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Petition to Ban Isobox/Vec, bots and other similar program

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Necromendes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-01-01 10:05:19 UTC
Wish to call for a Petition to Ban all Isobox, Vec, bots and other similar programs players uses for mining.

With the new Ice anomaly, it becomes nearly impossible for other players to mine ice, especially in high sec. The recent change in the Ice anomaly makes it benefitial for players using Isobox, vec and bots. Asteroid field, usually empty after DT in a few hours in high sec.

Affected players:

1) New Players
2) Players without isobox/Vec
3)Players of different time zone unable to mine after DT since ore and ice are empty within hours after DT
4) Full high sec time miners

These mining bots or whatever they wish to consider themselves who never pay physical cash but plex all their accounts, there are players who pay and are affected.
Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services
CAStabouts
#2 - 2014-01-01 10:17:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Snagletooth Johnson
Necromendes wrote:
These mining bots or whatever they wish to consider themselves who never pay physical cash but plex all their accounts, there are players who pay and are affected.


This right here is why it'll never happen. While the 50 man ice bot fleeter doesnt pay cash, but in game plex, someone payed for that plex out of game. truth is, botters make CCP money.

A lot of money

Remove botters, and they will just cancel that 50 bot mining fleet rather then sub them. Nobody can manually mine 50 accounts. Thats 50 plex not being bought in game, that 50 plex not being bought out game to be sold in game...50 plex not being bought, with no sub to replace it...that's a loss.
Amateratsu
The Pegasus Project
#3 - 2014-01-01 10:21:50 UTC
Flogging the dead horse

Prepare for a flame war

IB4L
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2014-01-01 10:23:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Necromendes wrote:
Affected players:

1) New Players
2) Players without isobox/Vec
3)Players of different time zone unable to mine after DT since ore and ice are empty within hours after DT
4) Full high sec time miners

New players don't really mine ice — the skill requirements to make it work effectively are too high.
Players without isboxer/vec are no more affected than those who do use those programs — an empty belt or anomaly is an empty belt or anomaly, and the supposed problem here is that the belts become empty.
These multibox fleets are full time miners, so the same applies here: an empty belt/anomaly is an empty belt/anomaly.

That only leaves the TZ difference (assuming it's even accurate that every belt in highsec runs out so quickly…). Well, that's pretty much to be expected from something that is intentionally designed to be a limited resource: they're meant to run out every day.

Quote:
These mining bots or whatever they wish to consider themselves who never pay physical cash but plex all their accounts, there are players who pay and are affected.
…and removing these active accounts means other players who pay are affected. It also means CCP earns less money, since PLEXed accounts are a better (if riskier) income source than a standard subscriptions.
Dave stark
#5 - 2014-01-01 10:23:52 UTC
Necromendes wrote:
Affected players:

1) New Players
2) Players without isobox/Vec
3)Players of different time zone unable to mine after DT since ore and ice are empty within hours after DT
4) Full high sec time miners


1) wrong.
2) wrong.
3) wrong.
4) wrong.
Necromendes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-01-01 10:26:40 UTC
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
Necromendes wrote:
These mining bots or whatever they wish to consider themselves who never pay physical cash but plex all their accounts, there are players who pay and are affected.


This right here is why it'll never happen. While the 50 man ice bot fleeter doesnt pay cash, but in game plex, someone payed for that plex out of game. truth is, botters make CCP money.

remove botters, and they will just cancel that 50 bot minining fleet then sub them. thats 50 plex not being bought in game, that 50 plex not being bought out game to be sold in game...50 plex not being bought, with no new sub to replace it...that's a loss.



Actually, you could be wrong. If the 50 bot mining didn't purchase the plex, it will still be divided to 50 other players who usually unable to purchase the plex due to insane bot activities. Someone else will still purchase the Plex rather than concentrated to a single player. Either 50 players pay for plex or just 1 player pay for Plex, which is the fundamental here. Having bots will not increase Plex sales as it limited the economical capability of other miners to purchase Plex. Moreover, Plex purchase by bots are schedule to be spent over a long period of time not short term, again this provide fake assumption of the Plex.

