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Why nullsec sucks for anyone not in a giant corp/alliance - the perfect example

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Zleon Leigh
#101 - 2011-11-13 18:12:29 UTC
OP: "with a bunch of litter that decloaks me."

At some point this is an exploit, right?

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Morganta
The Greater Goon
#102 - 2011-11-13 18:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Morganta
Spymaster Alpha wrote:
Ok, so being my adventurous self I decided it was high time to get my ass out of highsec and learn about null. I figured a decent way to start with this would be to set up some ninja PI.

So, I get my crane, and fit it all nice and sexy cloaky like, and load up a bunch of command centers. I set a course for the Outer Ring (all NPC nullsec all the way), autopilot to the edge of highsec, and then start my trip through the deep dark.

I get 2 jumps in. I'm cloaked. I warp to 0 on the next gate. I somehow end up being pulled OFF the gate and into a bubble, with a bunch of litter that decloaks me. Locked and killed within 15 seconds.

So what did I do wrong? How is it even possible to avoid this? Manually warping to 0 in a cloaked ship, and there was absolutely NOTHING I could do to avoid this. This, obviously, is why anyone who doesn't have a massive corp to back them up doesn't like nullsec. It's impossible to go anywhere without getting shitkicked, even if you do everything right.

It seemed, from the little I saw, that nearly every gate had a bubble on it. So how does anyone get anywhere?


perches bro, perches

if you find an area you like get out there in a nice fast covops and set bookmarks 150-300km off the gates in a direction thats not in line with anything

while not foolproof (someone else's perch may be close to yours) it will keep you out of drag bubbles and grape cages and even without the litter a properly set drag can decloak you on the gate as you pass by it.

but yeah, cans and drones will decloak you, best to avoid bubbles altogether with bookmarks
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#103 - 2011-11-13 19:13:05 UTC
Justin Credulent wrote:
Jr Instructorcon wrote:
If you find yourself in a gate camp after going through a gate, and you are in a covert ops cloaked ship, you can survive as long as you keep your cool and properly assess the situation. If they have a HIC/DIC, and the bubble is not up, expect a delayed bubble. If they have a fast ship there, expect a decloak attempt. To escape a decloak attempt, orient your camera toward a perpendicular line away from the decloaker (Try for a 90 degree angle). Double click in space


Too late, already dead.


you're cloaked when you come out of a gate, you know. you have a whole lot of time to decide on your course of action.
Jita Alt666
#104 - 2011-11-13 19:14:21 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
To OP: Yeah they should really lose that whole gate bubble thing I mean if you put up a wall to null sec. you wont have a flood of people coming into it. And don't worry about PI. There is plenty o' planets in Empire space, and you can make a great living in EVE without ever going to Null sec.
To all that bookmarking jump here jump there I am so leet because I can evade a warp bubble sometimes, get over yourselves. All you know is how to make a tedious game more tedious. The OP did what the majority of what you said and he still got blown to bits. The best way to travel in Nullsec is with the biggest blob. Always has been. Always will be.


I really enjoyed this thread - until this post.

Eve is like chess. Learning the basic moves and learning how to counter them is challenging and enjoyable. The variety of ways a player can be tackled in 0.0 is immense. The variety of tricks used to avoid being tackled is also immense. Calling tactics tedious because they take time, forethought, and planning, makes me think less of you as a human being.

The op asked specific advice and got specific answers - he lasted for longer on his 2nd run. He then encountered a new tactic for which he has come back and asked for more advice. This process is called learning. The more complex the problems an individual wants to learn about, the complex the trial and error period.

If you choose to stay dumb that is your decision. However you chose to intentionally cut down a person who is attempting to learn, and then cut down those who are of their own free will, and in their own time, are willing to help another player learn. For this you need to be called out as what you are; an individual of weak intellect and weak character.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#105 - 2011-11-13 19:21:00 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Justin Credulent wrote:
Jr Instructorcon wrote:
If you find yourself in a gate camp after going through a gate, and you are in a covert ops cloaked ship, you can survive as long as you keep your cool and properly assess the situation. If they have a HIC/DIC, and the bubble is not up, expect a delayed bubble. If they have a fast ship there, expect a decloak attempt. To escape a decloak attempt, orient your camera toward a perpendicular line away from the decloaker (Try for a 90 degree angle). Double click in space


Too late, already dead.


you're cloaked when you come out of a gate, you know. you have a whole lot of time to decide on your course of action.


