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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Was this intended by the Devs that made Faction Warfare?
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Sasha Vaille
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2014-01-03 17:26:10 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:


What's an issue is being able to sit in a ship on a station undock indefinitely without the FW cops showing up to pew pew you.

Those of us that actually play for PVP and not for minimal risk ganking think this is dumb. It's dumb because it's broken. Painfully obviously broken.

And it's broken because CCP has a list of a 1,000 things to do and none of them are FW.




I <3 you. Perhaps the only person in this thread who is not a troll, making sense, thinks very well and gets what the issue is that I am trying to raise.



<3


CCP before you fix anything else please put a heart icon in the forums!
Sasha Vaille
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-01-03 17:30:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Vaille
I wonder if a CCP Dev will comment on this.

How about making it so that if you use a ship maintainance bay/ship hangar, when criminally flagged, the pilot (Orca for example) also becomes criminally flagged. The same thing was done with Neutral out of corp logistics pilots not long ago.


Also, how about giving the option to turn off fireworks in the graphics section?


And, disallow a FW character from docking in enemy stations especially in enemy space. Just like in Nullsec, where foes cannot dock at the station of the corp/alliance that holds SOV.


Thanks for reading.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#43 - 2014-01-03 18:37:13 UTC
Trust me, we all get your "issue".

Most of the folks trolling you are doing so because of the perceived silliness of your question and the obvious lack of research on your part. Of course the mechanics were intended that way, why would you think otherwise? I have been in FW for many years and there have always been ways to get the Faction Police to **** off in high sec while ganking war targets.

When joining FW one should treat it as though you just declared war on a large corp with several thousand people in it, why anyone would think different is beyond me.


If you would like to verify it for yourself it's fairly simple, file a petition about the issue and wait for an answer. If you don't like the answer, try escalating it to a senior GM.







Sasha Vaille wrote:


Perhaps the only person in this thread who is not a troll, making sense, thinks very well and gets what the issue is that I am trying to raise.



nom nom
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#44 - 2014-01-03 19:00:26 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
It is easy enough to avoid, and easy to counter. Make an undock bookmark so you can just insta-warp off from the station before the invuln timer wears off. If you're worried about lag, turn down your graphics before undocking.

And if you want to get vengeance, get a fast ship with tackle (or tanky ship). Or if they're quick at warping, use a cov ops ship so you can cloak up to them and then tackle. Navy NPCs will do the rest.

And as said above, you can just use a different toon for shopping.

There are problems with FW, but this isn't one of them. It's standard station camping games that happens in any war scenario, not unique to FW, and just as avoidable.


Navy npcs don't do anything. Dav Varan sits in a battleship on the jita undock and killls players all day erry day because of the issue OP mentioned. This is empire highsec. They should be responding to an enemy fw battleship with carriers and dreads in other words dav varans vargur goes pop and some sense of credibility returns to this half assed feature.
Icarius
The Wings of Maak
#45 - 2014-01-03 19:22:50 UTC
3 pages for an atron and a pod ....

but i agree:
- seeing a BS, Marauder or anything else in hostile hi sec with no police around him should be fixed
- neutral remotre should be fixed too, neutral remote should attacked too by an additionnal spawn as soon they start remoting

ha ... and sorry for the op but you are now in my contact list as futur victim P ... in hi sec of course
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
#46 - 2014-01-03 20:37:46 UTC  |  Edited by: ALUCARD 1208
Icarius wrote:



- seeing a BS, Marauder or anything else in hostile hi sec with no police around him should be fixed
- neutral remotre should be fixed too, neutral remote should attacked too by an additionnal spawn as soon they start remoting



The npcs have already spawned for dav he just deals with them in a certain way and doesnt use any remote rep magic either otherwise it would become flagged ........

He also just doesnt sit in his varg all day he often uses a variety of ships including tornados which when people man up he often loses so no the mechanic is not broken

Long Live Dav King Of Jita

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#47 - 2014-01-03 20:43:26 UTC
Thing is, there is limited number of Navy spawns, so if you make those navies busy they will not engage guy sitting on undock.

There is several ways to make navy busy, some of those methods are considered as an exploit but there is several ways to do it by rules.

So thing that some one can sit freely on undock usually means that there is somekind of system behind it and usually there is couple players doing something fancy to make it happen.