Bots, Isobox and other similar program has been around Eve for sometime and it has now came to a point it is damaging to other players and the game itself.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#7 - 2014-01-01 10:29:53 UTC
Necromendes wrote:
If the 50 bot mining didn't purchase the plex, it will still be divided to 50 other players who usually unable to purchase the plex due to insane bot activities. Someone else will still purchase the Plex rather than concentrated to a single player.
…except that the demand would be much lower so there would be less reason to do so and/or the stockpiles would just pointlessly build up.

Either way, these are still payed-for accounts you're talking about, and you're still asking them to reduce the number of such accounts. No matter how you cut it, that means less income for CCP.
Necromendes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-01-01 10:31:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Necromendes wrote:
Affected players:

1) New Players
2) Players without isobox/Vec
3)Players of different time zone unable to mine after DT since ore and ice are empty within hours after DT
4) Full high sec time miners

New players don't really mine ice — the skill requirements to make it work effectively are too high.
Players without isboxer/vec are no more affected than those who do use those programs — an empty belt or anomaly is an empty belt or anomaly, and the supposed problem here is that the belts become empty.
These multibox fleets are full time miners, so the same applies here: an empty belt/anomaly is an empty belt/anomaly.

That only leaves the TZ difference (assuming it's even accurate that every belt in highsec runs out so quickly…). Well, that's pretty much to be expected from something that is intentionally designed to be a limited resource: they're meant to run out every day.

Quote:
These mining bots or whatever they wish to consider themselves who never pay physical cash but plex all their accounts, there are players who pay and are affected.
…and removing these active accounts means other players who pay are affected. It also means CCP earns less money, since PLEXed accounts are a better (if riskier) income source than a standard subscriptions.


If the belts are gone due to regular mining or fleet mining, that can't be argue as there are several players involve. However, belts and ice are clear with 60-80 ships but actual maybe 10-15 players. Fact remains these are external program . Using external program is against EULA, so why is it allow? Can CCP guarantee that other players ignorance of EULA will be treated same way as External Program users? Which is to ignore the activities.
Dave stark
#9 - 2014-01-01 10:32:06 UTC
Necromendes wrote:
Asteroid field, usually empty after DT in a few hours in high sec.

Look harder.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#10 - 2014-01-01 10:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
You do know that CCP ban botters, right?

Also, why would people use sound proof boxes to mine?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services
CAStabouts
#11 - 2014-01-01 10:33:56 UTC
Necromendes wrote:
Actually, you could be wrong. If the 50 bot mining didn't purchase the plex, it will still be divided to 50 other players who usually unable to purchase the plex due to insane bot activities. Someone else will still purchase the Plex rather than concentrated to a single player. Either 50 players pay for plex or just 1 player pay for Plex, which is the fundamental here. Having bots will not increase Plex sales as it limited the economical capability of other miners to purchase Plex. Moreover, Plex purchase by bots are schedule to be spent over a long period of time not short term, again this provide fake assumption of the Plex.

Bots, Isobox and other similar program has been around Eve for sometime and it has now came to a point it is damaging to other players and the game itself.


I could be wrong, but Im not.
Plex is not a finite resource. people are not standing in line to purchase it becuase of a shortage. a 50 man botter cancels his accounts, thats 50 plex not being bought. Period. 50 dual account players are not suddenly going to start buying up plex's because a botter quit.
Necromendes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-01-01 10:34:17 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Necromendes wrote:
If the 50 bot mining didn't purchase the plex, it will still be divided to 50 other players who usually unable to purchase the plex due to insane bot activities. Someone else will still purchase the Plex rather than concentrated to a single player.
…except that the demand would be much lower so there would be less reason to do so and/or the stockpiles would just pointlessly build up.

Either way, these are still payed-for accounts you're talking about, and you're still asking them to reduce the number of such accounts. No matter how you cut it, that means less income for CCP.



