EVE General Discussion

The thing is if it would take the same effort to get indy to 5 like it takes to get military to 5 (in terms of time spent) then you probs see more miners in null. And if indy index of 5 would be more common the grief would be reduced aswell. Its even at the moment so unprofitable to mine in null that its easier to just get military to 5 and reprocess the loot into minerals.

Please, by all means attempt to surpass mining levels of minerals by reprocessing rat loot :p

The thing with mining is that it's scaled differently to combat sites is all. One character mining is not as effective as one character ratting, sure. But that's because it's considerably easier to run multiple miners than it is to run multiple ratters. There are people who often field 20+ miners simultaneously. If industry levels were made too much easier those people could single handedly push a system to 5 and hold it. To be honest, if they put in the time, they already can.
No matter how easy you made it though, the level 5s will always attract the most gankers, as they know that's where the most mining is happening.

If Mittani ever tells me that industry in null is pointless I shall tell him he is wrong too. I've not seen anything stating that however. At most people state that it's not as big a jump isk wise from high sec as it should be, which I agree with. But it's FAR FAR FAR away from pointless.

It's not even just supers and titans. Battleships packed are like 50km3. So the most you can get in a JF is 7 of them. Considering how many of them are fielded and need to be replaced, it's simply not feasible to ship them all down.

And the last stats to be release showed that a third of all mining in the game by volume was done in null, and that's mined m3 from asteroids. That's an awful lot of people doing a "pointless" task.

Funny you mention battleships as the whole reason the "Nullsec Industrialization " debate began when the The Mittani was in the CSM because every null sec alliance is completely reliant on HS, including materials for ships.

From that thread many ship builders who operated in null stated that they imported most if not all of their minerals from HS.

The reason being it is far easier to obtain x amount of minerals at x price and transport them from HS (thanks to MCH) then having to recruit x number of miners, find a quite system where they will not be camped 24/7, transport their stuff and pay them.

Even then your limited to what ever they mine so it makes production more unstable.

On top of that you have limited building capacity in Player Owned Stations.

No offence to most miners but they do not want to and are not interested in any kind of PvP so if they do get camped they will just simply log off.

It is far more efficient to mine in the HS as you are not having to dock every time a red comes in your system or if you want to go afk for 5 mins. This is even more prevalent now since inceptor's have received their buff.

Also the stats show while their has been an increase, they do not show what percentage of ore is mine in HS/LS/Null/WH and Gun Mining.

As I said before, the only reason most people are doing Indy in Null Sec is not because they choose to, it is because they have no other choice.

Where their is a choice, the rule is null sec is the worst option.

Everyone blathering about how minerals have to be shipped from high needs to get up to date with the last industrial buff for null. You can get hundreds of ship building slots in a single industrial outpost now, and they massively upped the amount of low end material available in null.

Yes, it still needs either topping up from high, or shipping the high ends back to high to even out the quantities for most ship building. Which is good, it's not a totally closed system. But the reason everyone imported for years was because you couldn't mine enough low ends in null no matter what you did. Now you actually can that ABC/Spod all contain large quantities of low ends (Which also ensure that null mining will always be more profitable than high no matter what mineral prices do)

That reason is no longer true. The problem is there is massive inertia built into the system by now, so people are sticking with the old practice because that's the way it always has been.

They also need to making bumping illegal

Thought OP was heading towards escalations for mining like for combat. Then we could talk about miners farming asteroid belts to L5.

Well the wheels of supercapital (balanced by cost!) proliteration aren't just greased by, it pretty much runs on stuff like large railguns

But what if they were restricted out of hisec?

Imagine this...

Current barge line-up = Hisec only. 1-3 strip miners. Only use drones. Nothing changes here.

Battleship sized miners = Lo/Null/WH only. 4-6 strip miners, even more room, and maybe some actual weaponry, say about cruiser level.

Dreadnaught sized miners = Null/WH only. 8-10 strip miners, obnoxious amounts of storage, and battlecruiser level firepower.

Ahhh look what we've done! A real reason to mine in nullsec? Say it isn't so! Will the nullsec botters freak out in panic or cream themselves in glee? Let's fine out!

WOOOSH!


That was the point flying over your head.

Industry sucks in null, because Mining sucks in general, but especially in null. The two are linked, like a pair of Siamese twins.

Industry needs minerals, LOTS OF MINERALS, and virtually no one in null is going to provide them because there is no ISK incentive to do so. Why mine when you could make twice as much ISK ratting in anomalies. We've already calculated the opportunity cost, and you get a better return skilling up a ratting character, than a mining character. In two months you can skill up a passable ratter, that can also get into cruisers for homeland defense. Meanwhile, in the same period of time, you can skill up a pretty good miner and do absolutely nothing else, because none of the skills he is training, translate into skills to defend the homeland. If there are no miners providing minerals for the production lines, who is going to produce anything. This means you could have stations with a thousand slots each, but nobody is going to use them when they have no minerals to produce anything with. Producers import MCH to have minerals for the big ticket items that would be cost prohibitive to import whole into null, or unable to be produced in highsec at all.

Since there is no ISK incentive to mine anything but the higends, and even then you would be better served by an anomaly ratter making at least half again more than your max skilled miner. Producers import modules to melt for minerals, and since you are already importing mineral modules, might as well import other things to sell on the market as well, and by that point, the producer will ask himself, "Why produce anything that can come from Jita anyway?" The null producer, instantly transforms into an importer, and eleven null production slots miraculously go idle.