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Why nullsec sucks for anyone not in a giant corp/alliance - the perfect example

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Spymaster Alpha
EveTech Enterprises
#1 - 2011-11-07 20:46:51 UTC
Ok, so being my adventurous self I decided it was high time to get my ass out of highsec and learn about null. I figured a decent way to start with this would be to set up some ninja PI.

So, I get my crane, and fit it all nice and sexy cloaky like, and load up a bunch of command centers. I set a course for the Outer Ring (all NPC nullsec all the way), autopilot to the edge of highsec, and then start my trip through the deep dark.

I get 2 jumps in. I'm cloaked. I warp to 0 on the next gate. I somehow end up being pulled OFF the gate and into a bubble, with a bunch of litter that decloaks me. Locked and killed within 15 seconds.

So what did I do wrong? How is it even possible to avoid this? Manually warping to 0 in a cloaked ship, and there was absolutely NOTHING I could do to avoid this. This, obviously, is why anyone who doesn't have a massive corp to back them up doesn't like nullsec. It's impossible to go anywhere without getting shitkicked, even if you do everything right.

It seemed, from the little I saw, that nearly every gate had a bubble on it. So how does anyone get anywhere?
Lord Mandelor
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#2 - 2011-11-07 20:48:38 UTC
Spymaster Alpha wrote:
Ok, so being my adventurous self I decided it was high time to get my ass out of highsec and learn about null. I figured a decent way to start with this would be to set up some ninja PI.

So, I get my crane, and fit it all nice and sexy cloaky like, and load up a bunch of command centers. I set a course for the Outer Ring (all NPC nullsec all the way), autopilot to the edge of highsec, and then start my trip through the deep dark.

I get 2 jumps in. I'm cloaked. I warp to 0 on the next gate. I somehow end up being pulled OFF the gate and into a bubble, with a bunch of litter that decloaks me. Locked and killed within 15 seconds.

So what did I do wrong? How is it even possible to avoid this? Manually warping to 0 in a cloaked ship, and there was absolutely NOTHING I could do to avoid this. This, obviously, is why anyone who doesn't have a massive corp to back them up doesn't like nullsec. It's impossible to go anywhere without getting shitkicked, even if you do everything right.

It seemed, from the little I saw, that nearly every gate had a bubble on it. So how does anyone get anywhere?


Such is life in the Zone.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-11-07 20:48:43 UTC
Spymaster Alpha wrote:
Ok, so being my adventurous self I decided it was high time to get my ass out of highsec and learn about null. I figured a decent way to start with this would be to set up some ninja PI.

So, I get my crane, and fit it all nice and sexy cloaky like, and load up a bunch of command centers. I set a course for the Outer Ring (all NPC nullsec all the way), autopilot to the edge of highsec, and then start my trip through the deep dark.

I get 2 jumps in. I'm cloaked. I warp to 0 on the next gate. I somehow end up being pulled OFF the gate and into a bubble, with a bunch of litter that decloaks me. Locked and killed within 15 seconds.

So what did I do wrong? How is it even possible to avoid this? Manually warping to 0 in a cloaked ship, and there was absolutely NOTHING I could do to avoid this. This, obviously, is why anyone who doesn't have a massive corp to back them up doesn't like nullsec. It's impossible to go anywhere without getting shitkicked, even if you do everything right.

It seemed, from the little I saw, that nearly every gate had a bubble on it. So how does anyone get anywhere?


Get a 500k ISK frigate, a jump clone without implants. Run into a bubble and die. Repeatedly.

Then get 5 friends and try to get the campers.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#4 - 2011-11-07 20:49:29 UTC
it's called a sling bubble, and there easy to avoid once you know how.

first - they work by being along the line between the two gates - in front or behind.
the way to avoid them is to have a tactical point that gets you off that line - so say 300km below the gate.


warp to tactical, then warp to gate. viola! sling bubble avoided.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Jack bubu
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-11-07 20:49:35 UTC
there is alot you can do, using scouts is one example.

using ongrid bounce spots on gates is another.

Be smart and you will survive.
Though setting up PI in outer ring is not the best choice as it is a long way from empire.
Comy 1
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-11-07 20:51:22 UTC
Personally I make sure to bookmark areas I travel frequently. On grid safespots about 300km of a gate to not get stuck in a bubble on warp in.

Another thing you can do is to warp to other celestials within scan range of the out gate and warp in from different angles instead of directly from a gate, which is where most bubbles are aligned to.

Lastly if no other celestials are available, you can initiate warp and cancel it. This will burn some capacitor. Keep doing it untill you are pretty much out of cap and warp to the out gate. You will not reach all the way but keep warping a little bit at a time until you are in scan range of the out gate to see if any bubbles are there.
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#7 - 2011-11-07 20:51:39 UTC
Null Sec belongs to CCP alts, stay the hell out!

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Idicious Lightbane
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-11-07 20:51:40 UTC
Don't warp to 0 on a gate with others in system, warp to a nearby celestial first, scan the gate for bubbles/ships, then warp from the celestial to the gate. Whats better is to scout the pipe with say an inty and set up on and off grid bookmarks off all the gates to warp to.
Bubbles won't pull you in unless your warping in a direct line with them, if you warp from a different angle you won't be pulled in. (basicly the one you got pulled into was in a direct line between the gate you warped from and that gate and pulled you in)
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#9 - 2011-11-07 20:52:26 UTC
as above, or for your first trip try warping to a celestial first, make a BM mid point enroute, warp to the new BM then you can warp to the gate at an off angle from an existing celestial.

You can also burn off cap from your BM so as to not completely warp to the gate. Do this until your in DSCAN of the gate and look for bubbles, hics, DICS.

Might want to make a few BM's if there are probes on scan so you can bounce.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#10 - 2011-11-07 20:52:46 UTC
Nullsec rule #1:

Don't warp gate to gate, especially if there are bad guys in system.
ShadowMaster
#11 - 2011-11-07 21:00:10 UTC
When travelling alone and without a scout never warp straight between gates. Always warp to and from celestial objects and not moons either. This will get you off the straight line between gates that these people place bubbles along. Further I really recommend not using expensive stuff do fly into the unknown. Fly cheap stuff until you understand what is going on.
Jita Alt666
#12 - 2011-11-07 21:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Alt666
This is not an example of why big 0.0 sucks for people not in big Alliances/Corps (Which I think is true fyi). This is an example of there being different game mechanics used in 0.0 that are not used in empire.

To be more constructive:

1. Use random bounce points in every system: Enter system, warp to random planet then to exit gate.
2. Set up safe spots near gates I use 2000-3000k above or below gates - ensure these safes do not line up with any celestials. You can use these to bounce.
3. Use DSCAN frequently. I spam every 2-3 seconds when there is someone in local. Be aware that ships appearing in DSCAN can be pilot less in a pos. Knowing a gangs composition makes it easy to assess whether attempting to run them or not is feasible.
4. During Warps (especially during warps to/from random bounce spots) make book marks. Warp between these book marks and then make new bookmarks so as to make triangulation of your position very difficult.
5. Have dotlan open showing your route on a second monitor - the information is NOT immediately up to date but if you see a choke point on your pipe with 100+ kills in it you know the path will be littered with either pilots killing or wrecks.
6. Fly what you can afford to lose. I would recommend going out in a high agility covert ops.
Spymaster Alpha
EveTech Enterprises
#13 - 2011-11-07 21:00:28 UTC
Thanks for the tips. I'll run through the route with a jump clone in a frigate or something and make the proper bookmarks. Should be good then.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#14 - 2011-11-07 21:01:20 UTC
and to further the above point


if you're not in one of the aforementioned giant corps/alliances and don't have any friends in the system(s) you're traveling though....all the guys in system are bad guys

I'm right behind you
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#15 - 2011-11-07 21:02:23 UTC
Idicious Lightbane wrote:
Don't warp to 0 on a gate with others in system, warp to a nearby celestial first, scan the gate for bubbles/ships, then warp from the celestial to the gate. Whats better is to scout the pipe with say an inty and set up on and off grid bookmarks off all the gates to warp to.
Bubbles won't pull you in unless your warping in a direct line with them, if you warp from a different angle you won't be pulled in. (basicly the one you got pulled into was in a direct line between the gate you warped from and that gate and pulled you in)


^^ This.
Spymaster Alpha
EveTech Enterprises
#16 - 2011-11-07 21:04:27 UTC
There should be a wiki article on this sh!t.
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris
#17 - 2011-11-07 21:04:40 UTC
Spymaster Alpha wrote:
Ok, so being my adventurous self I decided it was high time to get my ass out of highsec and learn about null. I figured a decent way to start with this would be to set up some ninja PI.

So, I get my crane, and fit it all nice and sexy cloaky like, and load up a bunch of command centers. I set a course for the Outer Ring (all NPC nullsec all the way), autopilot to the edge of highsec, and then start my trip through the deep dark.

I get 2 jumps in. I'm cloaked. I warp to 0 on the next gate. I somehow end up being pulled OFF the gate and into a bubble, with a bunch of litter that decloaks me. Locked and killed within 15 seconds.

So what did I do wrong? How is it even possible to avoid this? Manually warping to 0 in a cloaked ship, and there was absolutely NOTHING I could do to avoid this. This, obviously, is why anyone who doesn't have a massive corp to back them up doesn't like nullsec. It's impossible to go anywhere without getting shitkicked, even if you do everything right.

It seemed, from the little I saw, that nearly every gate had a bubble on it. So how does anyone get anywhere?

there are some decent answers in this thread but perhaps at the root of all this is that 0.0 really does lend itself to team-work and planning. Going in alone, no matter what the ship, will often end badly. The answer is to go in with friends - if you had had a scout, this likely wouldn't have happened. If you had bookmarks, this likely wouldn't have happened, etc, etc.

Not the answer you wanted to hear, I'm sure, but it's true. 0.0 favours those with someone to watch their back.
Indeterminacy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-11-07 21:06:14 UTC
ninja pi to learn about nullsec? I don't even...
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-11-07 21:06:33 UTC
Spymaster Alpha wrote:
Ok, so being my adventurous self I decided it was high time to get my ass out of highsec and learn about null. I figured a decent way to start with this would be to set up some ninja PI.

So, I get my crane, and fit it all nice and sexy cloaky like, and load up a bunch of command centers. I set a course for the Outer Ring (all NPC nullsec all the way), autopilot to the edge of highsec, and then start my trip through the deep dark.

I get 2 jumps in. I'm cloaked. I warp to 0 on the next gate. I somehow end up being pulled OFF the gate and into a bubble, with a bunch of litter that decloaks me. Locked and killed within 15 seconds.

So what did I do wrong? How is it even possible to avoid this? Manually warping to 0 in a cloaked ship, and there was absolutely NOTHING I could do to avoid this. This, obviously, is why anyone who doesn't have a massive corp to back them up doesn't like nullsec. It's impossible to go anywhere without getting shitkicked, even if you do everything right.

It seemed, from the little I saw, that nearly every gate had a bubble on it. So how does anyone get anywhere?


first of all u NEVER warp directly from gate to gate in 0.0.... always use bounce points.... warp to a celestial and make a safe spot along the way.... warp back to your newly created safe spot. then warp from the safe spot to the next gate. most of the time the catch bubbles wont work and u get through safely.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Demon View
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-11-07 21:08:27 UTC
An addition to the advice above: cap dumping. You might want to prepare the ground in a covops (cloak reactivation time: 5s) or a dual-prop interceptor with a cloak (for when you sense a trap and have to hide for a bit, not for the MWD+cloak thing.)

Spymaster Alpha wrote:
It seemed, from the little I saw, that nearly every gate had a bubble on it. So how does anyone get anywhere?


Player skill, tedium, bookmarks, knowing the area. I guess you thought, "I have all this SP, I should be ready for null now!", but that was never the barrier.
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