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Why nullsec sucks for anyone not in a giant corp/alliance - the perfect example

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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#81 - 2011-11-13 05:05:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Spymaster Alpha wrote:
Ok, so being my adventurous self I decided it was high time to get my ass out of highsec and learn about null. I figured a decent way to start with this would be to set up some ninja PI.

So, I get my crane, and fit it all nice and sexy cloaky like, and load up a bunch of command centers. I set a course for the Outer Ring (all NPC nullsec all the way), autopilot to the edge of highsec, and then start my trip through the deep dark.

I get 2 jumps in. I'm cloaked. I warp to 0 on the next gate. I somehow end up being pulled OFF the gate and into a bubble, with a bunch of litter that decloaks me. Locked and killed within 15 seconds.

So what did I do wrong? How is it even possible to avoid this? Manually warping to 0 in a cloaked ship, and there was absolutely NOTHING I could do to avoid this. This, obviously, is why anyone who doesn't have a massive corp to back them up doesn't like nullsec. It's impossible to go anywhere without getting shitkicked, even if you do everything right.

It seemed, from the little I saw, that nearly every gate had a bubble on it. So how does anyone get anywhere?



simple. you don't warp towards a celestial via the most blatantly obvious and predictable route, because if there is a camp, it will be pulling from that route.

bounce of other celestials, or set up bookmarks.

seriously, highseccers don't understand how nullsec works *at all*. the game is a whole lot deeper than it seems in babyspace. if you know what you're doing in nullsec, you are nearly impossible to catch unless *you* **** up.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#82 - 2011-11-13 05:43:01 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
seriously, highseccers don't understand how nullsec works *at all*. the game is a whole lot deeper than it seems in babyspace. if you know what you're doing in nullsec, you are nearly impossible to catch unless *you* **** up.


You can live in null sec for 50 years and be the oldest bone around, the smarter etc, once you jump the gate and the bubble is there you just suck it up, has everyone else. Twisted
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#83 - 2011-11-13 05:48:53 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
seriously, highseccers don't understand how nullsec works *at all*. the game is a whole lot deeper than it seems in babyspace. if you know what you're doing in nullsec, you are nearly impossible to catch unless *you* **** up.


You can live in null sec for 50 years and be the oldest bone around, the smarter etc, once you jump the gate and the bubble is there you just suck it up, has everyone else. Twisted






getting caught in a drag bubble is 100% avoidable in every case. directional scan, local, other celestials, bookmarks, etc. but yeah, everyone makes mistakes. they're just your fault, not the campers'.

also, jumping through a gate *into* a bubble isn't so bad either, assuming your ship is fit properly for nullsec travel. you'd lose a clumsy slow ship like a battleship or a BC, but flying around solo through hostile space in one is a mistake in itself.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#84 - 2011-11-13 09:20:31 UTC
Lord Mandelor wrote:
Spymaster Alpha wrote:
Ok, so being my adventurous self I decided it was high time to get my ass out of highsec and learn about null. I figured a decent way to start with this would be to set up some ninja PI.

So, I get my crane, and fit it all nice and sexy cloaky like, and load up a bunch of command centers. I set a course for the Outer Ring (all NPC nullsec all the way), autopilot to the edge of highsec, and then start my trip through the deep dark.

I get 2 jumps in. I'm cloaked. I warp to 0 on the next gate. I somehow end up being pulled OFF the gate and into a bubble, with a bunch of litter that decloaks me. Locked and killed within 15 seconds.

So what did I do wrong? How is it even possible to avoid this? Manually warping to 0 in a cloaked ship, and there was absolutely NOTHING I could do to avoid this. This, obviously, is why anyone who doesn't have a massive corp to back them up doesn't like nullsec. It's impossible to go anywhere without getting shitkicked, even if you do everything right.

It seemed, from the little I saw, that nearly every gate had a bubble on it. So how does anyone get anywhere?


Such is life in the Zone.


which is part of why its so empty there.

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#85 - 2011-11-13 09:44:11 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
MAYHAPS you should have MAYBE used POSSIBLY......................a Bustard. Let me introduce you to this Fantastic ship. : http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Bustard

T2 Transports already have a built-in +2 Warp, which means it's already invulnerable to ONE Warp Disruptor.

I fit 4 'Halcyon' Scramblers to my T2 Ships [Bustard, Occator, Mastodon, Impel] (I fly all 4 races of them).

Therefore it takes 4 Warp Scrams from a GANG to even BEGIN to capture me.


Learn to fly your ships.


K I



How many can I put on a Raven?

Sorry, couldn't help it.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jr Instructorcon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2011-11-13 09:55:50 UTC
If you find yourself in a gate camp after going through a gate, and you are in a covert ops cloaked ship, you can survive as long as you keep your cool and properly assess the situation. If they have a HIC/DIC, and the bubble is not up, expect a delayed bubble. If they have a fast ship there, expect a decloak attempt. To escape a decloak attempt, orient your camera toward a perpendicular line away from the decloaker (Try for a 90 degree angle). Double click in space to break gate cloak, hit your MWD and then immediately hit your cloak. Your MWD will cycle while you are cloaked, launching you away from your last known location, causing the decloak to fail. If the bubble goes up, don't worry, go the shortest route out of the bubble, and warp to a celestial. If the bubble doesn't go up, warp to a Celestial ASAP before the decloaker can try for a second attempt.


If you run into a properly setup cloaky trap, you will probably die. Welcome to nullsec. We lose ships a lot. Get a second account to scout. Join a corp and share intel on the local area and gate camps. Nullsec is a lot more "harsh" towards inexperienced pilots. Get a bunch of rifters that you can afford to lose. Treat every person in local as hostile and active. Treat every gate as if it had a drag bubble on it and a gate camp on the other side.

Going lone wolf in nullsec will be hard, because teamwork is encourage in such harsh conditions that we are used to. Intel channels, home defense fleets, jumpbridges, perimeter gate camps, all of these things require other people. If you want to live out here, be prepared to put more effort into it than you would in highsec. The reward will not be that great, as income is generally **** for the risk involved. But if you want to experience all that EVE has to offer, and to live in space driven entirely by players, this is the place to be.
Feilamya
#87 - 2011-11-13 10:01:35 UTC
Being in a giant corp/alliance is not a cure for incompetence.
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2011-11-13 10:28:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Theodoric Darkwind
Spymaster Alpha wrote:
There should be a wiki article on this sh!t.


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ship_Equipment:Deployable_Equipment:Warp_Disruption_Fields

this is the best description of how bubbles work I could find on a public wiki, it describes bubble mechanics pretty well, but not how to avoid them.

If you really want detailed instruction on bubble mechanics, nullsec survival and basic PvP in general I would suggest sigining up for an Agony Unleashed PvP class, takes a day and you usually even get to shoot at stuff.

Bookmarks are pretty much essential for travel in null, but if you dont have BMs for a particular system you can usually bounce off a planet and avoid most drag bubbles.

If your planning to take a blockade runner into null on a regular basis I would also learn the Cloak+MWD trick to escape bubble camps when jumping into a system.

It doesn't require being in a major alliance to get around null, plenty of small time pirates catch careless nullsec dwellers all the time.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#89 - 2011-11-13 10:41:52 UTC
To OP: Yeah they should really lose that whole gate bubble thing I mean if you put up a wall to null sec. you wont have a flood of people coming into it. And don't worry about PI. There is plenty o' planets in Empire space, and you can make a great living in EVE without ever going to Null sec.
To all that bookmarking jump here jump there I am so leet because I can evade a warp bubble sometimes, get over yourselves. All you know is how to make a tedious game more tedious. The OP did what the majority of what you said and he still got blown to bits. The best way to travel in Nullsec is with the biggest blob. Always has been. Always will be.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#90 - 2011-11-13 10:43:43 UTC
Demon View wrote:
An addition to the advice above: cap dumping. You might want to prepare the ground in a covops (cloak reactivation time: 5s) or a dual-prop interceptor with a cloak (for when you sense a trap and have to hide for a bit, not for the MWD+cloak thing.)

Spymaster Alpha wrote:
It seemed, from the little I saw, that nearly every gate had a bubble on it. So how does anyone get anywhere?


Player skill, tedium, bookmarks, knowing the area. I guess you thought, "I have all this SP, I should be ready for null now!", but that was never the barrier.



I would like this post 50 times if i could.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jr Instructorcon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2011-11-13 10:44:13 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
To OP: Yeah they should really lose that whole gate bubble thing I mean if you put up a wall to null sec. you wont have a flood of people coming into it. And don't worry about PI. There is plenty o' planets in Empire space, and you can make a great living in EVE without ever going to Null sec.
To all that bookmarking jump here jump there I am so leet because I can evade a warp bubble sometimes, get over yourselves. All you know is how to make a tedious game more tedious. The OP did what the majority of what you said and he still got blown to bits. The best way to travel in Nullsec is with the biggest blob. Always has been. Always will be.



Yes, because big blobs don't attract other blobs to kill them.

Are you stupid? The best way to travel through nullsec is carefully. Removing bubbles doesn't reduce tedium, it reduces the amount of interaction between players. Nullsec isn't highsec. We are the frontier of society. Bring your blanket and a gun.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#92 - 2011-11-13 10:55:33 UTC
Jr Instructorcon wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
To OP: Yeah they should really lose that whole gate bubble thing I mean if you put up a wall to null sec. you wont have a flood of people coming into it. And don't worry about PI. There is plenty o' planets in Empire space, and you can make a great living in EVE without ever going to Null sec.
To all that bookmarking jump here jump there I am so leet because I can evade a warp bubble sometimes, get over yourselves. All you know is how to make a tedious game more tedious. The OP did what the majority of what you said and he still got blown to bits. The best way to travel in Nullsec is with the biggest blob. Always has been. Always will be.



Yes, because big blobs don't attract other blobs to kill them.

Are you stupid? The best way to travel through nullsec is carefully. Removing bubbles doesn't reduce tedium, it reduces the amount of interaction between players. Nullsec isn't highsec. We are the frontier of society. Bring your blanket and a gun.


Nah it reduces tedium. By your logic so does warping all around the system to evade hostile interaction with the gate campers. I am sure that most corps don't go around looking for targets who are armed and ready to blow stuff up unless they are at war with that corp. I have been part of a nullsec corp it is in some ways a whole lot like high sec.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#93 - 2011-11-13 11:14:32 UTC
This use of gates in 0.0 is new to me. Wormholes are better.

But what the heck? I tried the very things suggested in this thread - the cap dumping thing is pretty cool.


I must say that while I think gates are crap mechanics and should go away, the advice given here is workable.

I am even having a good time at it - like the red dude who didn't like me coming between two of his bubbles from a direction he would have never expected. It was not even a SOV held system. Yeesh get a life people.

Some things to be mindful of:

- It would be advisable to get the fastest aligning ship you can afford.
- Train up the skills to maneuver fast. Those of us who started before the WTZ days know the importance of this.
- Unless you are in a throwaway scout/alt don't stop checking the map. You still have to get away from the gates you jump into, and an active camp is likely to have a boosted scrammajamma ship.
- If you are merely traveling, and hence light on weaponry since it's not like you are going to fight your way out of a gate camp, consider a salvager if you run across T2 wrecks in empty systems. I could have gotten around 60 mil in salvage tonight with practically no work.
- Most of the bubbles I saw tonight were very lightly manned yet the stats on my route have a very high "ships destroyed" and "pod destroyed" rate. The gankbears may be spread thin in some systems.
- The amount of warping around you will do with the prescribed methods is going to make you very hard to probe down - so fitting a cloak for the purpose of not being probed may be a waste. The Cloak-MWD trick is another matter.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#94 - 2011-11-13 11:27:24 UTC
Spymaster Alpha wrote:
Ok, so being my adventurous self I decided it was high time to get my ass out of highsec and learn about null. I figured a decent way to start with this would be to set up some ninja PI.

So, I get my crane, and fit it all nice and sexy cloaky like, and load up a bunch of command centers. I set a course for the Outer Ring (all NPC nullsec all the way), autopilot to the edge of highsec, and then start my trip through the deep dark.

I get 2 jumps in. I'm cloaked. I warp to 0 on the next gate. I somehow end up being pulled OFF the gate and into a bubble, with a bunch of litter that decloaks me. Locked and killed within 15 seconds.

So what did I do wrong? How is it even possible to avoid this? Manually warping to 0 in a cloaked ship, and there was absolutely NOTHING I could do to avoid this. This, obviously, is why anyone who doesn't have a massive corp to back them up doesn't like nullsec. It's impossible to go anywhere without getting shitkicked, even if you do everything right.

It seemed, from the little I saw, that nearly every gate had a bubble on it. So how does anyone get anywhere?

What he did wrong was warp directly from gate to gate. Pick really odd areas to bounce off first and youll miss most camps.
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#95 - 2011-11-13 11:27:44 UTC
doubled
Justin Credulent
Luv You Long Time
#96 - 2011-11-13 15:52:51 UTC
Jr Instructorcon wrote:
If you find yourself in a gate camp after going through a gate, and you are in a covert ops cloaked ship, you can survive as long as you keep your cool and properly assess the situation. If they have a HIC/DIC, and the bubble is not up, expect a delayed bubble. If they have a fast ship there, expect a decloak attempt. To escape a decloak attempt, orient your camera toward a perpendicular line away from the decloaker (Try for a 90 degree angle). Double click in space


Too late, already dead.

Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
FadeIN Fr0St
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2011-11-13 16:41:16 UTC
ThisIsntMyMain wrote:
and BTW - You cant do PI in Null Sec unless you are a member of the Sov holding alliance.



Face Palm*

Reading sure is hard, understanding what you read must be even harder?

"All hail Wang ... the little fella in Command. When 'trouble' starts to spread, I'm sure he will rise to the occasion."

Azahni Vah'nos (Best reply ever)
Adunh Slavy
#98 - 2011-11-13 16:50:18 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:

I don't think I even SEE a fix for this presently. (Get rid of gates?? :))

Edit: Actually I sat down had morning coffee after this.

Getting rid of gates would be awesome. Being able to warp from one system to another, instead of through a gate would really redefine the space, the fights, and bring an immensity to the game that's currently lacking. More scouts would be needed - meaning more small ships would need to accompany fleets - fighting would occur more often at celestials - which I think would also be cool. (The fleet is hiding at an asteroid belt is a star wars classic! ;)).



+1E100000000000000000000

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Angeliena
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
#99 - 2011-11-13 18:01:14 UTC
There is a nice article in EVEnews24 about this. see http://www.evenews24.com/2011/11/09/poetic-stanziel-not-dying-on-gates/
Harrigan VonStudly
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#100 - 2011-11-13 18:09:41 UTC
Wow. Look at those ideas offered by others in how to avoid this kind of thing. And the OP says there's NOTHING he could do to avoid this.

Who down wit' OP-P?