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Petition to Ban Isobox/Vec, bots and other similar program

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Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#221 - 2014-01-01 17:42:37 UTC
"nothing to mine" !!!! omg ... anyone who says this is a complete fool. But keep posting so i can laugh at you.

I frequently offer free boosts in highsec sectors packed with "things to mine" but people rarely take up the offer because 10 jumps is TOO FAR.

So yeah keep crying people for the poor poor noobies. Roll

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#222 - 2014-01-01 17:44:43 UTC
Tippia wrote:
No automation took place as far as the EULA is concerned.

it is indeed a form of automation, even confirmed by CCP.

Tippia wrote:
then the problem is in the botting software, not the multiboxing software. They are completely separate considerations.

but still, both are violations of EULA.

Tippia wrote:
It never happened. I know the incident you're talking about and the thread it spawned. Guess where it ended up? Pointing to the official Lead GM statement that multiboxing software is not against the EULA.
no but some parts of them are. How does this linked statement contradict or neutralize the one I linked? Right, it doesnt.

[quote=Tippia]Incorrect. It is just replication, which is allowed. Your attempts to redefine one as the other does not change how the terms are used as far as the EULA is concerned.

I gave you a reference to a GM post which says the opposite.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#223 - 2014-01-01 17:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Tippia wrote:
So why are you?

I am what? Stomping? I dont.

Tippia wrote:
The Lead GM response on the matter is still — and always has been — that multiboxing software is allowed. Every time people have asked, the answer has been that the policy has not changed.

noone argues about multiboxing itself, for the 348587934th time. Its automating/broadcasting inputs which is not covered by term "multiboxing" and is violation of EULA.

Tippia wrote:
For me, their stance doesn't matter in the slightest. What matters for multiboxers is that the official policy is that the EULA does not prohibit the use of multiboxing software.

well if you turn blind eye and ignore hints given to you by GMs whats allowed and what not, its your problem, running into bannable EULA violations and get banned, for a very very good reason, using said parts of isbox we here all argue about.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#224 - 2014-01-01 17:49:59 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
well they always said using 3rd party tools is your own risk, they can ban you at will and dont need any further reasoning at all. But for you their stance might be of some interest, assuming you can read it - otherwise bad for you.

so it says the same as the devblog says?

you know, the devblog that says multiboxing software, used to mutlibox, is fine.


no it says clearly that distributing input across multiple clients is considered as automation, whats a correct attitude.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#225 - 2014-01-01 17:50:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Robert Caldera wrote:
it is indeed a form of automation, even confirmed by CCP.
More importantly, it does not break the EULA, as confirmed by CCP.

Quote:
but still, both are violations of EULA.
No, only one is: botting software. Multiboxing software, on the other hand, is allowed.

Quote:
no but some parts of them are. How does this linked statement contradict or neutralize the one I linked?
By stating that multiboxing software does not inherently break the EULA. And there is no “some parts of them are” about it.

Quote:
I gave you a reference to a GM post which says the opposite.
And I trust the Lead GM and a half-a-decade policy that has never changed over a GM who's contradicting stated and existing policy (possibly due to language barrier complications) and who's simply saying things that are provably false.

Quote:
Its automating/broadcasting inputs which is not covered by term "multiboxing" and is violation of EULA.
Nope. Never was and still isn't, because it's not automation — just replication. Multiboxing, with or without tools, is and always has been allowed. The only one talking about “multiboxing itself” is you. Everyone else is talking about multiboxing software and its looooong uninterrupted history of being allowed.

You can stomp your feet all you like (and claim that you don't) about how this has somehow changed, when the replication/automation distinction is a long-established fact, along with the consequence that isboxer does not breach any part of the EULA.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#226 - 2014-01-01 17:56:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Tippia wrote:
More importantly, it does not break the EULA, as confirmed by CCP.

they clearly stated input ditribution is considered as automation. what else do you need?
Do you have a newer statement saying it is not? Go ahead and link it here.

Tippia wrote:
No, only one is: botting software. Multiboxing software, on the other hand, is allowed.

bots are illegal.
input broadcasting is illegal. per CCP statement. and because it is what it is, a horde of copycat bots under your control.

Tippia wrote:
By stating that multiboxing software does not inherently break the EULA. And there is no “some parts of them are” about it.

no multiboxing software isnt illegal per SE, but input broadcasting is, whatever tool you use for it.

Tippia wrote:
And I trust the Lead GM and a half-a-decade policy that has never changed over a GM who's contradicting stated and existing policy (possibly due to language barrier complications) and who's simply saying things that are provably false.


apart of the fact that said Lead GM said nothing about input broadcasting at all specifically, which is this thread about.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#227 - 2014-01-01 18:01:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Robert Caldera wrote:
they clearly stated input ditribution is considered as automation. what else do you need?
The Lead GM and/or security guys saying that they've changed their policy to match what some confused GM claims.

Tippia wrote:
input broadcasting is illegal. per CCP statement.
Multiboxing software is legal, per Lead GM statements.

Tippia wrote:
no multiboxing software isnt illegal per SE, but input broadcasting
…has been allowed for many many years (irrespective of the tools or mechanics used to do so), and no program using it has ever been deemed as a breach of the EULA, per (numerous) Lead GM statements.

Tippia wrote:
apart of the fact that said Lead GM said nothing about input broadcasting at all specifically
…except stating on numerous occasions that examples of this happening does not break the EULA.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#228 - 2014-01-01 18:03:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Tippia wrote:
The Lead GM and/or security guys saying that they've changed their policy to match what some confused GM claims.

any link available?

