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Returning from a long break,,,,, question about griefers
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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#161 - 2014-01-06 22:53:15 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
[Now I think it's clear why I do not favor most changes. Not that this is necessarily a bad idea but it does prevent a group of players from doing what they want to do.

And the other reason I generally don't like changes. The smallest change, in order for it to fulfill it's intended consequences, would require another small change here and another and another.

Good intentions to be sure, but the implementation and fallout could be unforeseeably (yes I'm making up words) catastrophic or catastrophically unforeseeable.
MMOs have to change though. If they stay the same way forever, they die. They need to adapt and evolve to the community to keep people both challenged and interested.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#162 - 2014-01-06 22:54:15 UTC
Rick II Egnald wrote:
and will focus instead on Elder Scrolls Online in a few months.


I will be checking that out too. Though Eve will still be my guilty pleasure.


"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#163 - 2014-01-06 22:56:21 UTC
Rick II Egnald wrote:
Repeatedly bumping someone who is mining to keep them from mining and demanding a ransom to stop the bumping is not an accident.... it would be termed more as a form of in game extortion.

Miners have no ability to retaliate in .9 or 1.0 space against someone who repeatedly follows them from belt to belt for hours constantly bumping them off their asteroids.

I did pack up and move about 16 jumps out and hopefully that will solve the problem for a while.


Repeatedly bumping someone for an hour and chasing them through all the belts in a system with the sole purpose of keeping them from enjoying what they pay money to do is nothing but harassment plain and simple. Demanding a ransom to stop the activity should be a should be considered as proof that it is not "accidental" and should be a bannable offense considering there is a chat log of the conversation.


I seriously doubt at this point I will renew either of my accounts once my 6 months expires at this point and will focus instead on Elder Scrolls Online in a few months.


Mining is what attracted me to this game, its peaceful and quiet and I enjoy doing it.



Maybe you missed the part where if he's following you that you can petition CCP on grounds of harrassment as you astutely noted it is :)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Bobby Frutt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2014-01-06 23:03:16 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Great post, thanks.

Confirming 4/5 of your likes are from self-created forum alts and buddy system "like" orgies.

:D
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#165 - 2014-01-06 23:05:54 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
[Now I think it's clear why I do not favor most changes. Not that this is necessarily a bad idea but it does prevent a group of players from doing what they want to do.

And the other reason I generally don't like changes. The smallest change, in order for it to fulfill it's intended consequences, would require another small change here and another and another.

Good intentions to be sure, but the implementation and fallout could be unforeseeably (yes I'm making up words) catastrophic or catastrophically unforeseeable.
MMOs have to change though. If they stay the same way forever, they die. They need to adapt and evolve to the community to keep people both challenged and interested.


Agreed provided the changes do not hinder a group of people from doing what they want to do,

Miners mine - they claim that gankers prevent them from doing so but this is a gross exaggeration because there are not enough gankers to kill every single miner in the game and those times that a miner isn't ganked they are happily mining away while likely being AFK in a Shitfitriever. But they can still do what they want.

Mission runners run missions - PvP enthusiasts will still flip wrecks and bait and ransom objectives but these instances are few (happened to me once in 6 years - 4th room of Angel Extravaganza poor bastard burned out his warp scram and I escaped in my RNI which I then promptly sold so as not to be such a juicy target). As the incidences of these encounters is rare for someone not flying a pimped out loot sandwich, mission runners can still do what they want to do.

AWOXers, while as I said are not loved by their victims, have their own playstyle. I would imagine it requires that an individual be extraordinarily clever and creative. This change would eliminate their ability to do what they want in any way and does not solve the issue it is intended to solve: people hanging out in NPC corps. Can you think of any other change that would encourage departure from NPC Corps without debilitating any playstyles? A tough question I know but important nonetheless.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Bobby Frutt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2014-01-06 23:09:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobby Frutt
Back on topic.

1) CCP can't really do anything about griefing without ruining the freedom of the game. They could be harsher with communications perhaps - ban people for simply being rude or douchey - and thus lessen the amount of actual victimizing. But CODE. walks that line quite well. They are rarely actually rude or at all insulting.

2) Most griefers are somewhat sociopathic, mainly stemming from childhood issues such as bullying at school or a lack of proper parenting. In understanding that we can defend the freedom of the game, but we shouldn't really defend the griefers for using that freedom in such a manner.

The funny thing is when you tell griefers this, they will call it your "tears" and laugh it off. Yet I have seen over a dozen times, these griefers defend themselves as not being sociopaths on their blogs and forum threads. Clearly, it does bother them. :D
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#167 - 2014-01-06 23:21:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bobby Frutt wrote:
Back on topic.

1) CCP can't really do anything about griefing without ruining the freedom of the game. They could be harsher with communications perhaps - ban people for simply being rude or douchey - and thus lessen the amount of actual victimizing. But CODE. walks that line quite well. They are rarely actually rude or at all insulting.

2) Most griefers are somewhat sociopathic, mainly stemming from childhood issues such as bullying at school or a lack of proper parenting. In understanding that we can defend the freedom of the game, but we shouldn't really defend the griefers for using that freedom in such a manner.

The funny thing is when you tell griefers this, they will call it your "tears" and laugh it off. Yet I have seen over a dozen times, these griefers defend themselves as not being sociopaths on their blogs and forum threads. Clearly, it does bother them. :D
Of course it bothers them, mental illness carries a very real social stigma. You appear to have arbitrarily based your diagnosis of sociopath on actions carried out in a video game, where those actions are allowed and considered legal.

Are you or any of the other people calling people sociopaths qualified mental health practitioners who've actually spoken to these deviants or did you just read wikipedia and make this crap up?

My vote is for wikipedia and crap.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#168 - 2014-01-06 23:28:22 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
crap.


Correct.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#169 - 2014-01-07 00:08:32 UTC
Bobby Frutt wrote:
2) Most griefers are somewhat sociopathic, mainly stemming from childhood issues such as bullying at school or a lack of proper parenting.
…and this is based on, what, exactly?
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#170 - 2014-01-07 00:14:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bobby Frutt wrote:
2) Most griefers are somewhat sociopathic, mainly stemming from childhood issues such as bullying at school or a lack of proper parenting.
…and this is based on, what, exactly?


The slip of paper from the inside of a fortune cookie.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#171 - 2014-01-07 00:15:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bobby Frutt wrote:
2) Most griefers are somewhat sociopathic, mainly stemming from childhood issues such as bullying at school or a lack of proper parenting.
…and this is based on, what, exactly?


Hearsay and conjecture. Alternatively, it could be that it was just pulled from someones ass.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2014-01-07 00:15:47 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Well, good sir, it is your lucky day.

For 10mil isk, and your fealty to the Savior of High Sec, James 315, expressed in your bio...

You can mine with zero harassment for a year!!!!

Otherwise, Agents of the New Order will continue to bump you to prevent you from becoming bot-aspirant.

Permit tank is best tank. Don't risk a red pen violation. Also visit www.minerbumping.com, to learn about the Code, and how to make high-sec a better place for all!!!

As an added bonus, I now also offer forum permits for returning players.

To post in any manner you choose, you can pay an additional 10mil isk to me.

For this you must swear fealty to Unsuccessful At Everything as the saviour of General Discussion.

oo! I want a forum permit! How do I know that you are the valid retailer for these though? I'd much rather give my money directly to unsucessful at everything.

To the OP: By attempting to mine in high security space, you have put yourself under the domain of James 315. Please pay your dues to an appropriate agent. By following the code you will help finance the destruction of bots and bot-aspirants, while simultaneously protecting yourself from bumping and ganking, not just form the new order, but also from more nefarious organizations. If you would prefer to take a stronger stance against botting in eve, there is plenty of information at www.minerbumping.com to help you do so.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2014-01-07 00:41:55 UTC
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:


Bumping for an hour and/or over multiple systems without a reason is bannable. If you have a reason such as enforcing the will of the savior of highsec, AKA James 315, then it is perfectly legal and within the limits of the EULA/TOS.