aim for shortest route out, align,MWD,cloak and warp to a safe or something the second you get out.
if you get decloaked, run full out with MWD, keep up your transversal. You are hard to target and hit when moving

of if you don't feel so lucky, try and burn back to the gate.
if you can, fire your warp drive to give the bubble pilot aggression so he can't follow you if by chance you get back to and through the gate Shocked
Mr LaboratoryRat
Confederation of DuckTape Lovers
#106 - 2011-11-13 19:36:21 UTC
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#107 - 2011-11-13 19:38:51 UTC
Justin Credulent wrote:
Jr Instructorcon wrote:
If you find yourself in a gate camp after going through a gate, and you are in a covert ops cloaked ship, you can survive as long as you keep your cool and properly assess the situation. If they have a HIC/DIC, and the bubble is not up, expect a delayed bubble. If they have a fast ship there, expect a decloak attempt. To escape a decloak attempt, orient your camera toward a perpendicular line away from the decloaker (Try for a 90 degree angle). Double click in space


Too late, already dead.



Must you flaunt your utter ignorance of how EVE works in every thread with "0.0" in the title?

Just because you failed so horribly doesn't mean everyone else has to emulate your failure.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#108 - 2011-11-13 20:18:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Justin Credulent wrote:
Jr Instructorcon wrote:
If you find yourself in a gate camp after going through a gate, and you are in a covert ops cloaked ship, you can survive as long as you keep your cool and properly assess the situation. If they have a HIC/DIC, and the bubble is not up, expect a delayed bubble. If they have a fast ship there, expect a decloak attempt. To escape a decloak attempt, orient your camera toward a perpendicular line away from the decloaker (Try for a 90 degree angle). Double click in space


Too late, already dead.



Must you flaunt your utter ignorance of how EVE works in every thread with "0.0" in the title?

Just because you failed so horribly doesn't mean everyone else has to emulate your failure.


Indeed.

Using the basic tactics outlined in this thread I have survived literally thousands of gate camps over the years.

Is it fool proof? No.

Do these steps give you a very high likely survival rate? Yes.

Complaining that being caught in a bubble is instant death, in the face of overwhelming testimony to the contrary (some of it coming from people who formerly thought the same as you) is much akin to saying that it is impossible to survive in the wilderness... simply because you don't know how.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#109 - 2011-11-13 20:23:38 UTC
Quote:
I am sure that most corps don't go around looking for targets who are armed and ready to blow stuff up unless they are at war with that corp. I have been part of a nullsec corp it is in some ways a whole lot like high sec.


Wait, what?

If you are in their space, without their permission, you will be shot as a trespasser in most cases.

Some corps in null sec restrict themselves to only shooting at people they are actively hostile with, but they are the minority. Mostly because it takes a lot of organization to keep track of your huge "red list" of people that will take advantage of your generosity and use it to ambush your people.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#110 - 2011-11-13 20:31:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
I am sure that most corps don't go around looking for targets who are armed and ready to blow stuff up unless they are at war with that corp. I have been part of a nullsec corp it is in some ways a whole lot like high sec.


Wait, what?

If you are in their space, without their permission, you will be shot as a trespasser in most cases.

Some corps in null sec restrict themselves to only shooting at people they are actively hostile with, but they are the minority. Mostly because it takes a lot of organization to keep track of your huge "red list" of people that will take advantage of your generosity and use it to ambush your people.



seriously.

in nullsec, if it aint blue, its an enemy and dead. no stupid formal declarations.

I have a feeling his "nullsec experience" comes from some BS RP alliance, like CVA.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#111 - 2011-11-13 20:51:57 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
To OP: Yeah they should really lose that whole gate bubble thing I mean if you put up a wall to null sec. you wont have a flood of people coming into it. And don't worry about PI. There is plenty o' planets in Empire space, and you can make a great living in EVE without ever going to Null sec.
To all that bookmarking jump here jump there I am so leet because I can evade a warp bubble sometimes, get over yourselves. All you know is how to make a tedious game more tedious. The OP did what the majority of what you said and he still got blown to bits. The best way to travel in Nullsec is with the biggest blob. Always has been. Always will be.


I really enjoyed this thread - until this post.

Eve is like chess. Learning the basic moves and learning how to counter them is challenging and enjoyable. The variety of ways a player can be tackled in 0.0 is immense. The variety of tricks used to avoid being tackled is also immense. Calling tactics tedious because they take time, forethought, and planning, makes me think less of you as a human being.

The op asked specific advice and got specific answers - he lasted for longer on his 2nd run. He then encountered a new tactic for which he has come back and asked for more advice. This process is called learning. The more complex the problems an individual wants to learn about, the complex the trial and error period.

