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Why not ?
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Anatoly Vsevolod
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-01-02 09:12:23 UTC
Why we don't have a module for missiles that increases their range in this game. Turret users have some, so why not for missiles users too . Both missiles and guns have rigs that increases the range of the weapons , but only turret users have modules for range increase. I think it is time for a change !
So go ahead and vomit ! Do you agree or do not agree ?
To mare
Advanced Technology
#2 - 2014-01-02 12:51:29 UTC
yes as long they introduce a module to reduce missile range.
or just keep the thing the way it is missile have plenty of range already (except torps) and its good for the game to keep some differences between weapon systems
Janna Windforce
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-01-02 13:02:39 UTC
If you want range, take from wide variety of range bonused hulls.
Missiles lack any mods par dmg/rof (BCS) and to certain extent TP/Web (but these help guns as well). For guns you have stabs/TEs/TC+scripts and wide roster of ammo.
Rather than range mod, I'd welcome mod helping dmg application.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#4 - 2014-01-02 14:01:01 UTC
There was a, relatively recent, threadnaught on the subject... or rather on the related subject of applying tracking disruption effects to missiles.

The plan appears to have been shelved for the moment, including the missile tracking computers (be they standard tracking computers with missile effects added or a new module) but they sounded quite well advanced.

So be careful what you wish for... HAMs applying damage to inties sounds cool but having your cruise missile range drop to 5km could lead to considerable rage.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-01-02 14:24:07 UTC
Janna Windforce wrote:
If you want range, take from wide variety of range bonused hulls.
Missiles lack any mods par dmg/rof (BCS) and to certain extent TP/Web (but these help guns as well). For guns you have stabs/TEs/TC+scripts and wide roster of ammo.
Rather than range mod, I'd welcome mod helping dmg application.

You mean something that increases the signature of your target or slows it down? I think we have those.
Anatoly Vsevolod
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-01-02 23:09:56 UTC
To mare wrote:
yes as long they introduce a module to reduce missile range.
or just keep the thing the way it is missile have plenty of range already (except torps) and its good for the game to keep some differences between weapon systems


So you are saying that missiles have plenty of range already , right ?
Ok , let's take 4 different hulls that don't have any bonuses that might affect range of missiles / turrets and see what we get (note: no modules that affect range were fitted,all skills to lvl 5 ), with long range weapons using t2 long range ammo:

1. Drake , Heavy Missile Launcher II , Scourge Fury Heavy Missiles : 47.2 km ;
2. Brutix, 250mm Railgun II, Spike M : 65 + 15 km ;
3. Harbinger, Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M : 54 + 10 km ;
4. Hurricane, 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M : 54 + 22 km .

As you can see the range of the Drake is below the optimal of the other 3 hulls taken into consideration. Not to mention that when firing missiles, you would like your target to be at a distance smaller than 47.2 km for a better damage application (somewhere around 40 km), while the other hulls will apply 100% damage in optimal (for simplicity i'm talking about a stationary target).

The fact that in the game there are hulls with bonuses that affect missile and turret range is another can of worms , i just took 4 examples that didn't.
Caldari shine when it comes to range of missiles, or at least that's how it's supposed to be...
daisy dook
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-01-02 23:28:19 UTC
Are we playing spot the odd ammo type out?

Is it:
1. High damage (reduced flight time)
2. Long Range
3. Long Range or
4.Long Range
Paranoid Loyd
#8 - 2014-01-03 00:04:41 UTC
Anyone who understands how damage application works in this game understands that range modules for missiles would make them OP.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Anatoly Vsevolod
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-01-03 00:05:53 UTC
daisy dook wrote:
Are we playing spot the odd ammo type out?

Is it:
1. High damage (reduced flight time)
2. Long Range
3. Long Range or
4.Long Range


Yeah I see your point, leave everything the way it is... all is good. Or just simply return to 2003 game mechanics... Wouldn't that be great ?

Skimmer...
Anatoly Vsevolod
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-01-03 00:10:13 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Anyone who understands how damage application works in this game understands that range modules for missiles would make them OP.


On the other hand, anyone who understands how damage application for drones work in this game , understands that assign drones to FC would make them OP. Right ?
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-01-03 00:13:03 UTC
The only missiles that have range issues are heavy missiles and torpedoes and that's for PVE. Most of the time PVP is within the 24km distrupter range so it's not an issue. It's when you're trying to do a level 4 mission the 47km range makes HM's worthless. Of course you can use a Tengu and get 85km range with HM's
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-01-03 00:15:49 UTC
Anatoly Vsevolod wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Anyone who understands how damage application works in this game understands that range modules for missiles would make them OP.


