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Can anyone explain the tactics/fleets used by the various nullsec alliances?
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#21 - 2014-01-05 03:08:00 UTC
Perchance the OP is asking about these fleet labels?

Like "Omega Fleet", etc?

I remember names for certain fittings too, though vaguely.

But I would also expect nullsec to come up with more elaborate and deeper slang, like "slapyoursister fit" or vague references along the Dennis Miller style.

But where in world did the term "slowcat" actually come from? That's something I would like to know.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#22 - 2014-01-05 03:15:37 UTC
Rainbow Dash wrote:
Don't worry, CFC deployed 900 caps and supers, which means they'll headshot N3/PL the next time N3/PL dare form caps.

The war is basically over, 900 caps/supers and 1k subcaps can kill basically anything N3/PL have

Don't be idiotic, progodlegend has far more powerful forces at his side

he will defeat the blobbers for sure, then they'll help you defend fountain

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#23 - 2014-01-05 03:29:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Perchance the OP is asking about these fleet labels?

Like "Omega Fleet", etc?

I remember names for certain fittings too, though vaguely.

But I would also expect nullsec to come up with more elaborate and deeper slang, like "slapyoursister fit" or vague references along the Dennis Miller style.

But where in world did the term "slowcat" actually come from? That's something I would like to know.


PL uses "cat" designations for doctrine fits. ie "foxcats" are navy apocs, "slowcats" are their archons.

Wouldn't be suprised if it originates from the Grumman Hellcat WW2 fighter,, but in the youtube era, who knows, a cat could have inspired the first name too.

edit: yes, I think they started with plain apocs called hellcats.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#24 - 2014-01-05 03:32:08 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Perchance the OP is asking about these fleet labels?

Like "Omega Fleet", etc?

I remember names for certain fittings too, though vaguely.

But I would also expect nullsec to come up with more elaborate and deeper slang, like "slapyoursister fit" or vague references along the Dennis Miller style.

But where in world did the term "slowcat" actually come from? That's something I would like to know.


PL uses "cat" designations for doctrine fits. ie "foxcats" are navy apocs, "slowcats" are their archons.

Wouldn't be suprised if it originates from the Grumman Hellcat WW2 fighter,, but in the youtube era, who knows, a cat could have inspired the first name too.

edit: yes, I think they started with plain apocs called hellcats.

apocs or abaddons, I can't recall, but then yeah... Xcat became the naming convention

slowcat is slow, you know

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-01-05 03:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
I thought Hellcats were their Abaddon doctrine. Which RAZOR later adopted for a few months until tactics once again evolved and they became ineffective.

We use less unified names for our fleets. The super long range doctrine we have now is called the "waterboarding" doctrine (since it's basically meant to be torturous to N3PL's wrecking ball more than actually kill anything). The killing part is meant to be done by Omega Fleet (because it's the logical complement and iteration of the Alpha Fleet of the past). Baltec fleet is our rail Megathron doctrine (named after baltec1 of course). The newbie-friendly SD celestis doctrine is "Fuckyou Fleet". The Tempest Fleet Issue fleet that we never actually used was called "Tech Fleet". Our structure bashing stealth bombers are "siege fleet". Others don't really have all that interesting names - Ferox fleet (I think it should be called Irony Fleet), Prophecy fleet, brawling Domi fleet...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#26 - 2014-01-05 03:33:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Around the time we bankrupted ourself paying black legion a gazillion isk for fountain, when test was rolling in isk and not running out anytime soon, they informed us that foxcats were not just navy apocs, and that their fleets of normal apocs + a few navy ones were also foxcats

It was not because people dying in the faction battleships were too expensive for them or anything, it was totally according to plan

They also had us right where they wanted us

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-01-05 03:40:11 UTC
Grumman made the WWII era Wildcat and Hellcat followed by the Tigercat and Bearcat and more recently the F14 Tomcat.

Though they are more topical of late because of the Northrop Grumman habit of litigating anyone that uses any of the above planes in a model kit, child's toy or PC game for exorbinant licence fees.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-01-05 03:45:06 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
Even without drone assist slowcats are pretty much the only thing that has a chance of countering the BoBlob that the CFC has become. We can't field more people, so we have to field better people.

Better people fly massively tanked ships that require little input other than "launch drone, assist".
The assist part is not at all because that gives you perfect alpha and ignores your ship's targeting drawbacks, it's so you can post on GD about how terrible skilless blobbers we are.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-01-05 03:59:47 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Even without drone assist slowcats are pretty much the only thing that has a chance of countering the BoBlob that the CFC has become. We can't field more people, so we have to field better people.

Better people fly massively tanked ships that require little input other than "launch drone, assist".
The assist part is not at all because that gives you perfect alpha and ignores your ship's targeting drawbacks, it's so you can post on GD about how terrible skilless blobbers we are.



It probably also works as a force multiplier as it is clearly a lot easier to multibox a bunch of drone assist ships with your alts than something that requires a bit more attention.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#30 - 2014-01-05 04:02:38 UTC
Ah interesting. Thanks for the answers y'all.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#31 - 2014-01-05 04:03:05 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Even without drone assist slowcats are pretty much the only thing that has a chance of countering the BoBlob that the CFC has become. We can't field more people, so we have to field better people.

Better people fly massively tanked ships that require little input other than "launch drone, assist".
The assist part is not at all because that gives you perfect alpha and ignores your ship's targeting drawbacks, it's so you can post on GD about how terrible skilless blobbers we are.

It probably also works as a force multiplier as it is clearly a lot easier to multibox a bunch of drone assist ships with your alts than something that requires a bit more attention.

Yeah. Real elite pvp involves using many ships at the same time.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2014-01-05 04:57:00 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Silvetica Dian wrote:
as a side note not every thread needs to be metagamed into the goon/n3 war needs. the guy asked a simple question and for once it wasn't one of the normal 5 topics.

he was asking about a wrecking ball fleet

obviously there must be some fishing for goon tears


even if that was his subtext ( and i feel that is a reach) it doesn't mean you have to descend into the stupid meta debate here too.
i was actually in 401k when they fell out with BL and BL started taking our moons. we lost because BL were willing to escalate as far as needed and 401k weren't. (if we had we might still have lost and even most likely would have). I say this because i feel your pain at fighting people willing to risk more than is wise.
tbh i am happy 401k lost as the leadership didn't lead in a direction the active corps wanted to follow and we are all better off now in places that provide what we want. nonetheless this topic would be better spent on discussing what OP overtly asked for rather than 2nd guessing. the blob vs escalation debate is tired.
In keeping with that i would like to say i miss the herocat doctrine from 401k.
herocats are tempests with 2 heavy neuts.
they are for killing supers.
there is a formula for how many herocats you need to cap out a super before it hits armour and wants to rep. i have no idea what this formula is.......RIP lonely ryan. i wasn't in herocat that day (coz i couldn't fly one). my bellicose died well that day (although pointlessly as not one iota of gain was given from my stupid bellicose). the other reason i mention herocats in this post is because the joint 401k.BL op to kill that titan was in fact entirely BL based. the new staging system to bridge, the fake cyno to draw out the subcaps and the bubble to trap a titan returning home in perceived safety was all BL. 401k only offered numbers to make it work and i understand why ELO got annoyed at the junior partner trying to be an equal partner.
In another example for OP CFC tried to headshot 401k on numerous occasions and my favourite fight was razor loki's vs 401k nagas. they never got in range and the few survivors fire saled their ships in the npc station. over 1000 cfc invaded that night vs 400 defenders and they lost badly, no one in was scared of cfc numbers but people were nervous of darkspawn when they deployed to our system and BL destroyed us in a few days.
my point is stop f-ing whining about tactics you dislike, you could replicate them if you wanted with twice the number and could escalate with more supers than your foes.. just because you are scared too doesn't make the tactics you face OP. pick a new doctrine (that you are willing to risk) and fight. or surrender idc.
death to all coalitions.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2014-01-05 05:16:32 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Perchance the OP is asking about these fleet labels?

Like "Omega Fleet", etc?

I remember names for certain fittings too, though vaguely.

