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Why do people fly BS?

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#161 - 2014-01-03 09:17:11 UTC
Has everyone here read the amazing highsec vs nullsec income ~the reality~ thread

same MO

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#162 - 2014-01-03 09:20:06 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Its also completely screwed by a T1 Cruiser (Thorax). Rokh vs Thorax
…if you royally screw up the fittings. What the hell are you doing to those poor ships?! Cry

Quote:
Both fit the same weapons, both do roughly the same damage per volley, both fit the same scan res mods however both don't get the same scan res boost. In fact even 4 sebo's don't get the scan res on the Tempest as the Tornado gets with 2...

This diminishing returns on mods is one of the reason BS suck so much. Fitting a high end mod on a battleship often equates to in actuality, fitting a civilian mod, in comparison to fitting that same mod on a smaller ship.
Yes, larger ships lock slower than smaller ships, and module bonuses are relative to the base stats. This is to make so that locking times are (roughly) the same for same-class targets. How does this make battleships suck?

The fittings are not important. The only thing that is important is in all cases a Rax inside 2k of a Rokh, even if the Rax is webbed, and the Rokh has 3 T2 Tracking Comps with Tracking Speed Scripts is invulnerable.

As for fittings they're both fittings from a certain player turned current developer who is quite renowned for his pvp.



And how you GET there on a realistic scenario? And by realistic scenario I mean.... 3 v 3 for example. You really show your lack of understanding of combat whan you fix your mind into hypotetical 1 v1 scenarios where a cruiser jump into a battleship flying alone.. battleships flying alone outside pve are among the rarest things you will see. On a real fight, the battleships will stay roughly 10 km from each other.. so wherever you go you will receive 2 k dps on your head at near perfect range.

The only cruisers capable of matching battleship power are t3, and they are going to be nerfed for a reason.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#163 - 2014-01-03 09:21:26 UTC
The saddest thing is the OP basically only fly destroyers, so we do not even have the chance to in game go prove it to be wrong.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#164 - 2014-01-03 09:23:35 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

You clearly have no clue how to fight don't you? geez... you must be even worse than in the forums.

A cruiser MUST get within 10 km to fight a battleship, or the Battleship will MJD away and leverage on its range advantage. And if you get under 10 km.. your graphs do not look so cute anymore.

Of course 3-4 thoraxes will kill a rokh, but that is how eve is designed, numbers means a lot.
Yeah thats why I have a 6/1 KD completely solo record and why I went to war solo in null vs Tribe and beat them 22/1. Because I don't know to fight.

Now take your same cute throax agaisnt a tempest.. it wil be OBLITERATED , no matter what you try. The same rokh altough has a fair chance of killing the tempest.

Well granted I'm not the best PvP'r. However every kill I have ever had in EvE was entirely solo. I've fought wars against thousands of players and beaten them multiple 10's to 0 k/d.

My last war was against Tribal Band in null, in their main hub system, I beat them 22/1. I have an overall 6/1 solo k/d. So while I'm not the best I do know enough to know how to get under someones guns.

Clearly the graphs I showed show the Rax is invulnerable under 2k. Its very easy to get a Rax under a battleships guns before it can lock you and with a bit of manual piloting its easy to not get hit while you're ingressing.


CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#165 - 2014-01-03 09:23:37 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The saddest thing is the OP basically only fly destroyers, so we do not even have the chance to in game go prove it to be wrong.

ppppft but their elite pvp alt which they don't post on the forums with ....

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#166 - 2014-01-03 09:26:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tasiv Deka
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Its also completely screwed by a T1 Cruiser (Thorax). Rokh vs Thorax
…if you royally screw up the fittings. What the hell are you doing to those poor ships?! Cry

Quote:
Both fit the same weapons, both do roughly the same damage per volley, both fit the same scan res mods however both don't get the same scan res boost. In fact even 4 sebo's don't get the scan res on the Tempest as the Tornado gets with 2...

This diminishing returns on mods is one of the reason BS suck so much. Fitting a high end mod on a battleship often equates to in actuality, fitting a civilian mod, in comparison to fitting that same mod on a smaller ship.
Yes, larger ships lock slower than smaller ships, and module bonuses are relative to the base stats. This is to make so that locking times are (roughly) the same for same-class targets. How does this make battleships suck?

The fittings are not important. The only thing that is important is in all cases a Rax inside 2k of a Rokh, even if the Rax is webbed, and the Rokh has 3 T2 Tracking Comps with Tracking Speed Scripts is invulnerable.

As for fittings they're both fittings from a certain player turned current developer who is quite renowned for his pvp.


Something seems off about your graphs because when i add them up yes the thorax does more dps but not enough to make up for the severe lack in tank compared to the rokh
Edit: Switched the Rokh over to Close range ammo and it does more than the thorax at super close range

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#167 - 2014-01-03 09:26:31 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Its also completely screwed by a T1 Cruiser (Thorax). Rokh vs Thorax
…if you royally screw up the fittings. What the hell are you doing to those poor ships?! Cry

Quote:
Both fit the same weapons, both do roughly the same damage per volley, both fit the same scan res mods however both don't get the same scan res boost. In fact even 4 sebo's don't get the scan res on the Tempest as the Tornado gets with 2...

This diminishing returns on mods is one of the reason BS suck so much. Fitting a high end mod on a battleship often equates to in actuality, fitting a civilian mod, in comparison to fitting that same mod on a smaller ship.
Yes, larger ships lock slower than smaller ships, and module bonuses are relative to the base stats. This is to make so that locking times are (roughly) the same for same-class targets. How does this make battleships suck?

The fittings are not important. The only thing that is important is in all cases a Rax inside 2k of a Rokh, even if the Rax is webbed, and the Rokh has 3 T2 Tracking Comps with Tracking Speed Scripts is invulnerable.

As for fittings they're both fittings from a certain player turned current developer who is quite renowned for his pvp.



And how you GET there on a realistic scenario? And by realistic scenario I mean.... 3 v 3 for example. You really show your lack of understanding of combat whan you fix your mind into hypotetical 1 v1 scenarios where a cruiser jump into a battleship flying alone.. battleships flying alone outside pve are among the rarest things you will see. On a real fight, the battleships will stay roughly 10 km from each other.. so wherever you go you will receive 2 k dps on your head at near perfect range.

The only cruisers capable of matching battleship power are t3, and they are going to be nerfed for a reason.

You cannot make comparisons on a 2 v 1 or 3 vs 1 basis. Of course 3 battleships will beat 1 cruiser. The issue is the inequalities between single ships. The rest is taken care of naturally.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#168 - 2014-01-03 09:28:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The fittings are not important.
Yes they are because if you want to make a sane comparison, equipping one of the ships to deliberately cripple its abilities means you've disqualified every conclusion made from that comparison. Since your graphs are displaying some very odd maximum and minimum damages, your conclusions are… questionable.

Quote:
The only thing that is important is in all cases a Rax inside 2k of a Rokh, even if the Rax is webbed, and the Rokh has 3 T2 Tracking Comps with Tracking Speed Scripts is invulnerable.
…if you shitfit the Rokh, which is why the fittings matter. If not, then the thorax will die in short order.

Quote:
As for fittings they're both fittings from a certain player turned current developer who is quite renowned for his pvp.
Good. Then you can easily provide them without delay.

Quote:
The issue is the inequalities between single ships.
That's only an issue if all ships are intended to be equal in all cases. What makes it a non-issue is that they're not.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#169 - 2014-01-03 09:29:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The fittings are not important.
Yes they are because if you want to make a sane comparison, equipping one of the ships to deliberately cripple its abilities means you've disqualified every conclusion made from that comparison. Since your graphs are displaying some very odd maximum and minimum damages, your conclusions are… questionable.

Quote:
The only thing that is important is in all cases a Rax inside 2k of a Rokh, even if the Rax is webbed, and the Rokh has 3 T2 Tracking Comps with Tracking Speed Scripts is invulnerable.
…if you shitfit the Rokh, which is why the fittings matter. If not, then the thorax will die in short order.

Quote:
As for fittings they're both fittings from a certain player turned current developer who is quite renowned for his pvp.
Good. Then you can provide them.

Oh great, now the "citation needed" "i don't need citations because im da best" arguments start

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#170 - 2014-01-03 09:30:31 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:


You cannot make comparisons on a 2 v 1 or 3 vs 1 basis. Of course 3 battleships will beat 1 cruiser. The issue is the inequalities between single ships. The rest is taken care of naturally.


Re you that unable to read?

3 BS vs 3 cruisers. In fact even 3 battleships vs 6 cruisers!!!! What you think would happen to 6 thoraxes attacking 3 armageddons? or attackign 3 tempests?

Hint.. they would not fire for more than 12 seconds...


"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#171 - 2014-01-03 09:32:24 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


You cannot make comparisons on a 2 v 1 or 3 vs 1 basis. Of course 3 battleships will beat 1 cruiser. The issue is the inequalities between single ships. The rest is taken care of naturally.


Re you that unable to read?

3 BS vs 3 cruisers. In fact even 3 battleships vs 6 cruisers!!!! What you think would happen to 6 thoraxes attacking 3 armageddons? or attackign 3 tempests?

Hint.. they would not fire for more than 12 seconds...

Blobbersssssssss

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#172 - 2014-01-03 09:37:19 UTC
after actually going through and fixing up the graphs its clear to see that a blaster Rokh vs a Rail Thorax (which is what infinity is using) the Rokh is going to do more Dps from 3 kms to 20kms then the thorax. now that 2 kms area the thorax does win out with about 200-250 dps more but even looking at that increase in dps its not enough to change things because of the massive difference in tank

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#173 - 2014-01-03 09:40:59 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


You cannot make comparisons on a 2 v 1 or 3 vs 1 basis. Of course 3 battleships will beat 1 cruiser. The issue is the inequalities between single ships. The rest is taken care of naturally.