CCP will have to choose to act accordingly to their EULA or forget EULA ever exist. You can't allow parts of EULA to be breach while acting faithfully on other parts of the EULA. CCP must made their stand clear on the topic of external program.
Dave stark
#13 - 2014-01-01 10:35:29 UTC
Necromendes wrote:
You can't allow parts of EULA to be breach while acting faithfully on other parts of the EULA.

you can if your buddy runs a gambling site, or something.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#14 - 2014-01-01 10:35:56 UTC
Necromendes wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Necromendes wrote:
If the 50 bot mining didn't purchase the plex, it will still be divided to 50 other players who usually unable to purchase the plex due to insane bot activities. Someone else will still purchase the Plex rather than concentrated to a single player.
…except that the demand would be much lower so there would be less reason to do so and/or the stockpiles would just pointlessly build up.

Either way, these are still payed-for accounts you're talking about, and you're still asking them to reduce the number of such accounts. No matter how you cut it, that means less income for CCP.



CCP will have to choose to act accordingly to their EULA or forget EULA ever exist. You can't allow parts of EULA to be breach while acting faithfully on other parts of the EULA. CCP must made their stand clear on the topic of external program.

What part is being breached? I ask you to read it carefully before replying.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Dave stark
#15 - 2014-01-01 10:37:01 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Necromendes wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Necromendes wrote:
If the 50 bot mining didn't purchase the plex, it will still be divided to 50 other players who usually unable to purchase the plex due to insane bot activities. Someone else will still purchase the Plex rather than concentrated to a single player.
…except that the demand would be much lower so there would be less reason to do so and/or the stockpiles would just pointlessly build up.

Either way, these are still payed-for accounts you're talking about, and you're still asking them to reduce the number of such accounts. No matter how you cut it, that means less income for CCP.



CCP will have to choose to act accordingly to their EULA or forget EULA ever exist. You can't allow parts of EULA to be breach while acting faithfully on other parts of the EULA. CCP must made their stand clear on the topic of external program.

What part is being breached? I ask you to read it carefully before replying.

inb4 quote about "accelerated rates" etc.
Necromendes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-01-01 10:38:18 UTC
Mag's wrote:
You do know that CCP ban botters, right?

Also, why would people use sound proof boxes to mine?


Yes I do know CCP ban botters, although it seem they are not very successful it in. However, CCP has not made it clear on Isobox and Vec. These are external program. EULA does not allow any external program to work with Eve. Too many question on this topic as CCP has never made their message clear and stand on their binding of EULA.
Dave stark
#17 - 2014-01-01 10:40:26 UTC
Necromendes wrote:
However, CCP has not made it clear on Isobox and Vec. These are external program. EULA does not allow any external program to work with Eve. Too many question on this topic as CCP has never made their message clear and stand on their binding of EULA.


they did make it clear; they had a whole goddamn devblog on the subject.
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-01-01 10:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Odithia
Please ban all botters including the isboxer.

I realise they makes ships more affordable but in my opinion they are more a nuisance than an asset to CCP and us players as they are terrible for player retention.
Realizing they can't compete at all and will never be able to turn a lot of guys out of the game.

Otherwise we might as well allow macro and all kind of cheats, hey the cheater are paying their sub after all.



Also please keep banning the jita spammers, they bring nothing to the game.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#19 - 2014-01-01 10:41:24 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Necromendes wrote:
However, CCP has not made it clear on Isobox and Vec. These are external program. EULA does not allow any external program to work with Eve. Too many question on this topic as CCP has never made their message clear and stand on their binding of EULA.


they did make it clear; they had a whole goddamn devblog on the subject.

I have a feeling reading is hard. As is knowing the name of things.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#20 - 2014-01-01 10:42:20 UTC
Odithia wrote:
Please ban all botters.

I realise they makes ships more affordable but in my opinion they are more a nuisance than an asset to CCP and us players as they are terrible for player retention.
Realizing they can't compete at all and will never be able to turn a lot of guys out of the game.

Otherwise we might as well allow macro and all kind of cheats, hey the cheater are paying their sub after all.



Also please keep banning the jita spammers, they bring nothing to the game.
They do ban botters, so I do not see your point.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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