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Drone Assist: Kill It With Fire

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Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#41 - 2014-01-01 23:11:09 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
I really don't get the drone assist tears, sentries are cruiser-sized targets doing t1 damage for t2 training time... a cursory glance at the eve-wiki says tracking on them is pretty rubbish too (compared to BS weapons).

Yes they scale particularly well... but that's about all they have going for them. What am I missing here guys?



A full fleet of them all hitting the same target at exactly the same time, with none of the variances you get with any other weapon system.


i see no differance between drone assist and those ISBoxxer people. nerf/remove drone assist? SURE! but only if ISboxxer gets blammed too

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#42 - 2014-01-01 23:14:45 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I would love to see drone assist go away.


Drone assist is nothing but ISBoxxer in another texture.. except drone assist is an actual in-game mechanic.. ISBoxxer isnt.

get rid of ISBoxxer and itll lower the amount of sentry drone assisters

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2014-01-01 23:31:45 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
I really don't get the drone assist tears, sentries are cruiser-sized targets doing t1 damage for t2 training time... a cursory glance at the eve-wiki says tracking on them is pretty rubbish too (compared to BS weapons).

Yes they scale particularly well... but that's about all they have going for them. What am I missing here guys?



A full fleet of them all hitting the same target at exactly the same time, with none of the variances you get with any other weapon system.


i see no differance between drone assist and those ISBoxxer people. nerf/remove drone assist? SURE! but only if ISboxxer gets blammed too



ISboxer is one guy running a gatecamp at best. It's not two hundred guys running a fleet of carriers, all hitting the same target at exactly the same time with no deviation whatsoever.

Perhaps you should try fighting against (or with) one before you make stupid comments?
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#44 - 2014-01-02 00:45:57 UTC
Can't say I've dealt much with assisted drones, but I can see how it'd be a problem.

Drones simply need an overhaul in general. To all appearances drones are rather terrible at many things they were intended to do, and great at doing things they were never intended for.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#45 - 2014-01-02 00:46:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Sentamon wrote:
The 99% of EVE that doesn't Blob each other once a month doesn't care about your drone assist issue, as a matter of fact we like and need drone assist.


no, we don't. Its always been broken in PVP (before slowcats were a thing), and in PVE, its a minor convenience for people that can't be bothered to press a second button or hold two targets in their head. Its also nice when dualboxing but far from important.


Seranova Farreach wrote:

get rid of ISBoxxer and itll lower the amount of sentry drone assisters


Clueless much? drone assist in PVE isn't what people are complaining about.

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Never forget.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-01-02 08:17:11 UTC
The mechanic of dron assist is overpowered. The only ships that should be capable of assigning drones to another player are carriers.
Gigan Amilupar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2014-01-02 08:40:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Gigan Amilupar
Quinn Corvez wrote:
The mechanic of dron assist is overpowered. The only ships that should be capable of assigning drones to another player are carriers.


That does nothing to the current use of sentry carrier blobs (which is by and large what people are complaining about). The matter that really needs to be discussed is whether or not the ability to assign drones to a single controller has merit, and whether or not its merits are more valuable then its drawbacks.

On one hand, I rather like the ability for a fleet to coordinate drones through one or more players to increase the efficiency of drone use. On the other hand, the ability to alpha targets with no deviation definitely puts drones above average in regards to fleet combat. Mechanic wise it is clearly superior in many scenarios to more traditional alpha fleets. These points mean that drone assist provides some good use in terms of fleet control, but only does so by being an inherently overpowered mechanic.

All in all I feel like drone assist is a patchwork solution for bad UI. I think that if CCP did their rework of the drone UI and provided more tools for control and THEN removed drone assist the people who hate drone assist would be happy, and the people who use drone assist wouldn't be as inclined to complain since they would be gaining a platform by which they could more adequately keep track of and control their drones (which would, presumably, allow for their continued use in fleet warfare as an active weapon system).

TL;DR Remove drone assist, but fix the drone UI when you do it.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2014-01-02 09:09:31 UTC
There are common mech that can be dodged with drone assists, mostly concerning ship electronics and EWar (which I don't really like, but whatever). What's funny is that people complain mostly about drone assist as interface feature.