But I would also expect nullsec to come up with more elaborate and deeper slang, like "slapyoursister fit" or vague references along the Dennis Miller style.

But where in world did the term "slowcat" actually come from? That's something I would like to know.


PL uses "cat" designations for doctrine fits. ie "foxcats" are navy apocs, "slowcats" are their archons.

Wouldn't be suprised if it originates from the Grumman Hellcat WW2 fighter,, but in the youtube era, who knows, a cat could have inspired the first name too.

edit: yes, I think they started with plain apocs called hellcats.


It was Abbadons, the original Hellcat.

The name, comes from a short lived TV show on the WB called, Hellcats, about a squad of cheerleaders:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1596356/

Trust me, as much as you think I'm trolling about this, I'm not, but wish I was.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2014-01-05 05:19:15 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

The assist part is not at all because that gives you perfect alpha


Also you'll see this line frequently, its a lie, anybody who uses sentries in large fights knows this to be a lie that James and his buddies wont give up, unless you consider half your drones shooting the other half your drones 'perfect alpha'.

However you'll never hear a goon talk about all the draw backs of sentry drones because that doesn't fit their narrative.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#35 - 2014-01-05 05:22:19 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


It was Abbadons, the original Hellcat.

The name, comes from a short lived TV show on the WB called, Hellcats, about a squad of cheerleaders:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1596356/

Trust me, as much as you think I'm trolling about this, I'm not, but wish I was.


Thats actually better than naming them after a fighter :)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2014-01-05 05:55:10 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Grath Telkin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

The assist part is not at all because that gives you perfect alpha


Also you'll see this line frequently, its a lie, anybody who uses sentries in large fights knows this to be a lie that James and his buddies wont give up, unless you consider half your drones shooting the other half your drones 'perfect alpha'.

Really now? In all of my experience with it, every drone shot simultaneously or near-enough to make it still superior to manual targeting.

Grath Telkin wrote:
However you'll never hear a goon talk about all the draw backs of sentry drones because that doesn't fit their narrative.

Yeah, sentry drones are so vulnerable. That's definitely a drawback. Except you can just launch more so not really.
Sentry drones are stationary. That's a drawback because... well why is it a drawback?
Sentry drones are limited by their control range. Well, I suppose that would be an issue if your wrecking ball carriers didn't have 177 km control range at EWDI 4.
Drone anchor can be jammed, sensor d- oh wait they can't because you're using supers for that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2014-01-05 05:58:48 UTC
You'll definitely hear Grath talk all about the drawbacks of sentries and significantly inflating their impact because that fits his narrative.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#38 - 2014-01-05 06:05:29 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Perchance the OP is asking about these fleet labels?

Like "Omega Fleet", etc?

I remember names for certain fittings too, though vaguely.

But I would also expect nullsec to come up with more elaborate and deeper slang, like "slapyoursister fit" or vague references along the Dennis Miller style.

But where in world did the term "slowcat" actually come from? That's something I would like to know.


PL uses "cat" designations for doctrine fits. ie "foxcats" are navy apocs, "slowcats" are their archons.

Wouldn't be suprised if it originates from the Grumman Hellcat WW2 fighter,, but in the youtube era, who knows, a cat could have inspired the first name too.

edit: yes, I think they started with plain apocs called hellcats.


It was Abbadons, the original Hellcat.

The name, comes from a short lived TV show on the WB called, Hellcats, about a squad of cheerleaders:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1596356/

Trust me, as much as you think I'm trolling about this, I'm not, but wish I was.



And this is what "player-created content" is really all about. Big smile

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#39 - 2014-01-05 06:17:31 UTC
I would have thought your parents had this talk with you already..but II guess I can do it.


You see, when one large null alliance loves another large null alliance, one alliance puts his cyno into the others system. After some friction, lots of ships appear. After 90 minutes or so, a node crash is born!


Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#40 - 2014-01-05 06:42:55 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You'll definitely hear Grath talk all about the drawbacks of sentries and significantly inflating their impact because that fits his narrative.

Oh my, it's almost as if they need to defend the thing they rely on a ton.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
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