These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Petition to Ban Isobox/Vec, bots and other similar program

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mag's
Azn Empire
#241 - 2014-01-01 19:21:06 UTC
Here we go again.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#242 - 2014-01-01 19:24:06 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
well ok but this thread and countless others request whats totally justified in nature of things being automated by tools like isboxer.

…except that isboxer does not automate anything, and that any botting tool you tie into the multiboxing software is already disallowed irrespective of the multiboxing.

So the requested policy is already in effect and has been for… oh… pretty much the entire lifetime of the game.

it does very well, beoadcasting input and so creating copycat bots is a simple form of automation

a copycat bot, what is this

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#243 - 2014-01-01 19:34:34 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

a copycat bot, what is this
It's a way of getting the word BOT into the discussion, when talking about key stroke duplication/replication. It makes it sound more edgy.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#244 - 2014-01-01 19:38:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Mag's wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

a copycat bot, what is this
It's a way of getting the word BOT into the discussion, when talking about key stroke duplication/replication. It makes it sound more edgy.

edgy huh

Like how in every ganking discussion "griefing" must come up

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#245 - 2014-01-01 19:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Robert Caldera wrote:
it does very well, beoadcasting input and so creating copycat bots is a simple form of automation

Not as far as the EULA is concerned, no. It doesn't automate and it certainly doesn't create any bots.

Again, the policy you're requesting is already in place, and as expected, it has nothing to do with multiboxing software.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#246 - 2014-01-01 19:42:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
it does very well, beoadcasting input and so creating copycat bots is a simple form of automation

Not as far as the EULA is concerned, no. It doesn't automate and it certainly doesn't create any bots.

Again, the policy you're requesting is already in place, and as expected, it has nothing to do with multiboxing software.

Well clearly they are looking for a change

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#247 - 2014-01-01 19:45:41 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Well clearly they are looking for a change

I suppose that wanting the policy removed would at least offer some kind rational motivation for all this kvetching…
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#248 - 2014-01-01 19:46:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
they just want a no isboxers ever policy is all

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#249 - 2014-01-01 19:46:40 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

a copycat bot, what is this
It's a way of getting the word BOT into the discussion, when talking about key stroke duplication/replication. It makes it sound more edgy.

edgy huh

Like how in every ganking discussion "griefing" must come up
Pretty much, but also including but not limited to morals and the need for a psychiatrist.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#250 - 2014-01-01 20:27:39 UTC
CCP Stillman isn't gone more than 24 hours and people want to bring this up again Shocked

Okay, first, the software in question is called Inner Space. Inner Space is the engine for some very powerful bots flying around New Eden. However, Inner Space is also the engine for ISBoxer, which is called an "extension" in Inner Space terminology. Inner Space, in the way it works, does qualify as client modification under Section 9C of the EVE Online EULA. That is why people detected using a bot powered by Inner Space receive a permanent ban for a first offense instead of a 30-day ban.

However, CCP does have a posted policy concerning third party applications. Here are the sections of the EULA the policy quotes under client modification.

CCP Policy on Client Modification wrote:

6. CONDUCT

A. Specifically Restricted Conduct

2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.

3. You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


As well as 9.C:

You may not reverse engineer, disassemble or decompile, or attempt to reverse engineer or derive source code from, all or any portion of the Software, or from any information accessible through the System (including, without limitation, data packets transmitted to and from the System over the Internet), or anything incorporated therein, or analyze, decipher, "sniff" or derive code (or attempt to do any of the foregoing) from any packet stream transmitted to or from the System, whether encrypted or not, or permit any third party to do any of the same, and you hereby expressly waive any legal rights you may have to do so. If the Software and/or the System contains license management technology, you may not circumvent or disable that technology.


In a dev blog explaining the policy, CCP Stillman wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:

This extends to multiboxing software. Some of the multiboxing software out there is powerful enough to count as “client modification” if used for that purpose. Our stance on third-party software is that we do not endorse such software as we have no control over what it does. As such, we can’t say that multiboxing software isn’t against our EULA. But the same goes in this case, that unless we determine that people are doing things beyond “multiboxing”, we will not be taking any action. We only care about the instances where people are messing with our process for the purposes of cheating, and running multiple clients at the same time is not in violation of our EULA in and of itself unless it involves trial accounts.


That multi-boxing software referred to in CCP Stillman's dev blog as counting as "client modification" was Inner Space and the ISBoxer extension. So that means that as long as users don't do anything funny and to something like add the autopilot warp to 0 code to ISBoxer that CCP will not ban users.

And since CCP Stillman is no longer working at CCP, I'll just add the rest of the policy on client modification.

CCP Policy on Client Modification wrote:

We do not endorse or condone the use of any third party applications or other software that modifies the client or otherwise confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay. For instance, the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) and the multiboxing application is not something we plan to actively police at this time. However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans. Please use such third party applications or other software at your own risk.

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#251 - 2014-01-01 21:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Tippia wrote:
Not as far as the EULA is concerned, no. It doesn't automate and it certainly doesn't create any bots.

maybe it is not considered strictly as EULA violation yet, but this is the reason we post here - it should be.

Tippia wrote:
Again, the policy you're requesting is already in place, and as expected, it has nothing to do with multiboxing software.

I'm asking for a policy against isboxer fleets, because they are automated bots copying tasks from your main client and so acting on their own.