Re you that unable to read?

3 BS vs 3 cruisers. In fact even 3 battleships vs 6 cruisers!!!! What you think would happen to 6 thoraxes attacking 3 armageddons? or attackign 3 tempests?

Hint.. they would not fire for more than 12 seconds...



It does not matter. Its not about 3 cruisers vs 3 battleships. Its about 1 battleships ability vs 1 cruisers ability. Setting up scenarios to obfuscate the glaring issues is pointless.

How about I get 1 thorax, and 2 pilgrims. Now your 2 extra Rokhs have no cap and can't hit anything. My Rax pawns them all. That';s why setting up scenarios with multiple and various ship types fails. There's always a counter unless its 1 v 1 in comparison.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#174 - 2014-01-03 09:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Tasiv Deka wrote:
after actually going through and fixing up the graphs its clear to see that a blaster Rokh vs a Rail Thorax (which is what infinity is using) the Rokh is going to do more Dps from 3 kms to 20kms then the thorax. now that 2 kms area the thorax does win out with about 200-250 dps more but even looking at that increase in dps its not enough to change things because of the massive difference in tank

Nah I took off Kil2's rails and disruptor and put on ions and a scram. Rax is doing 550 dps. The fact that theres even a question that a T1 Rax can beat or even nearly beat a Rokh is appalling. Oh yeah and I had to take off the Rokhs tank to fit the useless tracking computers and web.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#175 - 2014-01-03 09:45:33 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tasiv Deka wrote:
after actually going through and fixing up the graphs its clear to see that a blaster Rokh vs a Rail Thorax (which is what infinity is using) the Rokh is going to do more Dps from 3 kms to 20kms then the thorax. now that 2 kms area the thorax does win out with about 200-250 dps more but even looking at that increase in dps its not enough to change things because of the massive difference in tank

Nah I took off Kil2's rails and disruptor and put on ions and a scram. Rax is doing 550 dps.


Ah read the name on the graph and saw rails... well yes with blasters that would be more dps... still not entirely sure it would matter in the end though still alot more to chew through.

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#176 - 2014-01-03 09:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Tasiv Deka wrote:
after actually going through and fixing up the graphs its clear to see that a blaster Rokh vs a Rail Thorax (which is what infinity is using) the Rokh is going to do more Dps from 3 kms to 20kms then the thorax. now that 2 kms area the thorax does win out with about 200-250 dps more but even looking at that increase in dps its not enough to change things because of the massive difference in tank

Clearly one needs to compare them 10v10 to long range ferox that can break the rokh local tank (no logistics ofc)

or even better 50 rokh vs 40 stealth bombers (and 1 bomb truck)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#177 - 2014-01-03 09:46:27 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Setting up scenarios to obfuscate the glaring issues is pointless.
So is setting up obscure scenarios to obfuscate the obvious point that all ships are not intended to be equal in all things.

Quote:
Nah I took off Kil2's rails and disruptor and put on ions and a scram. Rax is doing 550 dps. The fact that theres even a question that a T1 Rax can beat or even nearly beat a Rokh is appalling.
…so you can provide those fits then? And how does chewing through 140k+ EHP with 550 DPS “beat or even nearly beat” chewing through 20:ish k EHP with 400 DPS?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#178 - 2014-01-03 09:47:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Setting up scenarios to obfuscate the glaring issues is pointless.
So is setting up obscure scenarios to obfuscate the obvious point that all ships are not intended to be equal in all things.

Quote:
Nah I took off Kil2's rails and disruptor and put on ions and a scram. Rax is doing 550 dps. The fact that theres even a question that a T1 Rax can beat or even nearly beat a Rokh is appalling.
…so you can provide those fits then? And how does chewing through 140k+ EHP with 550 DPS “beat or even nearly beat” chewing through 20:ish k EHP with 400 DPS?

Also the rokh can probably have a better local rep.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#179 - 2014-01-03 09:49:24 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Setting up scenarios to obfuscate the glaring issues is pointless.
So is setting up obscure scenarios to obfuscate the obvious point that all ships are not intended to be equal in all things.

Quote:
Nah I took off Kil2's rails and disruptor and put on ions and a scram. Rax is doing 550 dps. The fact that theres even a question that a T1 Rax can beat or even nearly beat a Rokh is appalling.
…so you can provide those fits then? And how does chewing through 140k+ EHP with 550 DPS “beat or even nearly beat” chewing through 20:ish k EHP with 400 DPS?

Also the rokh can probably have a better local rep.


No probably if you want anything but anemic dps from the thorax then you have to go asb shield fit and even then the thorax cant rep ****

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#180 - 2014-01-03 09:51:36 UTC
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:
So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.

So what's the point?


DPS <> TANK

I think 250 Dominixes with assisted sentries are better than 250 vexors with assisted sentries.

BLOPS are pretty usefull
and mission runners love the marauders.

Thank you , good bye.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif