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Disappearing UI

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CCP Snorlax
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-01-06 14:09:39 UTC
We have spent a lot of time investigating the issue of disappearing UI, especially when running fullscreen in DX11.

We have finally been able to reproduce a similar issue in an engine stress test, and are pretty sure this is the same underlying issue as the one causing windows in the EVE UI to disappear.

We are working with Nvidia to find a proper solution as this seems to be an issue in Nvidia drivers.

In the meantime, we have found that changing a setting in the Nvidia Control Panel helps in most cases - change 'Maximum pre-rendered frames' to 1, instead of the default.

If you experience this issue frequently and run on an Nvidia card, please try changing this setting and post your results here.

If anyone experiences this and is not on an Nvidia card I would also like to hear about it.

CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB - @CCP_Snorlax - http://ccpsnorlax.blogspot.is/
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#2 - 2014-01-06 18:36:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
While sitting in station:

On my system in fullscreen mode the client uses up main system memory at approx 32MB a minute and VRAM at 10x that approx 300MB a minute until all VRAM is used up at which point strange things happen, firstly the UI elements randomly dissapearing, graphics lag and in extreme cases rendering the wrong images on an item. If I alt-tab or swap to window mode the client goes unresponsive for quite awhile and sometimes crashes but usually will then start responding again with the VRAM reset to the normal 300-400MB and the whole thing starts again once I return to fullscreen.

If left long enough without interacting with the client it eventually hits the max amount of system memory a process can be allocated and crashes.

When using fixed window or windowed modes the system memory use by the eve client stays at a constant 630MB (give or take a few kb) and the VRAM is between 300-400MB used.

This happens on 2 different systems, both using intel i7 CPUs, 16GB RAM and one having a GTX675m (laptop) the other GTX780 (desktop) using any of the recent nVidia 331.xx drivers and Windows 7 home premium.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#3 - 2014-01-06 18:42:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Now testing with maximum pre-rendered frames set to 1 - fullscreen mode is working the same as fixed window, etc. and so far not causing the memory leak. That is one strange bug.

So for me using either non-fullscreen rendering modes or setting pre-render limit to 1 in fullscreen works around this issue.

(I usually use 1 anyway as many games are slightly more responsive with it but had it set to 2 for awhile as in Battlefield 4 it sorts some microstutter issues when using SLI - the 780 is a recent upgrade from a previous SLI setup).
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-01-06 20:20:08 UTC
CCP Snorlax wrote:
We have spent a lot of time investigating the issue of disappearing UI, especially when running fullscreen in DX11.

We have finally been able to reproduce a similar issue in an engine stress test, and are pretty sure this is the same underlying issue as the one causing windows in the EVE UI to disappear.

We are working with Nvidia to find a proper solution as this seems to be an issue in Nvidia drivers.

In the meantime, we have found that changing a setting in the Nvidia Control Panel helps in most cases - change 'Maximum pre-rendered frames' to 1, instead of the default.

If you experience this issue frequently and run on an Nvidia card, please try changing this setting and post your results here.

If anyone experiences this and is not on an Nvidia card I would also like to hear about it.

well damn, sure as hell hope i dotn have to upgrade my nvidia drivers, anything higher than the old drivers i have causes the 560 ti to burn and die, and i cant afford to drop a couple hudnred bucks on a 760 or anything for at least a couple motnhs What?
Vrak Ikkala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-01-06 21:27:37 UTC
What CCp Snorlax forgot:
How to make the setting:
Open Nvidia Control Panel
Select manage 3D settings
Under global settings (right pane) set maximum pre-rendered frames to 1
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#6 - 2014-01-06 22:16:04 UTC
You can also do it on a per application basis and set it so only eve online has a render ahead setting of 1.
Sarah Nalelmir
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-01-07 09:02:38 UTC
CCP Snorlax wrote:
We have spent a lot of time investigating the issue of disappearing UI, especially when running fullscreen in DX11.

We have finally been able to reproduce a similar issue in an engine stress test, and are pretty sure this is the same underlying issue as the one causing windows in the EVE UI to disappear.

We are working with Nvidia to find a proper solution as this seems to be an issue in Nvidia drivers.

In the meantime, we have found that changing a setting in the Nvidia Control Panel helps in most cases - change 'Maximum pre-rendered frames' to 1, instead of the default.

If you experience this issue frequently and run on an Nvidia card, please try changing this setting and post your results here.

If anyone experiences this and is not on an Nvidia card I would also like to hear about it.


Hi Snortax

I had been having this issue and it was driving me crazy but now Ive stumbled across this I will give it a try.

What is the default value ? will changing it to 1 have an impact on performance ?

If it helps im running

I7 2600k @ 4ghz
Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD7-B3 Mobo with 1600mhz 16GB DDR3 Corsair memory
EVGA GTX 780TI SLI SC edition cards
Windows 8.1
Latest Nvidia driver as of end of Dec
LG 27 inch Monitor at 1920 x 1080


I don't have direct x 9 installed nor do I want to use direct x 9 as 11 looks so good !!

I find it happens mostly when Im multi tasking UI windows such as character + skill tree + market + fittings at the same time

It happens on average at least once per session for me. Doesn't matter if I alt tab out or not, I find I have to leave the client alone and the windows come back for me after 5 mins which would possibly indicate something crashing then re-loading something in the driver ? its not a full drive crash as EVE client stays open but UI disappears and frame rate bottoms out.

Interestingly, if I have skill tree open when it disappears, I can still drag stuff (blindly ie random click and drag and im lucky to hit something to drag it) and the book icon appears, almost as if the UI is still there but cloaked ? :P
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#8 - 2014-01-07 17:03:20 UTC
Higher numbers for the pre-rendered frames will give higher performance (its less than a 5% difference usually) and smoother gameplay but at the expense of input latency so the game might feel more laggy even though its smoother and higher fps.

Anyone who spends much time playing FPS games will probably have it at 1 or 2 anyhow most other people probably have it left at default 3 - the difference is marginal. I usually set it to 1 myself but had it at 2 to try and solve issues with another game heh.
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#9 - 2014-01-07 19:08:34 UTC
CCP Snorlax wrote:


In the meantime, we have found that changing a setting in the Nvidia Control Panel helps in most cases - change 'Maximum pre-rendered frames' to 1, instead of the default.


Seems to have done the trick for me. Thanks a million _o_

GPU: 2x Geforce GTX 580 Classified Ultra
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3960X @ 4.20GHz
Memory: 30.00 GB RAM (29.98 GB usable)
Current resolution: 2560 x 1600,60Hz
Driver version: 332.21
Operating system: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate

Hope this can help you resolve this issue.

Good luck and thanks for your effort,

Radius o/



Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#10 - 2014-01-07 19:14:07 UTC
Radius Prime wrote:
CCP Snorlax wrote:


In the meantime, we have found that changing a setting in the Nvidia Control Panel helps in most cases - change 'Maximum pre-rendered frames' to 1, instead of the default.


Seems to have done the trick for me. Thanks a million _o_

GPU: 2x Geforce GTX 580 Classified Ultra
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3960X @ 4.20GHz
Memory: 30.00 GB RAM (29.98 GB usable)
Current resolution: 2560 x 1600,60Hz
Driver version: 332.21
Operating system: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate

Hope this can help you resolve this issue.

Good luck and thanks for your effort,

Radius o/





Problem is back, just took a bit longer for it to appear. About 15 mins, then interface crashes.

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#11 - 2014-01-07 19:17:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Radius Prime
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
CCP Snorlax wrote:
We have spent a lot of time investigating the issue of disappearing UI, especially when running fullscreen in DX11.

We have finally been able to reproduce a similar issue in an engine stress test, and are pretty sure this is the same underlying issue as the one causing windows in the EVE UI to disappear.

We are working with Nvidia to find a proper solution as this seems to be an issue in Nvidia drivers.

In the meantime, we have found that changing a setting in the Nvidia Control Panel helps in most cases - change 'Maximum pre-rendered frames' to 1, instead of the default.

If you experience this issue frequently and run on an Nvidia card, please try changing this setting and post your results here.

If anyone experiences this and is not on an Nvidia card I would also like to hear about it.

well damn, sure as hell hope i dotn have to upgrade my nvidia drivers, anything higher than the old drivers i have causes the 560 ti to burn and die, and i cant afford to drop a couple hudnred bucks on a 760 or anything for at least a couple motnhs What?


Upgrading wont help resolve this problem as the problem is the driver itself. Also from 5 series upward to 7 series the same drivers are used. Am running the latest Nvidia driver atm and it's killing the game.

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#12 - 2014-01-07 21:14:47 UTC
Try without SLI it might be that SLI by its nature is effectively building extra frames and somehow causing the same problem and/or try using fixed window instead.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-01-08 07:27:26 UTC
Radius Prime wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
CCP Snorlax wrote:
We have spent a lot of time investigating the issue of disappearing UI, especially when running fullscreen in DX11.

We have finally been able to reproduce a similar issue in an engine stress test, and are pretty sure this is the same underlying issue as the one causing windows in the EVE UI to disappear.

We are working with Nvidia to find a proper solution as this seems to be an issue in Nvidia drivers.

In the meantime, we have found that changing a setting in the Nvidia Control Panel helps in most cases - change 'Maximum pre-rendered frames' to 1, instead of the default.

If you experience this issue frequently and run on an Nvidia card, please try changing this setting and post your results here.

If anyone experiences this and is not on an Nvidia card I would also like to hear about it.

well damn, sure as hell hope i dotn have to upgrade my nvidia drivers, anything higher than the old drivers i have causes the 560 ti to burn and die, and i cant afford to drop a couple hudnred bucks on a 760 or anything for at least a couple motnhs What?


Upgrading wont help resolve this problem as the problem is the driver itself. Also from 5 series upward to 7 series the same drivers are used. Am running the latest Nvidia driver atm and it's killing the game.

Oh i know the same drivers are used, i just also know Nvidia has admitted some of their drivers have some issues with games, and my drivers are like 2 years old because all the newer ones ive tried have caused near-fatal conflicts with my 560 ti.

just expressing concern that any fix to this issue might require me to upgrade the drivers or something.


On that note, oddly havent had the UI crash in a couple days on any of my accounts.
Aratreb
End-of-Line
#14 - 2014-01-08 08:12:59 UTC
In the Nvidia control panel under the programs tab for Eve I changed 'Maximum pre-rendered frames' to 1 but I'm still experiencing UI elements disappearing.

Flet victus, victor interiit.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#15 - 2014-01-09 19:09:09 UTC
Had to change all my clients back to fixed window again - had it happen again today in fullscreen even with pre-render set to 1 after a few hours of the client sitting idle. Seems like a setting of 1 delays and/or massively reduces the chance of it happening but doesn't entirely fix it. So far never had it happen with fixed window. Fixed window isn't ideal though as it doesn't always ramp up GPU clocks fully though its not a problem on my 780 it can be on slower GPUs.
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#16 - 2014-01-10 22:08:21 UTC
Are the devs still on this? Would appreciate a response. Guess this weekend is a goner..

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#17 - 2014-01-10 22:10:11 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Try without SLI it might be that SLI by its nature is effectively building extra frames and somehow causing the same problem and/or try using fixed window instead.


Didn't work for me. Thx for the suggestion tho.

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#18 - 2014-01-11 18:37:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Radius Prime wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Try without SLI it might be that SLI by its nature is effectively building extra frames and somehow causing the same problem and/or try using fixed window instead.


Didn't work for me. Thx for the suggestion tho.


From playing around it seems that setting render ahead limit to 1 only delays the problems for the most part and seems SLI reduces how much its delayed by.

Using fixed window mode works for me as a temp fix but its not ideal as the GPU doesn't ramp upto full clocks and it doesn't always work properly with SLI (seems sometimes you alt-tab and SLI drops out and you get only one card worth of performance until you restart the client - this is an SLI issue not a problem with the eve client as such).
Morgaztra
Happy Fluffy Lala Land
#19 - 2014-01-12 06:20:43 UTC
Curious what would have caused this. Nvidia wanted me to update drivers a day or two ago but since the latest drivers they put have been causing issues in World of Tanks, I kept old drivers running and had no issues.

Suddenly this issue pops up in EVE even tho I havn't changed any software at all. That mini-patch some days ago on the EVE client would be the only possible cause afaik?
Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
#20 - 2014-01-13 10:28:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Omega Sunset
I had this happen a couple weeks ago. Yes with a geforce card and dx11 on full screen, win7. I was spinning station selling inventory. Slowly started slowing down, then UI windows started closing out one after the other at about 30secs each. Then it sat there for a couple minutes with no UI and could not access the menu to close the client. Finally the client crahsed/closed. Happened once, and not sense then. Client started back up with no issues.

Oh and my drivers were up to date, I have the update checker running. I didnt update last week to the latest drivers, I usually wait a week or two, but that was after the crash.

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