Alavaria Fera wrote:

a copycat bot, what is this


a client copying input from others, whatever you do, the 30 clients in your back do the same automatically.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#252 - 2014-01-01 21:15:04 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Not as far as the EULA is concerned, no. It doesn't automate and it certainly doesn't create any bots.

maybe it is not considered strictly as EULA violation yet, but this is the reason we post here - it should be.

Tippia wrote:
Again, the policy you're requesting is already in place, and as expected, it has nothing to do with multiboxing software.

I'm asking for a policy against isboxer fleets, because they are automated bots copying tasks from your main client and so acting on their own.

Alavaria Fera wrote:
a copycat bot, what is this

a client copying input from others, whatever you do, the 30 clients in your back do the same automatically.

You can do better than that

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#253 - 2014-01-01 21:36:11 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:

I'm asking for a policy against isboxer fleets, because they are automated bots copying tasks from your main client and so acting on their own.


If you really want people to take you seriously, you need to use the proper terminology. People using the ISBoxer extension are not botting. If you are against people paying $15 every 3 months or $50 a year for software that allows ISBoxer users to gain an advantage over multi-boxers who use alt-tab or have multiple windows open in order to issue commands to individual clients one at a time instead of launching the input to multiple clients at the same time with one keystroke, then you should state that.

And to all the ISBoxer fans, I do know that you can turn that feature off and just use the Inner Space interface to rapidly cycle through the clients to give individual commands. I also know that in some cases that those using the alt-tab method are more efficient than those using ISBoxer due to the weaknesses of ISBoxer. I've actually heard that some people prefer to disable the mass broadcasting of input for just that reason. But I don't have links for that.

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"
Xol'tan
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#254 - 2014-01-01 21:36:58 UTC
BAN ALL ISBOXER USERS!!!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#255 - 2014-01-01 21:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Rosewalker wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:

I'm asking for a policy against isboxer fleets, because they are automated bots copying tasks from your main client and so acting on their own.

If you really want people to take you seriously, you need to use the proper terminology. People using the ISBoxer extension are not botting. If you are against people paying $15 every 3 months or $50 a year for software that allows ISBoxer users to gain an advantage over multi-boxers who use alt-tab or have multiple windows open in order to issue commands to individual clients one at a time instead of launching the input to multiple clients at the same time with one keystroke, then you should state that.

And to all the ISBoxer fans, I do know that you can turn that feature off and just use the Inner Space interface to rapidly cycle through the clients to give individual commands. I also know that in some cases that those using the alt-tab method are more efficient than those using ISBoxer due to the weaknesses of ISBoxer. I've actually heard that some people prefer to disable the mass broadcasting of input for just that reason. But I don't have links for that.

b0t b0t b0t

CCP won't fall for it you know. They're more intelligent than the GD posters who might fall for that kind of thing.


Well, the broadcasting system seems like it would be handy if you'd otherwise be repeating the same thing (like emptying your cargohold of ore)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#256 - 2014-01-01 21:48:18 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rosewalker wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:

I'm asking for a policy against isboxer fleets, because they are automated bots copying tasks from your main client and so acting on their own.

If you really want people to take you seriously, you need to use the proper terminology. People using the ISBoxer extension are not botting. If you are against people paying $15 every 3 months or $50 a year for software that allows ISBoxer users to gain an advantage over multi-boxers who use alt-tab or have multiple windows open in order to issue commands to individual clients one at a time instead of launching the input to multiple clients at the same time with one keystroke, then you should state that.

And to all the ISBoxer fans, I do know that you can turn that feature off and just use the Inner Space interface to rapidly cycle through the clients to give individual commands. I also know that in some cases that those using the alt-tab method are more efficient than those using ISBoxer due to the weaknesses of ISBoxer. I've actually heard that some people prefer to disable the mass broadcasting of input for just that reason. But I don't have links for that.

b0t b0t b0t

CCP won't fall for it you know. They're more intelligent than the GD posters who might fall for that kind of thing.


I know. But I wind up reading threads like this and I get really annoyed. I should stop visiting these forums.

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#257 - 2014-01-01 21:50:17 UTC
Xol'tan wrote:
BAN ALL ISBOXER USERS!!!


Did someone miss their meds today?

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#258 - 2014-01-01 21:53:32 UTC
Rosewalker wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

CCP won't fall for it you know. They're more intelligent than the GD posters who might fall for that kind of thing.

I know. But I wind up reading threads like this and I get really annoyed. I should stop visiting these forums.

No actually it's important, because if all there is to read is that gankers are griefing and multiboxers are botting, they might actually fall for it...

Now tracking titans were perfectly balanced and remote aoe doomsdays were supposed to be rare anyway. also drone assist is like a gift from ccp to humanity and must never be harmed

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#259 - 2014-01-01 21:54:23 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Well, the broadcasting system seems like it would be handy if you'd otherwise be repeating the same thing (like emptying your cargohold of ore)


And that is an example of how people could argue that ISBoxer violates Section 6A3 of the EULA.

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#260 - 2014-01-01 21:56:26 UTC
Rosewalker wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Well, the broadcasting system seems like it would be handy if you'd otherwise be repeating the same thing (like emptying your cargohold of ore)


And that is an example of how people could argue that ISBoxer violates Section 6A3 of the EULA.

giving newbies billions also violates some other part, i remember someone trying to get the whole cfc banned when a newbie got broadcasted about in all-all and got handed like 10 billion or something

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?