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X ATM092 - Mistakes were made in a contract, he's refusing to make good.

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Infinite Force
#1 - 2013-12-31 19:35:51 UTC
http://evewho.com/pilot/X%20ATM092

I've been selling compressed items to X ATM092 for a long time now.

Recently I was contracting him a set of compressed items, but due to the limit on contracted and stacked minerals there was a mistake made in the contract. (Basically the game cannot handle more then 2.1b in "items" like trit in a contract, which is something i didnt run into before now...... thanks CCP!)

In short, X ATM092 received 13,805 in 425mm guns but only "paid" for 7,805 of them in minerals.

I've had a long history with him and once i realized what happened i contacted him about the issue.

His response was basically too bad.

http://i.imgur.com/hTzHmEf.png

EVE is EVE and due to game mechanics a mistake was made..... but dont trust this guy anymore sadly.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#2 - 2013-12-31 20:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: X ATM092
I am happy to confirm here what happened. Mr Infinite Force contacted me offering to give me a load of compressed minerals in exchange for minerals and isk. I said that sounded good. He then made a contract to me. After double checking, triple checking, paying someone else to download eve isk per hour and quadruple check on my behalf it I could not get the minerals to add up, it appeared he had asked for too few. I then accepted the contract.

Mr Infinite Force feels he has been somehow scammed by this contract he made and sent to me and would like me to send him isk. I, on the other hand, feel he should take more care in future when making contracts. While I appreciate his loss and how upset he must be over it I do not see why I should sacrifice my gain in order to correct his error, especially after how much trouble the numbers being wrong caused me.

Note that this was not a build order that I commissioned from him. In fact I have not commissed any work from Mr Force since he sent me this mail on the 6th of December cancelling a commission I had ordered.

"From: Infinite Force
Sent: 2013.12.06 05:19
To: X ATM092,

Hey X

I'm sorry to have to bring this up, but due to time contraints with more orders in-game and also in life, hauling back and forth to Jita has become too much of a burden.

Is there anyway you can contact Red Frog or PUSHX and setup delivery to Itamo for the minerals?  Else I am afraid you will have to find a new supplier."

Furthermore I am certainly not a regular client of his, nor do we have any long standing arrangement. He has not been selling me compressed items for a long time, that part is totally fictional. He has only ever completed one job for me which was two months ago. This incident was started when he offered me the items out of the blue and then created the contract without talking to me beyond me saying that it sounded good.

Also Crime and Punishment is that way.
Bachari Tanner
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-12-31 21:11:11 UTC
So X. Your tl;dr is yes, you knowingly screwed this guy over and thus should not be trusted. Good to know. Thanks.
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#4 - 2013-12-31 21:21:56 UTC  |  Edited by: X ATM092
Bachari Tanner wrote:
So X. Your tl;dr is yes, you knowingly screwed this guy over and thus should not be trusted. Good to know. Thanks.

He made the contract, not me. I'm not screwing anyone over any more than whenever I choose not to give a guy a lot of isk . He wants me to give him isk and get nothing in return, if you think he deserves the isk that much I suggest you give it to him. Having the capability to give something away and choosing not to is not an active act of screwing someone over.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#5 - 2013-12-31 21:48:01 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
due to game mechanics a mistake was made


Roll

Free 3rd party services

Buddy link w/ bonus 250k SP, you keep the whole PLEX upon subscribing
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#6 - 2013-12-31 22:17:32 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Infinite Force wrote:
due to game mechanics a mistake was made


Roll

He was light on every mineral he asked for, not just trit. The game mechanic story doesn't make any sense because he wasn't asking for 2b zydrine etc. He must have added up what he was contracting me wrong because he was missing some of all of them.
Kate 'on
DevonCorp
#7 - 2013-12-31 22:31:07 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
http://evewho.com/pilot/X%20ATM092

I've been selling compressed items to X ATM092 for a long time now.

Recently I was contracting him a set of compressed items, but due to the limit on contracted and stacked minerals there was a mistake made in the contract. (Basically the game cannot handle more then 2.1b in "items" like trit in a contract, which is something i didnt run into before now...... thanks CCP!)

In short, X ATM092 received 13,805 in 425mm guns but only "paid" for 7,805 of them in minerals.

I've had a long history with him and once i realized what happened i contacted him about the issue.

His response was basically too bad.

http://i.imgur.com/hTzHmEf.png

EVE is EVE and due to game mechanics a mistake was made..... but dont trust this guy anymore sadly.


So if I understand, you're asking for someone to pay for your mistakes... in Eve.

Good luck with that
Bachari Tanner
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-12-31 22:53:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Bachari Tanner
X ATM092 wrote:
Bachari Tanner wrote:
So X. Your tl;dr is yes, you knowingly screwed this guy over and thus should not be trusted. Good to know. Thanks.

He made the contract, not me. I'm not screwing anyone over any more than whenever I choose not to give a guy a lot of isk . He wants me to give him isk and get nothing in return, if you think he deserves the isk that much I suggest you give it to him. Having the capability to give something away and choosing not to is not an active act of screwing someone over.

Put it any way you like. Whatever way you roll it you knew it was a mistake and rather than point that out, you simply took it. That makes you a bad person to trust. Not saying it wasn't a good way to go, not even saying i wouldn't have done the same, but it doesn't speak well of you for people potentially looking to trust you.
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#9 - 2013-12-31 23:00:45 UTC
He was not placing any trust in me. This was not a trust based agreement, this was a contract doing a straight switch between his stuff and my stuff that he made. I generally try and avoid trust based situations to avoid exactly this drama, I insist upon collateral, third parties and contracts. No trust was involved.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#10 - 2013-12-31 23:11:05 UTC
So if I get this right, Infinite Force made a contract to you. When it asked him "are you sure you want to make this contract" he said "yes" and now he says that he did not actually want to make that contract.