Tippia wrote:
Multiboxing software is legal, per Lead GM statements.
yes, as long as you dont use it for what we discuss here.

Tippia wrote:
…has been allowed for many many years, and no program using it has ever been deemed as a breach of the EULA, per (numerous) Lead GM statements.

No, because its a cool tool to nicely manage your clients on desktop, this is why its allowed. Any statement about input broadcast being fine you can link here?

Tippia wrote:
…except stating on numerous occasions that examples of this happening does not break the EULA.

where? Link it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#229 - 2014-01-01 18:16:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Robert Caldera wrote:
any link available?
That would be for you to find to prove your point. Of course, since the Lead GM has never made any statement to the effect of them changing their policy here, no such link exists. So the poor confused GM remains a poor confused GM and the Lead GM's official policy statements trump that.

Quote:
yes, as long as you dont use it for what we discuss here.
As long as you don't automate anything, which multiboxing programs don't — that's what separates them from bots.

Quote:
I gave you a link, do you have anything to back up your claims?
All the links have been provided numerous times.

Quote:
where? Link it.
Again, nothing about the use of isboxer is considered against the rules, and the inputs are not automated (and no, input broadcasting does not count as automation). That was three years ago. Since then, the policy has not changed, nor is is subject to change. This was later clarified in the dev blog and GM statement you are familiar with that explicitly do not issue the kind of blanket ban against multiboxing software you incorrectly believe exist.

So again, try as you might, history will not change in this regard. These programs have been allowed for a very long time — input replication and all. If they did break the EULA, they wouldn't be and we'd know it. The poor confused GM thinking that they aren't and haven't been for a long time just indicates that the poor confused GM is not just confused, but provably wrong.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#230 - 2014-01-01 18:35:27 UTC
well ok but this thread and countless others request whats totally justified in nature of things being automated by tools like isboxer.
Necromendes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#231 - 2014-01-01 18:37:06 UTC
[img]http://s25.postimage.org/vndf7gdyj/Desktop_Capture_01_02_2014_2_22_14.png[/img]

Found an example of how these Isoboxer operates. Saw them cleaning up 2 Ice Spawn in 1.5 hrs.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#232 - 2014-01-01 18:37:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Robert Caldera wrote:
well ok but this thread and countless others request whats totally justified in nature of things being automated by tools like isboxer.

…except that isboxer does not automate anything, and that any botting tool you tie into the multiboxing software is already disallowed irrespective of the multiboxing.

So the requested policy is already in effect and has been for… oh… pretty much the entire lifetime of the game.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#233 - 2014-01-01 18:41:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
well ok but this thread and countless others request whats totally justified in nature of things being automated by tools like isboxer.

…except that isboxer does not automate anything, and that any botting tool you tie into the multiboxing software is already disallowed irrespective of the multiboxing.

So the requested policy is already in effect and has been for… oh… pretty much the entire lifetime of the game.

isboxer even comes recommended by skymarshal lyris nairn

who is going to start ice mining, or so i hear

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#234 - 2014-01-01 19:04:10 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
well ok but this thread and countless others request whats totally justified in nature of things being automated by tools like isboxer.

…except that isboxer does not automate anything, and that any botting tool you tie into the multiboxing software is already disallowed irrespective of the multiboxing.

So the requested policy is already in effect and has been for… oh… pretty much the entire lifetime of the game.

isboxer even comes recommended by skymarshal lyris nairn

who is going to start ice mining, or so i hear
Pics or it didn't happen.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#235 - 2014-01-01 19:07:09 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
well ok but this thread and countless others request whats totally justified in nature of things being automated by tools like isboxer.

…except that isboxer does not automate anything, and that any botting tool you tie into the multiboxing software is already disallowed irrespective of the multiboxing.

So the requested policy is already in effect and has been for… oh… pretty much the entire lifetime of the game.

isboxer even comes recommended by skymarshal lyris nairn

who is going to start ice mining, or so i hear
Pics or it didn't happen.

Actually, Lyris was using isboxer to mine ice after the fountain war.

(I don't actually use isboxer for my ice mining, so I don't know how good it is)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#236 - 2014-01-01 19:12:26 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

isboxer even comes recommended by skymarshal lyris nairn

who is going to start ice mining, or so i hear
Pics or it didn't happen.

Actually, Lyris was using isboxer to mine ice after the fountain war.

(I don't actually use isboxer for my ice mining, so I don't know how good it is)
Oh dear, she does actually mine ice. I am, undone. Sad

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#237 - 2014-01-01 19:14:41 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

isboxer even comes recommended by skymarshal lyris nairn

who is going to start ice mining, or so i hear
Pics or it didn't happen.

Actually, Lyris was using isboxer to mine ice after the fountain war.

(I don't actually use isboxer for my ice mining, so I don't know how good it is)
Oh dear, she does actually mine ice. I am, undone. Sad

Yeah, Lyris is going to start ice mining and siege fleeting in the near future. No ice rock or hostile structure will survive...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2014-01-01 19:17:10 UTC
Isboxer stole our women and took out jobs.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
#239 - 2014-01-01 19:19:47 UTC
Quit whining and go do something else.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#240 - 2014-01-01 19:19:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
well ok but this thread and countless others request whats totally justified in nature of things being automated by tools like isboxer.

…except that isboxer does not automate anything, and that any botting tool you tie into the multiboxing software is already disallowed irrespective of the multiboxing.

So the requested policy is already in effect and has been for… oh… pretty much the entire lifetime of the game.



it does very well, beoadcasting input and so creating copycat bots is a simple form of automation