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Ganking, attitudes, & the NPE

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Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#41 - 2014-01-06 16:08:31 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
No, that's just as stupid. Antisocial behaviour would be acceptable.


Please, re-read the TL;DR, and let me know if you find this to be acceptable, if you would be so kind?

Thank you.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#42 - 2014-01-06 16:09:41 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
It is a game, if you have mental breakdowns over silly pixels getting your hulk ganked is really smallest of your problems.


nobody has mental breakdowns, that is something only a ****** would say. This is about fair gameplay.

Some people do.



Stop feeding the.... burger?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#43 - 2014-01-06 16:09:45 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Meyr wrote:


Rats won't kill your pod. You see rats, and you know that you need to kill them. You see another player, and MOST new players just look, and either wonder what they're doing, or think (if they think at all) that it's not hostile.



I dont think you mean to, but are you saying there should be a mission where your pod is at risk?


Honestly, that's not a bad idea.
Dextrome Thorphan
#44 - 2014-01-06 16:11:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dextrome Thorphan
What a strange post... so after that big wall of text, all the OP really wanted to say was "I think noob miners should be taught how to avoid being ganked"?

Wtf... sure.... why not.... don't get why you had to make a thread about it though. Just go out and teach some noobs...
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#45 - 2014-01-06 16:12:44 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
No, that's just as stupid. Antisocial behaviour would be acceptable.


Please, re-read the TL;DR, and let me know if you find this to be acceptable, if you would be so kind?

Thank you.


It's better, but you should clarify that they might not actually be mean people in real life and that their actions in Eve do not provide an accurate representation of their real selves.

Oh god.
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#46 - 2014-01-06 16:15:22 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Meyr wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
No, that's just as stupid. Antisocial behaviour would be acceptable.


Please, re-read the TL;DR, and let me know if you find this to be acceptable, if you would be so kind?

Thank you.


It's better, but you should clarify that they might not actually be mean people in real life and that their actions in Eve do not provide an accurate representation of their real selves.


Shush! Now, you're just being silly. I refuse to provide a legal disclaimer.

That's why I'm not a lawyer.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#47 - 2014-01-06 16:16:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
What a strange post... so after that big wall of text, all the OP really wanted to say was "I think noob miners should be taught how to avoid being ganked"?

Wtf... sure.... why not.... don't get why you had to make a thread about it though.
Players make much better teachers anyway. Getting ganked is the first step along the path of not getting ganked, being able to both see and learn from the lesson being taught is down to the pupil.

If a gankee does get in contact or is contacted it's usually a torrent of abuse and rage over the loss of their stuff, of how highsec is supposed to be safe, a no PvP zone etc. Which results in lols and entertaining chat logs. Ask gankers how to avoid it happening again and most will gladly help with fits and general advice, venting a bit and then calming down enough to ask is acceptable.

Raging hard, in local so that the defensive communal carebear rage response is activated, thus identifying future targets, and then logging off is the preferred response though Twisted

TL;DR They either learn from it, or they wash out and complain on the forums about it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#48 - 2014-01-06 16:16:30 UTC
HUGS ALL ROUND! THREAD COMPLETED!

(Except for burger, for being a mentalist)

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#49 - 2014-01-06 16:21:04 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Again, we have readily defined and understandable goals for these actions.
What is the goal, then, of a typical miner gank, though?


Creating content, playing a game, having fun. these are the goals.

The ganking player (consciously or not) is creating content for the miner player.

In a classic theme park game system you'd have some kind of NPC or other AI mechanic to add challange to the miner gameplay, adding a premade content. In a sandbox/players driven game you have the players interactions doing it.

And of course the miner player (consciously or not) is also creating content fpr the pirate/gamker players. It's mutual.

Also: the system reward the more skilled miner, rewarding the one picking up the proper fit/ship, paying more attention, playing better.


Rand Allesteir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-01-06 16:25:38 UTC
Meyr wrote:

Expecting NPC rats to kill you, and learning to lose a ship, is a completely different experience from having another player come and gank you, and, if you've been in Eve Uni for longer than 20 minutes, you've been told that (unless they've changed drastically since I was there).

Rats won't kill your pod. You see rats, and you know that you need to kill them. You see another player, and MOST new players just look, and either wonder what they're doing, or think (if they think at all) that it's not hostile.



Well thanks for agreeing with me, so you also think having a "tutorial" to "teach players how to avoid getting ganked" wouldn't work, because you'd need actual players doing the ganking? Glad we had this conversation.
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#51 - 2014-01-06 16:26:08 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Meyr wrote:
Again, we have readily defined and understandable goals for these actions.
What is the goal, then, of a typical miner gank, though?


Creating content, playing a game, having fun. these are the goals.

The ganking player (consciously or not) is creating content for the miner player.

In a classic theme park game system you'd have some kind of NPC or other AI mechanic to add challange to the miner gameplay, adding a premade content. In a sandbox/players driven game you have the players interactions doing it.

And of course the miner player (consciously or not) is also creating content fpr the pirate/gamker players. It's mutual.

