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Why do people fly BS?

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Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#261 - 2014-01-03 17:48:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Well the last few pages have been just awful.

The only thing we all got out of them is that infinity is godawful at battleships and has no idea how to use or fit them.

I got a giggle or two.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#262 - 2014-01-03 17:51:21 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The only thing we all got out of them is that infinity is godawful at battleships and has no idea how to use or fit them.

You forgot the mandatory logical fallacy "so therefore BS are terrible"

You all got trolled. puppetmasta

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#263 - 2014-01-03 19:29:09 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Eram Fidard wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The only thing we all got out of them is that infinity is godawful at battleships and has no idea how to use or fit them.

You forgot the mandatory logical fallacy "so therefore BS are terrible"

You all got trolled. puppetmasta


I certainly hope so....

Eram Fidard wrote:
There is one redeeming factor about Ziona's posting.

If he/she is just a troll, it's a pretty damned good one.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#264 - 2014-01-03 23:11:24 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I gave a pretty good explanation

Nowhere in this entire thread have you given anything that amounts to a good explanation of anything except for why you really shouldn't be flying battleships because you suck at them.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#265 - 2014-01-03 23:32:08 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Eram Fidard wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The only thing we all got out of them is that infinity is godawful at battleships and has no idea how to use or fit them.

You forgot the mandatory logical fallacy "so therefore BS are terrible"

You all got trolled. puppetmasta


I certainly hope so....

Eram Fidard wrote:
There is one redeeming factor about Ziona's posting.

If he/she is just a troll, it's a pretty damned good one.

A pretty well responded-to troll, even if the feigning being terrible at the game and being a liar is pretty obvious

I bet some people really think nullsec is 30bil/hr

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#266 - 2014-01-04 00:45:04 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

No they are terrible.


I think perhaps you should stop posting. You have literally an entire thread of people facepalming over each of your posts. Saying that you can't solo roam around nullsec and catch frigates in a battleship is like saying you can't screw lightbulbs in with a Pneumatic drill.

No you can't. But you can't drill holes in the pavement with your hand either. It's a false economy. To paraphrase Einstein 'If you judge a Battleship by its ability to lock frigates, it will live its whole life believing that it is terrible.'

A thread full of blobbers who never used a battleship for pvp in small / solo scenario. As I have stated before, battleships are fine in blobs because other people pick up your slack.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#267 - 2014-01-04 00:47:55 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
A thread full of blobbers who never used a battleship for pvp in small / solo scenario. As I have stated before, battleships are fine in blobs because other people pick up your slack.

Battleships are INTENDED for fleets. Just because you're using them wrong doesn't mean they're awful.
Not all ships are intended to be good solo. That doesn't make them bad ships.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#268 - 2014-01-04 00:49:28 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

No they are terrible.


I think perhaps you should stop posting. You have literally an entire thread of people facepalming over each of your posts. Saying that you can't solo roam around nullsec and catch frigates in a battleship is like saying you can't screw lightbulbs in with a Pneumatic drill.

No you can't. But you can't drill holes in the pavement with your hand either. It's a false economy. To paraphrase Einstein 'If you judge a Battleship by its ability to lock frigates, it will live its whole life believing that it is terrible.'

A thread full of blobbers who never used a battleship for pvp in small / solo scenario. As I have stated before, battleships are fine in blobs because other people pick up your slack.


"Battleships can't solo PvP" he says. Meanwhile, people are out there doing solo PvP in battleships.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#269 - 2014-01-04 01:34:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

No they are terrible.


I think perhaps you should stop posting. You have literally an entire thread of people facepalming over each of your posts. Saying that you can't solo roam around nullsec and catch frigates in a battleship is like saying you can't screw lightbulbs in with a Pneumatic drill.

No you can't. But you can't drill holes in the pavement with your hand either. It's a false economy. To paraphrase Einstein 'If you judge a Battleship by its ability to lock frigates, it will live its whole life believing that it is terrible.'

A thread full of blobbers who never used a battleship for pvp in small / solo scenario. As I have stated before, battleships are fine in blobs because other people pick up your slack.


"Battleships can't solo PvP" he says. Meanwhile, people are out there doing solo PvP in battleships.

I never said they cannot solo PvP. They can. Just not for long (mobility, cloakability), and not against a skilled pilot in a small ship (tracking holes, speed / sig tanking, kiting).

I challenge anyone to take up my offer. I will provide you with a T1 battleship and your desired fit (other than a dominix as it uses non BS specific main weaponry), take it to an area of null that I will select, if you manage 5 pvp kills without popping I'll concede I am wrong. Given I did the same thing in a Proteus and got 22 kills and I apparantly suck you should have no issues. Additionally I'll provide 1 billion isk per kill as a reward (trusted 3rd party).

My prediction: This is how it will end for you

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#270 - 2014-01-04 02:23:43 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

No they are terrible.


I think perhaps you should stop posting. You have literally an entire thread of people facepalming over each of your posts. Saying that you can't solo roam around nullsec and catch frigates in a battleship is like saying you can't screw lightbulbs in with a Pneumatic drill.

No you can't. But you can't drill holes in the pavement with your hand either. It's a false economy. To paraphrase Einstein 'If you judge a Battleship by its ability to lock frigates, it will live its whole life believing that it is terrible.'

A thread full of blobbers who never used a battleship for pvp in small / solo scenario. As I have stated before, battleships are fine in blobs because other people pick up your slack.


"Battleships can't solo PvP" he says. Meanwhile, people are out there doing solo PvP in battleships.

Why do tons of people use battleships

oh because they're blobbers it doesn't count

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Deunan Tenephais
#271 - 2014-01-04 02:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Deunan Tenephais
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Ships are balanced around having ADV weapons upgrades V. IF you dont have it and is forced to limit your fittings, then you cannot complain of the power of your ship.

Anyway, to use a battleship in PVP you should have at LEAST 15 M sp. Before that you shoudluse smaller ships for PVP

I don't have a problem with the fitting, I find that large railguns are really not an improvement compared to medium ones.
You exchange more range for less tracking speed and the dps is near the same, it looks more like a sidegrade than a direct upgrade power-wise imo.

And actually I don't do PvP, I first need a proper income to pay for when I will get podded.



If you fit medium guns on a battleship that has damage bonus, then you should never ever undock that ship. You realize how wrong you are? Why attack BC needed to have 1/3rd of the EHP of combat BC while at same time not sporting drone defenses...? TO compensate a single thing.. LARGE WEAPONS.

They are FAR FAR more powerful than medium ones.

Wait, what, where did I wrote that I fitted medium turrets on battleships ???

I was comparing the dps of medium meta 4 railguns on a battlecruiser (brutix) with (more numerous) large meta 4 railguns fitted to a battleship (megathron) with the same ammo type (antimatter), the same level of relevant skills, near exactly the same fit with adapted size of modules, all of that, and said what I experienced: for a seventh railgun and a third magstab added the increase of dps from medium to large is subpar.
The only good thing out of it is the increased shooting/targeting range, frankly I do not find it very worthwile considering the amount of hitpoints one can find in L4.
So for now I'm back in my brutix doing L3 and looking more and more at the Brutix Navy Issue.

EDIT: I just calculated the difference in dps between 250mm meta 4 rail and 425mm meta 4.
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
24 (14/10) Base Charge Damage (Antimatter)
X 4.17 Damage Modifier
5.42s Rate of Fire
Dps: 18.465

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
48 (28/20) Base Charge Damage (Antimatter)
X 3.63 Damage Modifier
9.56s Rate of Fire
Dps: 18.226

Basically, at equal bonuses the medium version does more dps than the large one.
Of course the large have far more range but it has also far less tracking speed.
If the increased range is the only thing that is bettered then it is disapointing.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#272 - 2014-01-04 02:46:38 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

No they are terrible.


I think perhaps you should stop posting. You have literally an entire thread of people facepalming over each of your posts. Saying that you can't solo roam around nullsec and catch frigates in a battleship is like saying you can't screw lightbulbs in with a Pneumatic drill.

No you can't. But you can't drill holes in the pavement with your hand either. It's a false economy. To paraphrase Einstein 'If you judge a Battleship by its ability to lock frigates, it will live its whole life believing that it is terrible.'

A thread full of blobbers who never used a battleship for pvp in small / solo scenario. As I have stated before, battleships are fine in blobs because other people pick up your slack.


"Battleships can't solo PvP" he says. Meanwhile, people are out there doing solo PvP in battleships.

Why do tons of people use battleships

oh because they're blobbers it doesn't count

Yeah because logically a blob combines the best elements of all its component ships, the vulnerabilities are reduced or eliminated by the addition of ships with those strengths.

Can a Megathron tackle a cruiser at gate reliably? No
Can a Megathron and an interceptor tackle a cruiser at a gate reliably? Yes?

If you said yes you're wrong. The interceptor can tackle the cruiser at a gate reliably. The Mega's deficiencies are just masked. The more ships you add the more deficiencies are masked.

If the Mega is at the gate by itself, it cannot engage reliably. Only the cruiser can force the engagement. If the cruiser wishes it can even kill the Mega depending on fits. In short the most powerful subcap in the game (not in actuality) is the weakest.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#273 - 2014-01-04 03:21:09 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Ships are balanced around having ADV weapons upgrades V. IF you dont have it and is forced to limit your fittings, then you cannot complain of the power of your ship.

Anyway, to use a battleship in PVP you should have at LEAST 15 M sp. Before that you shoudluse smaller ships for PVP

I don't have a problem with the fitting, I find that large railguns are really not an improvement compared to medium ones.
You exchange more range for less tracking speed and the dps is near the same, it looks more like a sidegrade than a direct upgrade power-wise imo.

And actually I don't do PvP, I first need a proper income to pay for when I will get podded.



If you fit medium guns on a battleship that has damage bonus, then you should never ever undock that ship. You realize how wrong you are? Why attack BC needed to have 1/3rd of the EHP of combat BC while at same time not sporting drone defenses...? TO compensate a single thing.. LARGE WEAPONS.

They are FAR FAR more powerful than medium ones.

Wait, what, where did I wrote that I fitted medium turrets on battleships ???

I was comparing the dps of medium meta 4 railguns on a battlecruiser (brutix) with (more numerous) large meta 4 railguns fitted to a battleship (megathron) with the same ammo type (antimatter), the same level of relevant skills, near exactly the same fit with adapted size of modules, all of that, and said what I experienced: for a seventh railgun and a third magstab added the increase of dps from medium to large is subpar.
The only good thing out of it is the increased shooting/targeting range, frankly I do not find it very worthwile considering the amount of hitpoints one can find in L4.
So for now I'm back in my brutix doing L3 and looking more and more at the Brutix Navy Issue.

EDIT: I just calculated the difference in dps between 250mm meta 4 rail and 425mm meta 4.
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
24 (14/10) Base Charge Damage (Antimatter)
X 4.17 Damage Modifier
5.42s Rate of Fire
Dps: 18.465

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
48 (28/20) Base Charge Damage (Antimatter)
X 3.63 Damage Modifier
9.56s Rate of Fire
Dps: 18.226

Basically, at equal bonuses the medium version does more dps than the large one.
Of course the large have far more range but it has also far less tracking speed.
If the increased range is the only thing that is bettered then it is disapointing.

are we just shooting structures that don't shoot back

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#274 - 2014-01-04 03:29:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Ships are balanced around having ADV weapons upgrades V. IF you dont have it and is forced to limit your fittings, then you cannot complain of the power of your ship.

Anyway, to use a battleship in PVP you should have at LEAST 15 M sp. Before that you shoudluse smaller ships for PVP

I don't have a problem with the fitting, I find that large railguns are really not an improvement compared to medium ones.
You exchange more range for less tracking speed and the dps is near the same, it looks more like a sidegrade than a direct upgrade power-wise imo.

And actually I don't do PvP, I first need a proper income to pay for when I will get podded.



If you fit medium guns on a battleship that has damage bonus, then you should never ever undock that ship. You realize how wrong you are? Why attack BC needed to have 1/3rd of the EHP of combat BC while at same time not sporting drone defenses...? TO compensate a single thing.. LARGE WEAPONS.

They are FAR FAR more powerful than medium ones.

Wait, what, where did I wrote that I fitted medium turrets on battleships ???

I was comparing the dps of medium meta 4 railguns on a battlecruiser (brutix) with (more numerous) large meta 4 railguns fitted to a battleship (megathron) with the same ammo type (antimatter), the same level of relevant skills, near exactly the same fit with adapted size of modules, all of that, and said what I experienced: for a seventh railgun and a third magstab added the increase of dps from medium to large is subpar.
The only good thing out of it is the increased shooting/targeting range, frankly I do not find it very worthwile considering the amount of hitpoints one can find in L4.
So for now I'm back in my brutix doing L3 and looking more and more at the Brutix Navy Issue.

EDIT: I just calculated the difference in dps between 250mm meta 4 rail and 425mm meta 4.
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
24 (14/10) Base Charge Damage (Antimatter)
X 4.17 Damage Modifier
5.42s Rate of Fire
Dps: 18.465

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
48 (28/20) Base Charge Damage (Antimatter)
X 3.63 Damage Modifier
9.56s Rate of Fire
Dps: 18.226

Basically, at equal bonuses the medium version does more dps than the large one.
Of course the large have far more range but it has also far less tracking speed.
If the increased range is the only thing that is bettered then it is disapointing.

are we just shooting structures that don't shoot back

Oh one more thing about your "heaps of people using them" Goons use them for cheap fleets vs what? Primarily caps and other BS. Likely also at range too and cyno'd around. This eliminates the majority of tracking / sig / mobility issues that kill them for solo / small gang.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#275 - 2014-01-04 03:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah because logically a blob combines the best elements of all its component ships, the vulnerabilities are reduced or eliminated by the addition of ships with those strengths.

Can a Megathron tackle a cruiser at gate reliably? No
Can a Megathron and an interceptor tackle a cruiser at a gate reliably? Yes?

If you said yes you're wrong. The interceptor can tackle the cruiser at a gate reliably. The Mega's deficiencies are just masked. The more ships you add the more deficiencies are masked.

If the Mega is at the gate by itself, it cannot engage reliably. Only the cruiser can force the engagement. If the cruiser wishes it can even kill the Mega depending on fits. In short the most powerful subcap in the game (not in actuality) is the weakest.


Yeah, who knew fleets mixed compositions...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#276 - 2014-01-04 03:35:59 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah because logically a blob combines the best elements of all its component ships, the vulnerabilities are reduced or eliminated by the addition of ships with those strengths.

Can a Megathron tackle a cruiser at gate reliably? No
Can a Megathron and an interceptor tackle a cruiser at a gate reliably? Yes?

If you said yes you're wrong. The interceptor can tackle the cruiser at a gate reliably. The Mega's deficiencies are just masked. The more ships you add the more deficiencies are masked.

If the Mega is at the gate by itself, it cannot engage reliably. Only the cruiser can force the engagement. If the cruiser wishes it can even kill the Mega depending on fits. In short the most powerful subcap in the game (not in actuality) is the weakest.

Yeah, who knew fleets mixed compositions...

Well if you just had a massive blob of archons

no wait, must add some supercaps

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#277 - 2014-01-04 03:36:22 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:

Basically, at equal bonuses the medium version does more dps than the large one.
Of course the large have far more range but it has also far less tracking speed.
If the increased range is the only thing that is bettered then it is disapointing.

Someone gets it and is not blinded by bias. Astounding.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#278 - 2014-01-04 03:37:17 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:

Basically, at equal bonuses the medium version does more dps than the large one.
Of course the large have far more range but it has also far less tracking speed.
If the increased range is the only thing that is bettered then it is disapointing.

Someone gets it and is not blinded by bias. Astounding.

Yeah except they were wrong.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#279 - 2014-01-04 03:39:32 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:

Basically, at equal bonuses the medium version does more dps than the large one.
Of course the large have far more range but it has also far less tracking speed.
If the increased range is the only thing that is bettered then it is disapointing.

Someone gets it and is not blinded by bias. Astounding.

Yeah except they were wrong.

Astounding.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#280 - 2014-01-04 03:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah because logically a blob combines the best elements of all its component ships, the vulnerabilities are reduced or eliminated by the addition of ships with those strengths.

Can a Megathron tackle a cruiser at gate reliably? No
Can a Megathron and an interceptor tackle a cruiser at a gate reliably? Yes?

If you said yes you're wrong. The interceptor can tackle the cruiser at a gate reliably. The Mega's deficiencies are just masked. The more ships you add the more deficiencies are masked.

If the Mega is at the gate by itself, it cannot engage reliably. Only the cruiser can force the engagement. If the cruiser wishes it can even kill the Mega depending on fits. In short the most powerful subcap in the game (not in actuality) is the weakest.


Yeah, who knew fleets mixed compositions...

My point is if you want an accurate overall comparison of a ship you don't throw it into a fleet. You look at its individual attributes versus other ships.

Battleships were not designed as fleet ships. Nor intended to only be used in fleets. How do I know this? Because they were in before fleets were even considered as a game mechanic.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)