No, even with reason it counts as harassment/griefing and is bannable if taken too far.

James 315 can not stalk people, nor 'happen' to have an alt in every system a particular miner flees to.

If he stakes out a system a week and moves systems every sunday, and they happen to pick the wrong next system, well that's a different thing, since the GM's can see his pattern of bumping. But a reason is not sufficient excuse to grief someone.


It is completely within the EULA/TOS. I don't care how wrong you think I am, but I am right. I have had many harassment/griefer petitions filed against me but because I was enforcing the code and not doing it without a purpose they were all unfounded. I would go into it further but that would mean discussing GM stuff on the forums, which is against the EULA/TOS, unlike enforcing the CODE.


Well you know what, you should do this while being outside an alliance or an NPC corp so that the victim can wardec your corp in response to your behaviour. It think when this is done by people in your position it should be punishable.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#174 - 2014-01-07 00:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ubat Batuk wrote:
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:


Bumping for an hour and/or over multiple systems without a reason is bannable. If you have a reason such as enforcing the will of the savior of highsec, AKA James 315, then it is perfectly legal and within the limits of the EULA/TOS.

No, even with reason it counts as harassment/griefing and is bannable if taken too far.

James 315 can not stalk people, nor 'happen' to have an alt in every system a particular miner flees to.

If he stakes out a system a week and moves systems every sunday, and they happen to pick the wrong next system, well that's a different thing, since the GM's can see his pattern of bumping. But a reason is not sufficient excuse to grief someone.


It is completely within the EULA/TOS. I don't care how wrong you think I am, but I am right. I have had many harassment/griefer petitions filed against me but because I was enforcing the code and not doing it without a purpose they were all unfounded. I would go into it further but that would mean discussing GM stuff on the forums, which is against the EULA/TOS, unlike enforcing the CODE.


Well you know what, you should do this while being outside an alliance or an NPC corp so that the victim can wardec your corp in response to your behaviour. It think when this is done by people in your position it should be punishable.
So it's ok for miners to hide from wardecs in NPC corps or large alliances, but not gankers? Ok got it Roll

FYI his alliance isn't that big, it would cost a mere 87 and a bit million isk to wardec his entire alliance as opposed to 50 million for a one man corp, besides they'd love people to wardec them, but the majority of the people who'd like to do so are hiding in an NPC corp, so they can't.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2014-01-07 00:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
I have to correct myself.

The issue aren't carebears in starter corps, the issue are you people who complain about them.

There is no good, unless it is being done.

The reason for the situation we have is because you don't do it. You just whine. Disgusting!


No need to attack people that agree with you. Encouraging action is good, but spin is important. Before you say anything about me, I spend a good deal of my time in the public E-Uni chat channel and try to help players find activities that might interest them. The other day I saw someone asking about missions because he was bored of level 2's and the response from multiple players was that "Level 4's make more isk". I messaged the player and got him some resources to get started in faction warfare. I too am sick of the tutorial straight into pve setup for the new player experience, but ranting on someones else's rant thread is not the way to go.

Ubat Batuk wrote:
Well you know what, you should do this while being outside an alliance or an NPC corp so that the victim can wardec your corp in response to your behaviour. It think when this is done by people in your position it should be punishable.

They can wardec us just fine while we're in an alliance thank you. There are plenty of wars going on with NODD at all times. Hell, we start some of them.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#176 - 2014-01-07 00:53:38 UTC
Rick II Egnald wrote:
Repeatedly bumping someone who is mining to keep them from mining and demanding a ransom to stop the bumping is not an accident.... it would be termed more as a form of in game extortion.

Miners have no ability to retaliate in .9 or 1.0 space against someone who repeatedly follows them from belt to belt for hours constantly bumping them off their asteroids.

I did pack up and move about 16 jumps out and hopefully that will solve the problem for a while.