So even it seems quite simple station camp, it is still one of the most complex ways to pvp in EVE if you look it as whole.

Only reason why you cry about it is that you can not do the same and no one is going to tell you how to do it.
Sasha Vaille
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2014-01-03 20:51:50 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Thing is, there is limited number of Navy spawns, so if you make those navies busy they will not engage guy sitting on undock.


So thing that some one can sit freely on undock







Thank you for finally proving my point and agreeing with me.
Sasha Vaille
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2014-01-03 20:53:46 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
It is easy enough to avoid, and easy to counter. Make an undock bookmark so you can just insta-warp off from the station before the invuln timer wears off. If you're worried about lag, turn down your graphics before undocking.

And if you want to get vengeance, get a fast ship with tackle (or tanky ship). Or if they're quick at warping, use a cov ops ship so you can cloak up to them and then tackle. Navy NPCs will do the rest.

And as said above, you can just use a different toon for shopping.

There are problems with FW, but this isn't one of them. It's standard station camping games that happens in any war scenario, not unique to FW, and just as avoidable.


Navy npcs don't do anything. Dav Varan sits in a battleship on the jita undock and killls players all day erry day because of the issue OP mentioned. This is empire highsec. They should be responding to an enemy fw battleship with carriers and dreads in other words dav varans vargur goes pop and some sense of credibility returns to this half assed feature.




Yes this is exactly the sort of feedback that is needed for this game as opposed to goon fangirls.


Thanks Caleb, I think to see thinkers.
Sasha Vaille
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2014-01-03 20:56:53 UTC
Icarius wrote:
3 pages for an atron and a pod ....

but i agree:
- seeing a BS, Marauder or anything else in hostile hi sec with no police around him should be fixed
- neutral remotre should be fixed too, neutral remote should attacked too by an additionnal spawn as soon they start remoting

ha ... and sorry for the op but you are now in my contact list as futur victim P ... in hi sec of course




Lets' hope I am bad at PVP and do not post your loss mail in here Pirate
Lysenko Alland
Ubiquitous Hurt
The WeHurt Initiative
#51 - 2014-01-03 21:28:24 UTC
Having read all of this, I don't get what the fuss is all about. An insta-undock bookmark is a complete workaround for this issue. I recommend making one with a neutral alt and using it.

I have found that it's helpful to open the Places tab before undocking, since clicking in space on the Amarr undock can be difficult when it's busy.
Chancey Pants
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2014-01-03 22:09:46 UTC
My new motto.

I am lazy and smarter people always beat me at this game.
Please CCP, change this game so that smarter people who put effort into this game alway lose.

Thank you OP for helping.

Seriously though I have nothing to do with FW. However after reading a bit of lore and reading articles on how faction warfare is designed to work I can completely see that this is an intended mechanic.

Your main argument that an opposing faction member should not be allowed to sit on an undock is completely correct. However the part you are missing is that it is your responsibility as a militia member to ensure that is not possible for them . If you and the rest of your militia is unable to preform that duty then maybe you do not deserve that station.

Honestly you proposed the idea of null mechanics where non blue are not allowed to dock. Well in null if an opposing group station camp and prevent access to a station or in your case access to a system cause you can't figure out how to undock. Well if the station owners are prevented from undocking guess what happens. They lose control of said station and the entire system.

So I propose that if you want to be able to dock and play yourhighsec games while at war then you have to be prepared to fight said war.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#53 - 2014-01-03 22:31:35 UTC
Sasha Vaille wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Thing is, there is limited number of Navy spawns, so if you make those navies busy they will not engage guy sitting on undock.


So thing that some one can sit freely on undock







Thank you for finally proving my point and agreeing with me.


there is nothing wrong on that, so i did not prove your point anyhow.
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-01-04 17:04:33 UTC
I think the only thing that should happen is that high sec Gallente militia stations should be locked to non-Gallente FW players. Every other station could be open to them, but watching a Caldari player undock and dock in a Gallente militia station after shooting Gallente ships is quite absurd.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#55 - 2014-01-05 19:40:44 UTC
Im in a corporation that's on a war, and im being killed by enemies. OMG NO!!!!

The Tears Must Flow
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#56 - 2014-01-06 03:48:51 UTC
OP you have a hit on a good topic but your perspective is all screwed up.