On the other hand, anyone who understands how damage application for drones work in this game , understands that assign drones to FC would make them OP. Right ?


Aren't we getting off the missile range topic just a little bit?
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-01-03 00:19:31 UTC
daisy dook wrote:
Are we playing spot the odd ammo type out?

Is it:
1. High damage (reduced flight time)
2. Long Range
3. Long Range or
4.Long Range


I have to agree. You can't compare long range low DPS ammo with high damage short range ammo. If you're going to do that you at least need to put the DPS numbers next to it.
Anatoly Vsevolod
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-01-03 00:33:02 UTC
IIshira wrote:
daisy dook wrote:
Are we playing spot the odd ammo type out?

Is it:
1. High damage (reduced flight time)
2. Long Range
3. Long Range or
4.Long Range


I have to agree. You can't compare long range low DPS ammo with high damage short range ammo. If you're going to do that you at least need to put the DPS numbers next to it.


This is not a discussion about DPS . It's about the possibility and consequences of a module to increase range of missiles.
And since when Fury variants for missiles are short range ammo ? So according to you, Rage variants are long range right ? Big smile
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2014-01-03 01:19:37 UTC
Yes but you are setting up a false argument. By using the long range ammo on your turrets but short range on your missile examples you are over reagerating to (try to) make your point. This throws out most any credibility for your position in said discussion. I suggest you do the calc again with the basic faction ammos of like types if you want to have a real discussion.

Otherwise 3/10 for logical fallacy.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-01-03 02:04:42 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Anatoly Vsevolod wrote:
IIshira wrote:
daisy dook wrote:
Are we playing spot the odd ammo type out?

Is it:
1. High damage (reduced flight time)
2. Long Range
3. Long Range or
4.Long Range


I have to agree. You can't compare long range low DPS ammo with high damage short range ammo. If you're going to do that you at least need to put the DPS numbers next to it.


This is not a discussion about DPS . It's about the possibility and consequences of a module to increase range of missiles.
And since when Fury variants for missiles are short range ammo ? So according to you, Rage variants are long range right ? Big smile


Rage is a version of torpedo, assault missile, rocket but not HM..

You are correct that missiles don't specifically have a short and long range but you comparing an extreme long range ammo that is handicapped in DPS and tracking isn't a fair comparison.

Don't get me wrong I would like to see more range on T2 heavy missiles. I think 47km is a bit short and even worse the 31km range of precision heavy missiles. I miss the day when a Drake was actually decent with level 4 missions.

In advance when I say "decent" I don't mean it was as a Raven or anything like that. It was a good alternative for newer pilots that weren't quite ready for a Raven. Now it just plain sucks IMO
Anatoly Vsevolod
Doomheim
#17 - 2014-01-03 03:21:49 UTC
Froggy Storm wrote:
Yes but you are setting up a false argument. By using the long range ammo on your turrets but short range on your missile examples you are over reagerating to (try to) make your point. This throws out most any credibility for your position in said discussion. I suggest you do the calc again with the basic faction ammos of like types if you want to have a real discussion.

Otherwise 3/10 for logical fallacy.


Faction ammo , for missiles ? Surely you are joking ! For turrets yes, it is reliable, but as for the missiles you already know how much of a waste is faction ammo.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#18 - 2014-01-03 05:10:34 UTC
Anatoly Vsevolod wrote:
Froggy Storm wrote:
Yes but you are setting up a false argument. By using the long range ammo on your turrets but short range on your missile examples you are over reagerating to (try to) make your point. This throws out most any credibility for your position in said discussion. I suggest you do the calc again with the basic faction ammos of like types if you want to have a real discussion.

Otherwise 3/10 for logical fallacy.


Faction ammo , for missiles ? Surely you are joking ! For turrets yes, it is reliable, but as for the missiles you already know how much of a waste is faction ammo.



If you are going to quote people you should start actually addressing their points.

Heavy Missiles:
Precision - 31.4km
Fury - 47.2km
T1/Faction - 62.9km

Rails:
Javelin - 9km
Antimatter - 18km
Iron - 18km
Spike - 65km

Seems balanced.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#19 - 2014-01-03 08:32:46 UTC
Anatoly Vsevolod wrote:
On the other hand, anyone who understands how damage application for drones work in this game , understands that assign drones to FC would make them OP. Right ?

having 2500 drones assisted to you is perfectly balanced

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-01-03 12:56:54 UTC
no.

I should buy an Ishtar.
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