Repeatedly bumping someone for an hour and chasing them through all the belts in a system with the sole purpose of keeping them from enjoying what they pay money to do is nothing but harassment plain and simple. Demanding a ransom to stop the activity should be a should be considered as proof that it is not "accidental" and should be a bannable offense considering there is a chat log of the conversation.


I seriously doubt at this point I will renew either of my accounts once my 6 months expires at this point and will focus instead on Elder Scrolls Online in a few months.


Mining is what attracted me to this game, its peaceful and quiet and I enjoy doing it.


Can't blame ya man. EVE is still a joke with regards on how it deals with high sec "pirates". Maybe CCP will pull their head out of their ass one day.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#177 - 2014-01-07 00:59:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Bobby Frutt wrote:
2) Most griefers are somewhat sociopathic, mainly stemming from childhood issues such as bullying at school or a lack of proper parenting.
…and this is based on, what, exactly?


Hearsay and conjecture. Alternatively, it could be that it was just pulled from someones ass.


or you know... psychology textbooks. That is a serious case of denial you have. Are you really denying the existence of sociopaths? Lol

haven't you clowned yourself in this thread enough already? lol.

so many uneducated bumpkins in this thread.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#178 - 2014-01-07 00:59:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Nerf Burger wrote:

Can't blame ya man. EVE is still a joke with regards on how it deals with high sec "pirates". Maybe CCP will pull their head out of their ass one day.
CCP have no need to do anything of the sort, they're not in that particular predicament. Speaking of heads and arses, how's the view from there?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#179 - 2014-01-07 01:03:12 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
Rick II Egnald wrote:
Repeatedly bumping someone who is mining to keep them from mining and demanding a ransom to stop the bumping is not an accident.... it would be termed more as a form of in game extortion.

Miners have no ability to retaliate in .9 or 1.0 space against someone who repeatedly follows them from belt to belt for hours constantly bumping them off their asteroids.

I did pack up and move about 16 jumps out and hopefully that will solve the problem for a while.


Repeatedly bumping someone for an hour and chasing them through all the belts in a system with the sole purpose of keeping them from enjoying what they pay money to do is nothing but harassment plain and simple. Demanding a ransom to stop the activity should be a should be considered as proof that it is not "accidental" and should be a bannable offense considering there is a chat log of the conversation.


I seriously doubt at this point I will renew either of my accounts once my 6 months expires at this point and will focus instead on Elder Scrolls Online in a few months.


Mining is what attracted me to this game, its peaceful and quiet and I enjoy doing it.


Can't blame ya man. EVE is still a joke with regards on how it deals with high sec "pirates". Maybe CCP will pull their head out of their ass one day.



Big Fat NOOPEEE.

CCP doesn't play this game for us, it gives us the tools to do everything ourselves. It's your choice to use them or not.
Don't complain about things you didn't do, only things that you couldn't.

Example: probing down a titan and bumping it during E-Warp

Players use skills in fitting ships, scanning and organisation to destroy a titan ((albeit later being declared an exploit)
This was changed because the Titan pilot had no way to respond to the situation with systems disabled in E-Warp.)

Miner sucking rocks is bumped out of range,

CCP does nothing. Miner cries on forums. CCP still does nothing.

Let us analyze the differences, Miner could move to new system/space/area, Join a player corp and wardecc bumper, Could shoot him in the face and get concorded anyway, could hire mercs,. so forth.

Did Miner take any proactive steps to solve his problem?
Did Titan pilot take any proactive steps to solve his problem?

Could Miner take any proactive steps to solve his problem?
Could Titan pilot take any proactive steps to solve his problem?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#180 - 2014-01-07 01:04:00 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:

Can't blame ya man. EVE is still a joke with regards on how it deals with high sec "pirates". Maybe CCP will pull their head out of their ass one day.
CCP have no need to do anything of the sort, they're not in that particular predicament. Speaking heads and arses, hows the view from there?



I feel the need to introduce NB to the pot.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."