Apparently even with 10 years of practice drone assists is the only way people can "press F1" simultaneously even when it's crucial.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#49 - 2014-01-02 09:13:59 UTC
drone assist is fine.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2014-01-02 11:23:27 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
There are reasons to assist besides alpha and not needing to lock targets. Namely, bouncing drones to decloak people and getting drones into fighting range in a slow ship. You don't seem to have anything bad to say about anything that isn't a sentry. Removing things entirely and large unstepped nerfs are why the missiles you love so much are so weak.

I'm not entirely sure how you address and separate the issues with sentry drones - especially since CCP has made them a focal point of the SoE ships. A starting point might be asking why non-battleship hulls can even field sentry drones in the first place? Another might as be why fighters and fighter-bombers suck compared to sentry drones? If we're going to talk about non-drone assist elimination changes, this would be my short list:

1. Drone assist is limited to the receiving player's skill, ie: max 5 (same as fighters).
2. Restrict sentry drones to cruiser (or higher) hulls.
3. Buff fighters and fighter-bombers with drone skills.


I've seen several of your posts on different issues and it's all the same: radical changes with no afterthought... Because of people like you many things got nerfed to oblivion. You cry about thing you don't like and demand a change that will affect many things you have no idea about. Like HiddenPorpoise said drone assist is a good mechanics for most uses, and it's only OP when it comes to sentries. So it's logical to make a change to sentries not to assist mechanic.

To the point: drone assist is ridiculously overpowered when using sentry drones. Otherwise it’s fine. Consider changes with that in mind. Unless of course you are planning a buff to other drone types, coz right now except sentries they are not a preferred weapon system.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-01-02 11:32:27 UTC
Gigan Amilupar wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
The mechanic of dron assist is overpowered. The only ships that should be capable of assigning drones to another player are carriers.


That does nothing to the current use of sentry carrier blobs (which is by and large what people are complaining about). The matter that really needs to be discussed is whether or not the ability to assign drones to a single controller has merit, and whether or not its merits are more valuable then its drawbacks.

On one hand, I rather like the ability for a fleet to coordinate drones through one or more players to increase the efficiency of drone use. On the other hand, the ability to alpha targets with no deviation definitely puts drones above average in regards to fleet combat. Mechanic wise it is clearly superior in many scenarios to more traditional alpha fleets. These points mean that drone assist provides some good use in terms of fleet control, but only does so by being an inherently overpowered mechanic.

All in all I feel like drone assist is a patchwork solution for bad UI. I think that if CCP did their rework of the drone UI and provided more tools for control and THEN removed drone assist the people who hate drone assist would be happy, and the people who use drone assist wouldn't be as inclined to complain since they would be gaining a platform by which they could more adequately keep track of and control their drones (which would, presumably, allow for their continued use in fleet warfare as an active weapon system).

TL;DR Remove drone assist, but fix the drone UI when you do it.


Or this.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-01-02 13:36:44 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
The 1% of EVE that doesn't Blob each other once a month doesn't care about your drone assist issue, as a matter of fact we like and need drone assist. The other 99% who does Blob each other once a month also likes and needs drone assist.

Fixed it for you.

Fixed it for you both.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#53 - 2014-01-02 17:48:17 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
The 1% of EVE that doesn't Blob each other once a month doesn't care about your drone assist issue, as a matter of fact we like and need drone assist. The other 99% who does Blob each other once a month also likes and needs drone assist.

Fixed it for you.

Fixed it for you both.


so what drone assist needs is an upper limit so that people who use it on a small scale can use it normally whilst the null blobs cant etc. I am not really sympathetic to this though as we're only seeing threads like this in the wake of a battle the goons couldn't win and rather than suck it up like men decided to deliberately crash the node.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-01-02 23:59:38 UTC
What is this animosity toward large-scale drone assist and what does it have to do with node-slowing? Next you're going to blame a slow node on time dilation.