Faction Police and Navies need to be removed from the game entirely.
YOU signed up to be at war 24/7.

Why do you feel you should have 'Friendly NPC's' or 'Safe Space' to protect you when no other war dec in eve offers the protection already automatically given to fw players.



Remove all 'protection' from people who join FW and then sit and bear it up in high sec.
The people who actually participate in FW where they are suppose to (low sec) will not be effected.
There are a grand total of ZERO reasons for any fw toon to enter high sec anyway.

Spare account slot toon needs maybe a day of training to do 99% of the hauling you will require for FW.




https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2014-01-06 04:36:27 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
OP you have a hit on a good topic but your perspective is all screwed up.

Faction Police and Navies need to be removed from the game entirely.
YOU signed up to be at war 24/7.

Why do you feel you should have 'Friendly NPC's' or 'Safe Space' to protect you when no other war dec in eve offers the protection already automatically given to fw players.



Remove all 'protection' from people who join FW and then sit and bear it up in high sec.
The people who actually participate in FW where they are suppose to (low sec) will not be effected.
There are a grand total of ZERO reasons for any fw toon to enter high sec anyway.

Spare account slot toon needs maybe a day of training to do 99% of the hauling you will require for FW.



Of course we signed up to be at war, no one has contested this.

There is no "protection" for people in high sec. This is about facing NPC push back for operating in the secured (high sec) systems you are at war with.

A mechanic you will note is in the game and intended, and must be gamed at some length to bug into being broken.

There are fw stations in high sec. "ZERO reasons" ??

If devs intended anything that you elude to in your blathering, we wouldn't have anything like the structure that is currently in place.

And here we arrive at that wonderful and all-too-common forum conclusion.
You're either trolling, or worse yet, have no clue what it is you're going on about. Blink

Just another "htfu" forum warrior with no point and no clue. Roll

The only people that want safety are the people playing dock/undock games in their enemy space after having their alts tie up the NPC cops that should and are intended to spawn in response to their activity.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2014-01-06 04:37:47 UTC
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:
I think the only thing that should happen is that high sec Gallente militia stations should be locked to non-Gallente FW players. Every other station could be open to them, but watching a Caldari player undock and dock in a Gallente militia station after shooting Gallente ships is quite absurd.


obviously

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#59 - 2014-01-06 04:43:21 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
OP you have a hit on a good topic but your perspective is all screwed up.

Faction Police and Navies need to be removed from the game entirely.
YOU signed up to be at war 24/7.

Why do you feel you should have 'Friendly NPC's' or 'Safe Space' to protect you when no other war dec in eve offers the protection already automatically given to fw players.



Remove all 'protection' from people who join FW and then sit and bear it up in high sec.
The people who actually participate in FW where they are suppose to (low sec) will not be effected.
There are a grand total of ZERO reasons for any fw toon to enter high sec anyway.

Spare account slot toon needs maybe a day of training to do 99% of the hauling you will require for FW.



Of course we signed up to be at war, no one has contested this.

There is no "protection" for people in high sec. This is about facing NPC push back for operating in the secured (high sec) systems you are at war with.

A mechanic you will note is in the game and intended, and must be gamed at some length to bug into being broken.

There are fw stations in high sec. "ZERO reasons" ??

If devs intended anything that you elude to in your blathering, we wouldn't have anything like the structure that is currently in place.

And here we arrive at that wonderful and all-too-common forum conclusion.
You're either trolling, or worse yet, have no clue what it is you're going on about. Blink

Just another "htfu" forum warrior with no point and no clue. Roll

The only people that want safety are the people playing dock/undock games in their enemy space after having their alts tie up the NPC cops that should and are intended to spawn in response to their activity.



Or

You are **** at eve and want the game changed to suit you.


:)

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#60 - 2014-01-06 05:31:54 UTC
Show us on the doll where the ebil highsec ganker touched you.


You already have have several NPC ships that apply dps and web your target for you. The navy sends ships to intercept enemy incursions into their space (the devs made it the way it is now so people can fight in opposing space, even though it is at a disadvantage, it is still possible). The **** is OP. I wish i had that much dps following me around in lowsec to help me. Honestly I would say up your game or FW isn't for you. It's not meant to be risk free, FYI.