If you choose to stay dumb that is your decision. However you chose to intentionally cut down a person who is attempting to learn, and then cut down those who are of their own free will, and in their own time, are willing to help another player learn. For this you need to be called out as what you are; an individual of weak intellect and weak character.

so after you have ducked and dodged your way through the great bubble camp that is 0.0 sec, then what do you do? Chess has an endgame. You make those tough decisions to ultimately win. So what did you gain from all that bookmarking warp here warp there? Did you get an opportunity to blow any enemies up? Did you get to rat some bounties? Did you escape with a boatload of PI components? the OP did not go to nullsec to "tackle" or evade tackle. I regret that I don't find jumping around in an internet spaceship learning like you do. I enjoy my college courses though. I don't have the time to find jumping around 5-10 times to get from point A to point B valuable entertainment when there are so many more productive things to do. I am not the only one who feels like this. Just look at the many complaints about nullsec. You will commonly find complaints about blobs. You obviously don't want to admit that the real problem is warp bubbles. After all it strongly encourages blobs, which is exactly what the OP is complaining about.
Luh Windan
green fish hat bang bang
#112 - 2011-11-13 21:06:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Luh Windan
Some interesting advice (and hopefully useful) advice here.

On Saturday I thought I might go and wet my toes in null. Scooted through low without problems - couple of sharks lurking but I've spent enough time in low to be getting over the 'rabbit in the headlights' thing and ducked and dived as one small group hunted me. Once past them I headed down to null and hit another bigger group who hunted me for a little while as well.

All fun but none of it conducive to isk making.

Next I hit a pipe which clearly had a number of camps and since I had set myself the goal of not getting podded until I had made back the cost of my ship ( < 30m but I had only ninja'ed 2 or 3 mil in rats) I explored the tiny pocket I was in and then headed back.

The pipes are the worst part - where I was going down I would have had to run two long pipes that were clearly full of camps before having any chance to do anything.

however - it did occur to me that a) either the people on this forum who are trying to get more people down to null are a vocal minority or b) the people of null sec are morons :- if you want prey, putting up a *very* effective barrier to them coming into your hunting ground is pretty much the worst approach ever.

For the record I suspect that the good people of null sec are mostly quite happy as it is and do not really want lots of highsec'rs wandering around pinching their resources......
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#113 - 2011-11-13 21:06:13 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
To OP: Yeah they should really lose that whole gate bubble thing I mean if you put up a wall to null sec. you wont have a flood of people coming into it. And don't worry about PI. There is plenty o' planets in Empire space, and you can make a great living in EVE without ever going to Null sec.
To all that bookmarking jump here jump there I am so leet because I can evade a warp bubble sometimes, get over yourselves. All you know is how to make a tedious game more tedious. The OP did what the majority of what you said and he still got blown to bits. The best way to travel in Nullsec is with the biggest blob. Always has been. Always will be.


I really enjoyed this thread - until this post.

Eve is like chess. Learning the basic moves and learning how to counter them is challenging and enjoyable. The variety of ways a player can be tackled in 0.0 is immense. The variety of tricks used to avoid being tackled is also immense. Calling tactics tedious because they take time, forethought, and planning, makes me think less of you as a human being.

The op asked specific advice and got specific answers - he lasted for longer on his 2nd run. He then encountered a new tactic for which he has come back and asked for more advice. This process is called learning. The more complex the problems an individual wants to learn about, the complex the trial and error period.

If you choose to stay dumb that is your decision. However you chose to intentionally cut down a person who is attempting to learn, and then cut down those who are of their own free will, and in their own time, are willing to help another player learn. For this you need to be called out as what you are; an individual of weak intellect and weak character.

so after you have ducked and dodged your way through the great bubble camp that is 0.0 sec, then what do you do? Chess has an endgame. You make those tough decisions to ultimately win. So what did you gain from all that bookmarking warp here warp there? Did you get an opportunity to blow any enemies up? Did you get to rat some bounties? Did you escape with a boatload of PI components? the OP did not go to nullsec to "tackle" or evade tackle. I regret that I don't find jumping around in an internet spaceship learning like you do. I enjoy my college courses though. I don't have the time to find jumping around 5-10 times to get from point A to point B valuable entertainment when there are so many more productive things to do. I am not the only one who feels like this. Just look at the many complaints about nullsec. You will commonly find complaints about blobs. You obviously don't want to admit that the real problem is warp bubbles. After all it strongly encourages blobs, which is exactly what the OP is complaining about.