If you want the nodes to slow less from drones, then what you want is less drones per pilot. Drone assist has as little to do with it as time dilation, in that both actually decrease the server load.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#55 - 2014-01-03 00:28:35 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
The 99% of EVE that doesn't Blob each other once a month doesn't care about your drone assist issue, as a matter of fact we like and need drone assist.


second that. rise admited that the majority of eve players dont do pvp.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2014-01-03 00:57:39 UTC
I like the fact that drones can be assisted because in small gangs its one way to overcome ECM which is a nice balance and gives some interesting dynamics to drone ships which for so long have been fairly meh in PvP.

The overall complaint seems to be based around mostly Ishtars/carriers and sentries. But you know, if its not one thing its another like the old drake blob or the big alpha arty gangs. I think the carrier issue needs to be looked at separately from all the sub cap issues here.

I think the Vexor/Navy Vexor/Ishtar are all finally in a great place and for once give Gallente a cool option for fleets. I would be sad to see the nerf bat come down on them after finally getting them worth flying. I'm still seeing lots of other fleet comps out there and Ishtar gangs don't seem to be blotting out the sky, so I would say they are probably fine.

I think at the end of the day the biggest problem is the archon which simply does everything too well for cap warfare. Its tanks, uses sentries, awesome cap, etc making it heads and tails above the rest. At the end of the day, if drone assist went away would any of that really change? The alpha of sentries may not be delivered with perfect volley like it does now but with everyone following primary calls it really wouldn't be much different from the old arty fleets? So does getting rid of drone assist really deal with your complaint? Or is the complaint really lie in the fact that you only want drakes, falcons, and arty dominating space?

As I see it the issue of balance is all moving in the right direction and we don't need to get rid of cool features like drone assist and make EVE more vanilla. I think the balance problem lies perhaps in a different area, your just focusing on the assisting part. No one complained in the past when you assisted a bunch of warriors to an inty right? But now all of a sudden everyone is complaining. Thus the problem lies else where. Maybe its just in building counters, like bomber wings dedicated to taking out sentries in big fleet battles or something. Not sure what the answer is, but frankly I haven't really noticed the problem thus far and enjoy fighting Ishtars, its quite the challenge but not insurmountable.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-01-03 01:19:01 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
the majority of eve playerscharacters dont do pvp.

ftfy

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#58 - 2014-01-03 01:30:37 UTC
I'm enjoying the drone discussion in the general thread about the drone mission "exploit". I imagine this also holds true for assisted drones, but that would just be my guess at this point. As I've previously stated, if we were to remove the prospect of its elimination from the table - then I think a control limit based on the lendee's drone skill is in order (max 5).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Faltzs
Thundercats
The Initiative.
#59 - 2014-01-03 01:38:31 UTC
Drone assist is just a silly mechanic for years players have been limted to 5 drones now with one click they get 1250 drones. On top of this is not skill related and removed player interaction from the game.

Ishtars ability to both easily shield and armour tank at the same is complete unbalanced compared to any other heavy assault cruiser while doing anywhere from 400-700dps from its sentries depending on fit. but that a whole other thread. The carrier / super remote rep blob is another issue. Back to drones....

Sentry drones range, tracking and rof are also exceptionally strong.

As far as the drone assist mechanics goes it should be:

1) limited to assignment only to your squad,
2) skill dependent,
3) can only be controlled with in your control range.
4) because the skill will cap the user to 50 drones it would mean carrier fleet would need 2 bunnies per squad.

This would still make assigning 50 light drones to kill inties/frigates viable and small gang pvp able counter ecm while reducing the affective in larger scale. I suspect that the raw stats of some sentries may need to be addressed (like why bouncers fire every 4 seconds ? even 425mm rails are 6-7 seconds and 1400mms are 18-20 seconds) but fix drone assist mechanics first.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#60 - 2014-01-03 09:09:59 UTC
Mariner6 wrote:
At the end of the day, if drone assist went away would any of that really change? The alpha of sentries may not be delivered with perfect volley like it does now but with everyone following primary calls it really wouldn't be much different from the old arty fleets?

Archons can't lock to the ranges their drones are shooting that

They're not ewar immune like some trigger ships

They lock slower than some of the other trigger ships used

Not having to worry about boosting your sensor res or target range is pretty sweet, you only need one ship to do that.

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