Clearly, contracts should require you to click yes in triplicate instead of twice, and maybe also require entering your account password and email address before they are created. Maybe also a mandatory 24h waiting period on all contracts, and a GM review committee that must approve them.
Bertrand Prout
Sunday Sessions
#11 - 2013-12-31 23:21:19 UTC
That sucks since that is not really mentioned anywhere but tbh, I'm surprised you didn't know about the hard limit that is 2147483647 (2^32-1). A titan needs more than that in trit so at some point it should have been obvious.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#12 - 2013-12-31 23:23:00 UTC
Bertrand Prout wrote:
That sucks since that is not really mentioned anywhere but tbh, I'm surprised you didn't know about the hard limit that is 2147483647 (2^32-1). A titan needs more than that in trit so at some point it should have been obvious.


And what of every other mineral?
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#13 - 2013-12-31 23:23:30 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
So if I get this right, Infinite Force made a contract to you. When it asked him "are you sure you want to make this contract" he said "yes" and now he says that he did not actually want to make that contract.

Clearly, contracts should require you to click yes in triplicate instead of twice, and maybe also require entering your account password and email address before they are created. Maybe also a mandatory 24h waiting period on all contracts, and a GM review committee that must approve them.

This is the only reasonable solution to this problem.
Bertrand Prout
Sunday Sessions
#14 - 2013-12-31 23:26:37 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Bertrand Prout wrote:
That sucks since that is not really mentioned anywhere but tbh, I'm surprised you didn't know about the hard limit that is 2147483647 (2^32-1). A titan needs more than that in trit so at some point it should have been obvious.


And what of every other mineral?

I'll let you look into that.
okoolos rimmer
Napkin Nation
#15 - 2013-12-31 23:38:38 UTC  |  Edited by: okoolos rimmer
I feel for you but X_Atm not paying back for your mistake might not make him a "nice" person but it doesn't make him a scammer either.

And why would anyone trust X_Atm anyways? he's not a third party.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#16 - 2013-12-31 23:43:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Meh, this is definitely the OP's problem. It's no different IRL. Someone posts a Sale sign on the window and I buy it, then they try to retract the price.

No sorry, you are the one with the SALE sign, you are obligated to follow through. Once a merchant sticks a price on an item, they are obligated to sell for that amount or less.I dunno about other countries, but it's a no-win fight for the merchant. If they try to pull the "It was a mistake routine." I raise hell.

I got a nice $500 quilt for $50 because someone put an "All quilts $50" sign on the stand with my quilt. I've walked away with some nice deals because someone was an idiot.

Don't feel bad for them. Lots of studies have shown that customers are routinely ripped off when they go to the register during a sale and get charged MSRP.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#17 - 2013-12-31 23:56:42 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:

No sorry, you are the one with the SALE sign, you are obligated to follow through. Once a merchant sticks a price on an item, they are obligated to sell for that amount or less.I dunno about other countries, but it's a no-win fight for the merchant. If they try to pull the "It was a mistake routine." I raise hell.


Its not even that, the purchase already happened, and as xatm092 walks out of the store the manager runs up to him to retract the sale.
Infinite Force
#18 - 2013-12-31 23:57:26 UTC
to clarify why all the minerals were light, its because of the 2.1b item limit i went back and re-adjusted the minerals thinking i made a mistake in the original numbers. I triple checked this issue but it slipped past me.

when i inputed the original amount, CCP's glitch/char limit automagically changed it back to the max number (from 3.4 to 2.1b)

X ATM knew this, willingly took advantage of the situation and congratulations he got a free 12b isk

(assuming CCP doesnt honor the petition, considering the 2.1b item stack limit is by all accounts a "hidden" feature and doesnt occur any sort of message when you hit it)

For now the only recourse I have is to put into the light my mistake, X ATM's dishonesty and soil his good name. An expensive lesson but oh well

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#19 - 2014-01-01 00:11:06 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
to clarify why all the minerals were light, its because of the 2.1b item limit i went back and re-adjusted the minerals thinking i made a mistake in the original numbers. I triple checked this issue but it slipped past me.

when i inputed the original amount, CCP's glitch/char limit automagically changed it back to the max number (from 3.4 to 2.1b)

X ATM knew this, willingly took advantage of the situation and congratulations he got a free 12b isk

(assuming CCP doesnt honor the petition, considering the 2.1b item stack limit is by all accounts a "hidden" feature and doesnt occur any sort of message when you hit it)

For now the only recourse I have is to put into the light my mistake, X ATM's dishonesty and soil his good name. An expensive lesson but oh well


And just for fun you went and changed the other minerals as well?
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#20 - 2014-01-01 00:15:06 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
to clarify why all the minerals were light, its because of the 2.1b item limit i went back and re-adjusted the minerals thinking i made a mistake in the original numbers. I triple checked this issue but it slipped past me.

when i inputed the original amount, CCP's glitch/char limit automagically changed it back to the max number (from 3.4 to 2.1b)

X ATM knew this, willingly took advantage of the situation and congratulations he got a free 12b isk

(assuming CCP doesnt honor the petition, considering the 2.1b item stack limit is by all accounts a "hidden" feature and doesnt occur any sort of message when you hit it)

For now the only recourse I have is to put into the light my mistake, X ATM's dishonesty and soil his good name. An expensive lesson but oh well

So you manually adjusted the contract to have fewer minerals than it should have had and now you're petitioning it because this makes me somehow dishonest?
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