What he wants to do there is none of our concern, that is his business. We simply pointed out that bubble camps are easily dealt with.

You see, that's the nice thing about bookmarks, once you invest time in making them they are yours forever... to use or copy as you see fit.

He can use his bookmarks to do any number of things... whether that be to sneak a cloaky transport in and out on a regular basis (they can also be fit to evade "bubbles on the blind side" quite efficiently), or a cyno alt to jump a jump freighter in and then back out to low sec when the coast is clear (if he is particularly balsy), or ghost a T3 ship in and out for ratting (or a stealth bomber for that matter if you are more concerned with bounties than loot), or even setting up a covert hot drop from empire if he is a member of a group that specializes in ganking Null Sec anomaly or mission runners, miners, or belt ratters.

That's not the point of the thread. He wanted to know how to get in and out without automatically getting popped in a bubble camp, and that was explained to him in detail.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
proxwar
Doomheim
#114 - 2011-11-13 21:07:07 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:


seriously.

in nullsec, if it aint blue, its an enemy and dead. no stupid formal declarations.



99% of null are blue to each other as it is.

Think i found the cause of all this 'null is dead/boring' drama.....Blink
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#115 - 2011-11-13 21:16:00 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
To OP: Yeah they should really lose that whole gate bubble thing I mean if you put up a wall to null sec. you wont have a flood of people coming into it. And don't worry about PI. There is plenty o' planets in Empire space, and you can make a great living in EVE without ever going to Null sec.
To all that bookmarking jump here jump there I am so leet because I can evade a warp bubble sometimes, get over yourselves. All you know is how to make a tedious game more tedious. The OP did what the majority of what you said and he still got blown to bits. The best way to travel in Nullsec is with the biggest blob. Always has been. Always will be.


I really enjoyed this thread - until this post.

Eve is like chess. Learning the basic moves and learning how to counter them is challenging and enjoyable. The variety of ways a player can be tackled in 0.0 is immense. The variety of tricks used to avoid being tackled is also immense. Calling tactics tedious because they take time, forethought, and planning, makes me think less of you as a human being.

The op asked specific advice and got specific answers - he lasted for longer on his 2nd run. He then encountered a new tactic for which he has come back and asked for more advice. This process is called learning. The more complex the problems an individual wants to learn about, the complex the trial and error period.

If you choose to stay dumb that is your decision. However you chose to intentionally cut down a person who is attempting to learn, and then cut down those who are of their own free will, and in their own time, are willing to help another player learn. For this you need to be called out as what you are; an individual of weak intellect and weak character.

so after you have ducked and dodged your way through the great bubble camp that is 0.0 sec, then what do you do? Chess has an endgame. You make those tough decisions to ultimately win. So what did you gain from all that bookmarking warp here warp there? Did you get an opportunity to blow any enemies up? Did you get to rat some bounties? Did you escape with a boatload of PI components? the OP did not go to nullsec to "tackle" or evade tackle. I regret that I don't find jumping around in an internet spaceship learning like you do. I enjoy my college courses though. I don't have the time to find jumping around 5-10 times to get from point A to point B valuable entertainment when there are so many more productive things to do. I am not the only one who feels like this. Just look at the many complaints about nullsec. You will commonly find complaints about blobs. You obviously don't want to admit that the real problem is warp bubbles. After all it strongly encourages blobs, which is exactly what the OP is complaining about.


What he wants to do there is none of our concern, that is his business. We simply pointed out that bubble camps are easily dealt with.

You see, that's the nice thing about bookmarks, once you invest time in making them they are yours forever... to use or copy as you see fit.

He can use his bookmarks to do any number of things... whether that be to sneak a cloaky transport in and out on a regular basis (they can also be fit to evade "bubbles on the blind side" quite efficiently), or a cyno alt to jump a jump freighter in and then back out to low sec when the coast is clear (if he is particularly balsy), or ghost a T3 ship in and out for ratting (or a stealth bomber for that matter if you are more concerned with bounties than loot), or even setting up a covert hot drop from empire if he is a member of a group that specializes in ganking Null Sec anomaly or mission runners, miners, or belt ratters.

That's not the point of the thread. He wanted to know how to get in and out without automatically getting popped in a bubble camp, and that was explained to him in detail.
Still tedious though isn't?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#116 - 2011-11-13 21:21:55 UTC
Quote:
Still tedious though isn't?


Making the initial book marks can be time consuming, and depending on the local traffic a bit nerve wracking at times.

I don't find slipping in and out of extremely hostile territory tedious. I find it challenging, especially if the people defending their territory know what they are doing.

