any way of knowing what you're warping into is stupid, stupid, stupid.



This came to mind for me as well.

If an inhibitor is used in space you can still warp on grid at 100km.

If someone drops an inhibitor after activating an acceleration gate, it leaves no way to know what is hiding without warping right on top of it.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#56 - 2014-01-06 19:05:57 UTC
Tytos Khamez wrote:
What does the MSI do to a cyno lit inside of it? How does that appear on the overview and/or dscan?


The Scan Inhib does not prevent anything from showing up on overviews or the discovery scanner. So beacons such as cynos will still appear.

Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We'll be discussing everything brought up in this thread with the team tomorrow.

It's 7 here so I'm off to get some dinner, have a good night.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Powers Sa
#57 - 2014-01-06 19:06:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Powers Sa
What are the mass restrictions on mobile jump thingies? will freighters and titans be able to use them?

"We are currently planning to set the mass restrictions such that freighters can use it but anything larger is blocked."
Please no. If i'm bumping a freighter for ransom, and he drops one of these, then peaces out, then this will be just like a GM moved him.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.

Kerplakershtat Rova
The Mostly Free People's Republic of Persephone
#58 - 2014-01-06 19:07:58 UTC
Can MMJDs work while in a bubble?
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2014-01-06 19:08:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Grunanca
M5 Tuttle wrote:
Balance issues aside, its great that CCP is adding new mechanics to the game with these mobile structures. A think a lot of the hate in this thread is not necessary aimed at the mechanics themselves but at potential exploitation. The other mobile structures are seeing a fair amount of use and haven't totally broken the game yet, so I hope that trend will continue with these.

Hopefully CCP will err on the side caution and release them in a more underpowered state, then buff them later if they are unusable.


What the difference in your opinion between use and exploitation? Because all I see is posts about how legitimate use of the structures will be making a worse game, not a better. In EVE people use everything to the full potential, so if something is possible with it, it will be done!
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#60 - 2014-01-06 19:08:55 UTC
Kerplakershtat Rova wrote:
Can MMJDs work while in a bubble?


yes

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