Also: the system reward the more skilled miner, rewarding the one picking up the proper fit/ship, paying more attention, playing better.




Are you seriously going to state, in other words, that the hunter is creating content for the deer?

Really? Because, last time I checked, the deer got nothing out of it, the hunter got everything.

Unless you can teach the deer how to 'armor up' (since antlers don't offer much in the way of return fire against a high-powered rifle), it's ALWAYS going to be that way.

See? A nice analogy.Big smile
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-01-06 16:26:30 UTC
Whatever.

As long as we still get to ruin the OP's and like-minded individuals' day by destroying their assets, all is good in Eve.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#53 - 2014-01-06 16:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Moneta Curran wrote:
Whatever.

As long as we still get to ruin the OP's and like-minded individuals' day by destroying their assets, all is good in Eve.



"whatever as long as sociopathetic grief monkeys are happy", all is good in EVE?
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#54 - 2014-01-06 16:28:49 UTC
Rand Allesteir wrote:
Meyr wrote:

Expecting NPC rats to kill you, and learning to lose a ship, is a completely different experience from having another player come and gank you, and, if you've been in Eve Uni for longer than 20 minutes, you've been told that (unless they've changed drastically since I was there).

Rats won't kill your pod. You see rats, and you know that you need to kill them. You see another player, and MOST new players just look, and either wonder what they're doing, or think (if they think at all) that it's not hostile.



Well thanks for agreeing with me, so you also think having a "tutorial" to "teach players how to avoid getting ganked" wouldn't work, because you'd need actual players doing the ganking? Glad we had this conversation.


This is just sad. Go to Kelduum, and tell him you need a spanking, because you can't pay attention in class.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#55 - 2014-01-06 16:28:51 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Ramona, can anyone dispute that Eve lacks sociopathic behavior, even by those who otherwise are not sociopaths?

Hell, I'm guilty of it myself, almost all of us are. I'll bet you are, too. Does that make us bad people in real life? Absolutely not.

Does that negatively influence subscriber retention? Again, undoubtedly.

Can you really argue against giving new players a definitive taste of what awaits them in the 'real' Eve?


Oh, and the "sociopath", "irrational" arguments aren't that great.

One could argue it saying that what is sociopath and irrational is spending their free time watchin a number (ISK or ORE) increasing and considering this "fun" or the final goal of a game.

Everyone is entiteled to their idea of "fun" and searching for it.
Pewty McPew
EVE Corporation 2357451
#56 - 2014-01-06 16:28:59 UTC
Sure, make the new players quit before even finishing the tutorial.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-01-06 16:29:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Moneta Curran
Nerf Burger wrote:
Moneta Curran wrote:
Whatever.

As long as we still get to ruin the OP's and like-minded individuals' day by destroying their assets, all is good in Eve.



whatever as long as sociopathetic grief monkeys are happy, all is good in EVE?

sounds like a game I wouldn't want to play.


Yes. I don't care how you label it to justify your frustration.

You are free to quit at any time.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#58 - 2014-01-06 16:30:04 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
BUUUURRRRRRP.



Tsk

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Treborr MintingtonJr
S.N.O.T
S.N.O.T.
#59 - 2014-01-06 16:33:25 UTC
Quote:
With no strategic or economic benefit from this action, the only justification for it is psychological, meaning that it is simply the satisfaction derived by one person resulting from the destruction of another person or their assets. Pleasure resulting from destruction for no gain is not an inherent trait in most people. It's the behavior of a bully.



(I've skimmed most of the thread not going to lie)



I can't get over this paragraph, I would like to state that this is just a game, losing ships should be expected and destroying other people's assets is one of the core philosophies of this game. If a person finds an easy target and decides to kill them, why shouldn't they? I live in Null loads of people swarm in for the sole purpose of killing our miners, they are easy to kill. Are they dishonorable for not swarming in for a fair fight? imo no, its just part of the game and we have learned to live with it and defend against.


I can't say I know every situation where a miner has been "ganked", but what if they were afk? Thats a good reason to kill them, they aren't exactly playing the game if they are not there! They could be a bot. How about if you were just defending your favourite Asteroids? I'm quite keen on Massive Scordite myself.


I would disagree that a ganker gains nothing. They gain the loot thats not destroyed. Also isk efficiency. Maybe the ganker has distrupted a rivals supply line?



Bullying is such a strong word to use for ganking, I would only use this word if there was repeated physical or verbal abuse. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't gankers receive hate mails containing profanity and death threats, I would call that bullying.





I've noticed you've put up a lot of similar sounding threads so I just wanted to know what happened to give you these opinions.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#60 - 2014-01-06 16:34:40 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Are you seriously going to state, in other words, that the hunter is creating content for the deer?


Actually, yes.

Even if I disagree on the hunter/deer analogy, here I suspect the the strongee, ritcher and dominant one, in the end, tend to be the "deer".

But if you like the analogy, yes. A world with only deers and no hunter would lead them to starvation. Huge amount of ores nobody needs or want to buy. And to never evolve, since makes no difference if you're good or bad in your profession.