If your definition of "not tedious" is being able to set your auto pilot and come back to your computer in 20 minutes, I can't help you, sorry. That's an issue at your end.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#117 - 2011-11-13 21:26:09 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
Still tedious though isn't?


Making the initial book marks can be time consuming, and depending on the local traffic a bit nerve wracking at times.

I don't find slipping in and out of extremely hostile territory tedious. I find it challenging, especially if the people defending their territory know what they are doing.

If your definition of "not tedious" is being able to set your auto pilot and come back to your computer in 20 minutes, I can't help you, sorry. That's an issue at your end.

My definitions of tedious: https://www.google.com/search?client=gmail&rls=gm&q=define%20tedious. Anyway you slice it, nullsec is tedious. Thank you for addressing some of the reasons why.
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#118 - 2011-11-13 21:34:21 UTC
I've been reading the tips to avoid warp bubbles at gates. Some point out that it as simple as using a covops ship...one that allows the use of MWD while cloaked.

Really?

So, what are you gonna' do in that thing once you get there? Rat some big boys in a covops ship?

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#119 - 2011-11-13 21:38:04 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
To OP: Yeah they should really lose that whole gate bubble thing I mean if you put up a wall to null sec. you wont have a flood of people coming into it. And don't worry about PI. There is plenty o' planets in Empire space, and you can make a great living in EVE without ever going to Null sec.
To all that bookmarking jump here jump there I am so leet because I can evade a warp bubble sometimes, get over yourselves. All you know is how to make a tedious game more tedious. The OP did what the majority of what you said and he still got blown to bits. The best way to travel in Nullsec is with the biggest blob. Always has been. Always will be.


I really enjoyed this thread - until this post.

Eve is like chess. Learning the basic moves and learning how to counter them is challenging and enjoyable. The variety of ways a player can be tackled in 0.0 is immense. The variety of tricks used to avoid being tackled is also immense. Calling tactics tedious because they take time, forethought, and planning, makes me think less of you as a human being.

The op asked specific advice and got specific answers - he lasted for longer on his 2nd run. He then encountered a new tactic for which he has come back and asked for more advice. This process is called learning. The more complex the problems an individual wants to learn about, the complex the trial and error period.

If you choose to stay dumb that is your decision. However you chose to intentionally cut down a person who is attempting to learn, and then cut down those who are of their own free will, and in their own time, are willing to help another player learn. For this you need to be called out as what you are; an individual of weak intellect and weak character.

so after you have ducked and dodged your way through the great bubble camp that is 0.0 sec, then what do you do? Chess has an endgame. You make those tough decisions to ultimately win.


Well speaking for myself, I make billions doing Angel missions in Curse.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#120 - 2011-11-13 21:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Elrich Kouvo
Malcanis wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
To OP: Yeah they should really lose that whole gate bubble thing I mean if you put up a wall to null sec. you wont have a flood of people coming into it. And don't worry about PI. There is plenty o' planets in Empire space, and you can make a great living in EVE without ever going to Null sec.
To all that bookmarking jump here jump there I am so leet because I can evade a warp bubble sometimes, get over yourselves. All you know is how to make a tedious game more tedious. The OP did what the majority of what you said and he still got blown to bits. The best way to travel in Nullsec is with the biggest blob. Always has been. Always will be.


I really enjoyed this thread - until this post.

Eve is like chess. Learning the basic moves and learning how to counter them is challenging and enjoyable. The variety of ways a player can be tackled in 0.0 is immense. The variety of tricks used to avoid being tackled is also immense. Calling tactics tedious because they take time, forethought, and planning, makes me think less of you as a human being.

The op asked specific advice and got specific answers - he lasted for longer on his 2nd run. He then encountered a new tactic for which he has come back and asked for more advice. This process is called learning. The more complex the problems an individual wants to learn about, the complex the trial and error period.

If you choose to stay dumb that is your decision. However you chose to intentionally cut down a person who is attempting to learn, and then cut down those who are of their own free will, and in their own time, are willing to help another player learn. For this you need to be called out as what you are; an individual of weak intellect and weak character.

so after you have ducked and dodged your way through the great bubble camp that is 0.0 sec, then what do you do? Chess has an endgame. You make those tough decisions to ultimately win.


Well speaking for myself, I make billions doing Angel missions in Curse.
That is good for you. The OP doesn't need to leave empire to have that kind of fun though. The Op was going to do PI in nullsec too. I doubt you do a lot of that as you make so many billions doing Angel missions. So what was your point again?