These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: CSM8 - 1st Summit Minutes Published

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#121 - 2014-01-04 14:28:57 UTC
Took you long enough to censor out the good bits!

...
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#122 - 2014-01-04 15:11:14 UTC
Haplo Nex wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
I think of it as "if you want my money, you must earn it". That may be a revolutionary concept in your peculiar world, but that's not my fault.

And yet, you're still here.


I guess this makes me a very engaged player, doesn't it? Lol


Do tell us some more about how you'll complain and moan and whine, but won't expend 1% of that time or effort on actually trying to do anything useful, and how it's somebody else's fault that you're not getting what you want because they should magically know because they're psychic or something.

I got Bad News for you, buttercup: If you want to get some **** shovelled, you're going to have to roll your sleeves up and get your hands dirty. Standing around and wrinkling your nose at the smell means that you've done nothing but suck farts.




Generally everyone can agree the PVE content of eve is lacking and years out of date, not even trying to fix these problems would be a mistake there are tons of threads on the forums of potential improvements that could be looked at.

The CSM is not the only forum for feedback it's not even the best platform to gauge customer approval and discuss potential change.


Everyone does agree. CCP certainly agree, even if the CSM didn't, which we do.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Josef Djugashvilis
#123 - 2014-01-04 15:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
The problem with and for the CSM, is that most of what they talk about seems to be NDA.

This is not a complaint, but simply recognizing that that is how it is.

Even the stuff which can be disclosed has, on this occasion, taken so long to come out, it is mostly old, dead news.

I really do appreciate that the good folk on the CSM work hard on behalf of all the player base, at least I presume they do, as we do not really know which of the folk on the CSM really get stuck in and which are just there for the ego boosting ride.

Perhaps we should be told who got actively involved and who has had votes wasted on them?

So, a CSM elected by a relatively few votes, by a relatively complex voting system, which cannot say a lot (NDA) is it any wonder that many players cannot see the relevance of the whole kit and caboodle?

I voted for Malcanis, dear god, does that mean I should be banned from voting for the next CSM?

This is not a signature.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#124 - 2014-01-04 16:03:47 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
On the player retention thing, I will point out that measuring "engagement" by measuring wether a player reached or don't an arbitrary milestone ingame is not exactly failproof.

How engaged is someone who only runs missions, but has run in excess of 1,500 missions over 5 years?

How engaged is someone who only mines rocks, but has done it for years upon years?

Is it engagement enough to write in excess of 400 posts at the forums each month? Spend like 20 hours a week writing and reading about EVE?

Of all the silly things CCP ever did to me, calling me "not engaged" because I never went to null or reached some other random milestone ingame may be of the silliest.

If I was not engaged, Dr Whatsyourname, I would not have given in excess of 1,000 euros to your company.

And now it turns I am not even deemed worthy of keeping as a customer because "I am not engaged enough" and my kind leaves too often. Roll

That's pathetic.

I have a suggestion. If most people will not cross the social wall, or will not enter the sandbox nor miss it... have a revolutionary idea, free of charge: deliver them exactly what they want with a EVE twist rather than shake your head and say "too bad, they weren't engaged enough" as they leave.


How about calling you "not engaged" because you've repeatedly stated in the plainest terms that you're not interested in what EVE has to offer and you're only here until the day Star Citizen launches?


No need to get personal like that Malcanis. Whilst I am thinking of it where the hell were you in the entire 72 page document? You look like a waste of a vote to me. I mean it does say CSM on your profile doesn't it.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#125 - 2014-01-04 16:31:04 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
On the player retention thing, I will point out that measuring "engagement" by measuring wether a player reached or don't an arbitrary milestone ingame is not exactly failproof.

How engaged is someone who only runs missions, but has run in excess of 1,500 missions over 5 years?

How engaged is someone who only mines rocks, but has done it for years upon years?

Is it engagement enough to write in excess of 400 posts at the forums each month? Spend like 20 hours a week writing and reading about EVE?

Of all the silly things CCP ever did to me, calling me "not engaged" because I never went to null or reached some other random milestone ingame may be of the silliest.

If I was not engaged, Dr Whatsyourname, I would not have given in excess of 1,000 euros to your company.

And now it turns I am not even deemed worthy of keeping as a customer because "I am not engaged enough" and my kind leaves too often. Roll

That's pathetic.

I have a suggestion. If most people will not cross the social wall, or will not enter the sandbox nor miss it... have a revolutionary idea, free of charge: deliver them exactly what they want with a EVE twist rather than shake your head and say "too bad, they weren't engaged enough" as they leave.


How about calling you "not engaged" because you've repeatedly stated in the plainest terms that you're not interested in what EVE has to offer and you're only here until the day Star Citizen launches?


