EVE General Discussion

They could tank their ships.


Which, is silly. Just tank your ship, you'll deter the vast majority of ganks.


It's easier to avoid being ganked than it is to gank. If you're thinking otherwise, perhaps you should actually try ganking with the New Order. You'll learn a few things.


How hard is it to fit shield mods & rigs? Honestly?

They could try being a less desirable target for a start. Appropriate ships and fits, not going afk in space, and not flying loot pinatas are all good. Gankers generally go for the easy or profitable targets, not being an easy or profitable target is a logical step.

You should try ganking before you dismiss it as easy, I've done it myself (under the auspices of learning how gankers work so that I don't get ganked), and seen the amount of organisation and time people expend setting up insta-undocks, rallying fleets, scouting for targets, pre-prepping Concord etc. It's not a no effort lifestyle, it's not a guaranteed I win tactic and certainly doesn't cost next to nothing unless you're only counting the ISK. The only part most people see is the gank itself, the background work is generally unacknowledged, especially by those who can't be arsed to put effort into their own gameplay.

As an "experienced anti ganker" you should be encouraging people to use the Crimewatch mechanic to hunt down and kill gankers, the risks involved in highsec ganking are directly proportional to the amount of effort that people put into making it risky. No effort from anti gankers/ disgruntled victims = no risk for gankers.

You should also be telling them to look for the gankers industrial and financial backbones, and attacking them, the information is relatively easy to find if you look for it. Gankers aren't just magicking ships from the ether, they often have contacts/alts in industrial corps that seed the market, or contracts at a preferential price. They aren't magicking ISK up either, people sponsor them, some because they want to see the world burn, some hire them to crap on the miners hiding in NPC corps and affecting their sales, others because it makes good business sense to do so as they are creating a demand in the market.

Ganking goes much much deeper down the rabbit hole than you think.

If you tank, you get bumped instead. And I have ganked with the new order. It's a requirement to understand how your enemy works. Gankign and bumping is considerably easier than not getting bumped/ganked if you take away the "run away" option. Seems a bit weird to be forced to run away by the mechanics. Seems doubly weird that gankers would complain that they think their vicitms are the ones that are acting entitled.

I've seen many non-AFK players get ganked, being bumped out of alignment by the scout prior to the gank. And if you are too tanked, they bump you, which is worse, because they can bump forever if they want to, meaning if you only have that one character, you can no longer play EVE until they decide to let you.

Ganking isn't hard. It's pretty much the easiest form of PvP IMO. It is however, significantly harder than mining.

An orbiting afterburner equipped Skiff begs to differ on your assessment of the easiness of not getting bumped or ganked.
Running away is a time honoured military tactic, commonly known as a strategic withdrawal.

Why were the non AFK pilots ganked and bumped? Were they in freighters and haulers carrying multi billion ISK loads? Were they flying a blinged out mission muncher? Were they using AP, which may as well be AFK?

If you're too tanked they bump you? Bollocks, they leave you alone and shoot a much easier target, gankers use scouts so that they know who has the most poorly fit ship in the belt. The man in the Procurer with a decent tank is much less likely to get ganked when there's a guy next to him in a Mackinaw whose fit consists of multiple MLUs and a civilian shield booster.

I never presented a sob story on the difficulty of ganking, I presented a fairly accurate representation of the effort involved in setting up for a gank. It's certainly harder than AFK mining or autopiloting your possessions across the universe, which is the sum total of effort that some people, usually the screaming victims of ganks, are willing to put in.

Meanwhile keep ignoring the salient points regarding Crimewatch and the fact that no effort from anti gankers/ disgruntled victims = no risk for gankers, and that gankers generally have an industrial backbone/ supply line that can be wardecced or otherwise interfered with.

I'm not going to lie. I think the bumping thing is mildly ********. If you want to annoy the miner just blow him up and be done with it. I suspect that while GMs reportedly aren't doing anything about it now, if there were enough petitions about it, at least from a support standpoint, they would have to figure out a way to make that problem go away.

TL;DR - less bump more shoot.

They've had plenty of petitions about the bumping, which is why there's a sticky in C&P regarding the GMs decision on the validity of it as a tactic.

Hey! My fleet was ice mining one time and you came in with your Blackbird. Scared all the gankers away! Seriously... they refused to even warp to grid with you there.

I appreciate that, thanks. I also think you should consider how this affects the debate of gankers vs gankees. It's like I said; your ONE Blackbird causes 3 gankers to flee system. Your simple presence did that.

What would happen if other miners brought Blackbirds along too? If that fleet of 6 Mackinaws droppped to 4 Macks and 2 Blackbirds...
And what if that fleet swapped in Procurers or Skiffs instead?

The extra EHP combined with the jamming power of Blackbird would mean they need an absolute minimum of 6 catalysts/thrashers to gank a single ship; and that's in 0.5. Realistically, against 2 Blackbirds, they would need something like 10 gank ships on average to take down a single Procurer/Skiff. One day I do expect some group to put the effort in to gank one of my procurers. When that day comes, I will laugh at them in local as I link their bill and compare it to mine.

There certainly are ways to defend yourself against gankers, it's just most people are not willing to leave the comfort of their Mackinaw while watching Spankwire.

Now, the topic of bumping is seriously different. My fleet is large enough so I can warp a bumped barge out, warp it back in, and resetup before my next barge is bumped away. Thus bumpers tend to leave me alone. However as you said... the guy with one account has few options. You are right IMO and I believe CCP should make it so ships pass through eachother when not engaged in combat. It won't look realistic and places like Jita will look ridiculous, but it's better than the current broken mechanic.

We've been over this. Avoiding a gank is as easy as flying the right ship, tanking it appropriately and not making it a loot pinata.

Bumping, while trickier to avoid is still easier to work around than it is to execute.

This man seems to get it, he's suggesting proactive measures to avoid being ganked.

The problem with this is that PvP/combat in Eve is often non consensual, and bumping is often used to buy time for a fleet to get into place for the pursuit of explosions and profit.