No need to get personal like that Malcanis. Whilst I am thinking of it where the hell were you in the entire 72 page document? You look like a waste of a vote to me. I mean it does say CSM on your profile doesn't it.


The summit is seven people out of the fourteen, Malcanis didn't attend this time and couldn't remote in.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#126 - 2014-01-04 17:25:07 UTC
Moretic wrote:
Why all this hate on PVE ?? leave it alone.... I dont care about pvp, never have and never will...

Its a shame that for us pve'ers the game gets worse and worse for every expansion due to 5 year old pvp'ers


That;s because unless you try everything like incursions, low sec life, fw, null sec and pvp you are clearly not engaged in eve, at least not according to CCP Seagull lol! Twisted

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#127 - 2014-01-04 17:42:05 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Merida DunBrogh wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Merida DunBrogh wrote:
Just finished reading 80% of the minutes(Skipped some in the end) there are a few things I noticed:
1. I am glad I voted for Trebor(Don't leave D:)
2. Malcanis has the CSM tag, yet wasn't mentioned once in the minutes, why?
3. The suggested format in "Language Support and the CSM" is really confusing and cluttered to me, and I prefer the current way where it feels more like a good book I am reading than some boring history book.

Can't wait to see what the future brings, and great performance in the minutes by Trebor Daehdoow and Ripard Teg, and to a lesser extent mynnna, Mike Azariah and Ali Aras.

Good wishes to CCP Sunset and the baby! Lovely construction there Trebor!


Malcanis wasn't present at this summit and was unable to attend remotely, thus the lack of mention.


Then how are we to know if we should vote for him? D: (Okay fine, he is active on the forum as halftroll...)
Thanks for explaining though :)


Oh, that's an easy one: you can't. I won't be running for CSM9.

Your question would have been better phrased "Then how are we to know if we should have voted for him."


best news ever. Those who did vote for you must now regret it, it's not like you turned up to the CSM is it?

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#128 - 2014-01-04 18:05:25 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Merida DunBrogh wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Merida DunBrogh wrote:
Just finished reading 80% of the minutes(Skipped some in the end) there are a few things I noticed:
1. I am glad I voted for Trebor(Don't leave D:)
2. Malcanis has the CSM tag, yet wasn't mentioned once in the minutes, why?
3. The suggested format in "Language Support and the CSM" is really confusing and cluttered to me, and I prefer the current way where it feels more like a good book I am reading than some boring history book.

Can't wait to see what the future brings, and great performance in the minutes by Trebor Daehdoow and Ripard Teg, and to a lesser extent mynnna, Mike Azariah and Ali Aras.

Good wishes to CCP Sunset and the baby! Lovely construction there Trebor!


Malcanis wasn't present at this summit and was unable to attend remotely, thus the lack of mention.


Then how are we to know if we should vote for him? D: (Okay fine, he is active on the forum as halftroll...)
Thanks for explaining though :)


Oh, that's an easy one: you can't. I won't be running for CSM9.

Your question would have been better phrased "Then how are we to know if we should have voted for him."


best news ever. Those who did vote for you must now regret it, it's not like you turned up to the CSM is it?


You're going to insist on continuing to be illiterate, aren't you.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#129 - 2014-01-04 18:27:02 UTC
mynnna wrote:
You're going to insist on continuing to be illiterate, aren't you.


Just curious, there at the CSM, how much time do you spend dealing with Malcanis' inflammatory attitude rather than being productive? Does he troll you much too or is that a privilege he saves for commoners?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#130 - 2014-01-04 18:29:38 UTC
all I'm saying is that people voted for him and he didn't turn up, his electors must regret that now. Yes I know real life gets in the way sometimes but I would be more sympathetic if Malcanis demonstrated that he was worthy of the CSM position by not being such a troll practically every time he posts.

On the plus side though Mynnna I thought your CSM input was pretty good, as was Ripard Tegs.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
SKINE DMZ
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2014-01-04 19:04:31 UTC
I thought the minutes were pretty good and a decent read, thanks Dolan for your time in writing these extensive minutes.

I also thought everyones input was fairly good and in general satisfied with the representation, thanks CSM.

One thing I'd like to note is, although it is pretty much a rumour: "Ripard Teg noted that Bettik once stated that "people should not live in WH space""

I don't think you should tell us what we should or shouldn't do in a sandbox, if anything Wormhole space is probably the most fun as well as scariest and most immersive place to live in Eve, purely my opinion of course.

One thing I don't understand is how Malcanis has an opinion on just about anything, with the general I know it better attitude, but from the regular player point of view, I don't think he has done anything worth mentioning at all and you are definitely not worthy of the CSM tag.

I disagree
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#132 - 2014-01-04 20:47:06 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
mynnna wrote:
You're going to insist on continuing to be illiterate, aren't you.


Just curious, there at the CSM, how much time do you spend dealing with Malcanis' inflammatory attitude rather than being productive? Does he troll you much too or is that a privilege he saves for commoners?

Not commoners. Idiots.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#133 - 2014-01-04 21:09:53 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
mynnna wrote:
You're going to insist on continuing to be illiterate, aren't you.


Just curious, there at the CSM, how much time do you spend dealing with Malcanis' inflammatory attitude rather than being productive? Does he troll you much too or is that a privilege he saves for commoners?

Not commoners. Idiots.


...and here comes Me-Too.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#134 - 2014-01-04 21:36:50 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
all I'm saying is that people voted for him and he didn't turn up, his electors must regret that now. Yes I know real life gets in the way sometimes but I would be more sympathetic if Malcanis demonstrated that he was worthy of the CSM position by not being such a troll practically every time he posts.


I'll be the first to concede that I'd hoped to give the players who voted for me better value. But there's more to CSMing than minutes or even summits. I'd like to think that those who voted for me weren't the ones who got the worst value either.

As for "trolling" well yes, sometimes I do. If it makes you happy, I do it a lot in real life too. Don't try and pretend it's "every" post though.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#135 - 2014-01-04 21:38:58 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
mynnna wrote:
You're going to insist on continuing to be illiterate, aren't you.


Just curious, there at the CSM, how much time do you spend dealing with Malcanis' inflammatory attitude rather than being productive? Does he troll you much too or is that a privilege he saves for commoners?

Not commoners. Idiots.


...and here comes Me-Too.


James hasn't hesitated or held back on criticising me when he thought I was in the wrong.

I value his feedback because I respect his integrity, even if I might disagree or merely not fully align with him on some specific issues.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman
the holtzman experience
CAStabouts
#136 - 2014-01-05 08:59:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman
"Progodlegend asked via text if they could get a feature to turn the [sensor] overlay off entirely, a question that was roundly ignored by all."

So, inconvenient questions are simply ignored?
Quality work, CSM, qua-li-ty work.

what in the ****
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#137 - 2014-01-05 10:32:07 UTC
Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman wrote:
"Progodlegend asked via text if they could get a feature to turn the [sensor] overlay off entirely, a question that was roundly ignored by all."

So, inconvenient questions are simply ignored?
Quality work, CSM, qua-li-ty work.

what in the ****

Specifically stating in the minutes that it was roundly ignored is in itself a pretty clear response.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2014-01-05 10:33:48 UTC
The other representatives probably couldn't quite understand the concept of him actually having fielded a decent question.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#139 - 2014-01-05 13:59:07 UTC
On the experimental section (Language support):

I've found it quite difficult to follow, specially because of the way the speakers are introduced with their name but then their words are refered to in third person. That is confusing, as probably I'm too used to see how names are used to introduce literal or semi-literal quotes in first person, not third person digests of what the speaker said. What?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#140 - 2014-01-05 17:30:52 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
all I'm saying is that people voted for him and he didn't turn up, his electors must regret that now. Yes I know real life gets in the way sometimes but I would be more sympathetic if Malcanis demonstrated that he was worthy of the CSM position by not being such a troll practically every time he posts.

On the plus side though Mynnna I thought your CSM input was pretty good, as was Ripard Tegs.


Remote attendance is not a requirement in any way. None of us are disappointed that he didn't remote in.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
mynnna wrote:
You're going to insist on continuing to be illiterate, aren't you.


Just curious, there at the CSM, how much time do you spend dealing with Malcanis' inflammatory attitude rather than being productive? Does he troll you much too or is that a privilege he saves for commoners?


Malcanis does not suffer fools gladly, and fortunately, if there are fools on the CSM, they practice the virtue of fools.

SKINE DMZ wrote:
One thing I'd like to note is, although it is pretty much a rumour: "Ripard Teg noted that Bettik once stated that "people should not live in WH space""

I don't think you should tell us what we should or shouldn't do in a sandbox, if anything Wormhole space is probably the most fun as well as scariest and most immersive place to live in Eve, purely my opinion of course.

This stems back to something that came out in one of the last Fanfest panels, actually. When they were designing wormholes, they were trying to decide whether to leave the ability for POS in or not, since they didn't actually intend them for long term habitation. They opted to leave the ability open, however, figuring no one would really want to live in them long term anyway.

Oops.

Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman wrote:
"Progodlegend asked via text if they could get a feature to turn the [sensor] overlay off entirely, a question that was roundly ignored by all."

So, inconvenient questions are simply ignored?
Quality work, CSM, qua-li-ty work.

what in the ****


A lot of the questions the remote folks sent in via text were ignored or more often missed, actually. Tech problems meant they couldn't speak, and more often than not the text chat window was hidden under other things.

That said, earlier in that session and other sessions, the type of people who want to turn every new thing off had come up, and no one is overly fond of them. Also you already can hide sigs on the overlay, so Question

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal