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The "Bulk Trade" Mailing list * Official Announcement *UPDATED*

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okoolos rimmer
Napkin Nation
#21 - 2013-12-31 23:11:44 UTC
"I am trying to monetize yes , because I think it's a cheap compromise that people need to make to use a mailing list where we try to maintain a high end standing levels to maximize efficiency thus the time spent by the user ( Time is money in eve )"

what are those high end standing levels you speak of?

1) If you are hurting for isk why not just ask for donations? If people value your service they WILL give back.
2) What's stopping you from increasing fees again and again?
3) Shouldn't the buyers be able to view the mailing list for free and sellers pay to post?
4) You mention the ability to track a user's buy/sell history on your new mailing list. That doesn't bode well.
5) If you're a one man operation then joining your mailing list while you're away will be impossible.
6) What guarantee do we have that you won't release/sell our emails once you get "bored" with EVE and decide to go out "with a bang" ?
7) I often see people selling less then 5 items. Will moderation improve now that you will be getting paid for it?
Ramone Ormand
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-01-01 00:18:35 UTC
Ridiculous.

The reason this mailing list is being changed to google plus is because it has/is reaching the 3,000 person limit.

I've seen a lot of defensive comments from W3370Pi4, the majority of them dismissive. However, I just have one question:

What would you do to make roughly 7.5 billion isk every 3 months? 2.5 billion isk every month. Enough isk to PLEX 4 accounts every month with 100 mil pocket change.

Because that is what I do not understand. I am sorry, but in my eyes you are nothing more than a forum moderator. I cannot fathom what it is actually such big of a timesink? Advertisement? That's one forum post with the occasional bump.

Moderation? You see the occasional person who has not layed out their mail right, possibly because they're new, and you ban them. You see the rare scam which may/may not have been pointed out already and you ban them.

I'd ban scammers and bump an advertising thread for 2.5 bil a month passive income.

No, I think you're overstating your position here. You are trying to show that this is a mailing list run by you. That without you it would all fall apart and it's not a community driven thing. I disagree.

You don't want to run the bulk trade mailing list anymore? Find someone that will.

You want isk to run the bulk trade mailing list? We'll find someone that won't.

Ridiculous
W3370Pi4
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-01-01 03:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: W3370Pi4
okoolos rimmer wrote:
"I am trying to monetize yes , because I think it's a cheap compromise that people need to make to use a mailing list where we try to maintain a high end standing levels to maximize efficiency thus the time spent by the user ( Time is money in eve )"

what are those high end standing levels you speak of?

1) If you are hurting for isk why not just ask for donations? If people value your service they WILL give back.
2) What's stopping you from increasing fees again and again?
3) Shouldn't the buyers be able to view the mailing list for free and sellers pay to post?
4) You mention the ability to track a user's buy/sell history on your new mailing list. That doesn't bode well.
5) If you're a one man operation then joining your mailing list while you're away will be impossible.
6) What guarantee do we have that you won't release/sell our emails once you get "bored" with EVE and decide to go out "with a bang" ?
7) I often see people selling less then 5 items. Will moderation improve now that you will be getting paid for it?

1 ) Tried that does not work
2 ) will not no interest why would I ?
3 ) Please elaborate or don't ?
4 ) This is already the case in-game , argument invalid.
5 ) Not the case get proper information
6 ) why would I go trough so much trouble to have isk on an unused account ?
7 ) Actually this will allow me to hire people as opposed to people do this for free this was also a major drawback of the in-game mailing list but not in the current one as emails can be deleted even after they are sent.
Ramone Ormand
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-01-01 03:29:10 UTC
W3370Pi4 wrote:

1 ) Tried that does not work
2 ) will not no interest why would I ?
3 ) Please elaborate or don't ?
4 ) This is already the case in-game , argument invalid.
5 ) Not the case get proper information
6 ) why would I go trough so much trouble to have isk on an unused account ?
7 ) Actually this will allow me to hire people as opposed to people do this for free this was also a major drawback of the in-game mailing list but not in the current one as emails can be deleted even after they are sent.



1) You mean you got too greedy?
2) horrendously worded, dismissive
3) dismissive
4) dismissive
5) dismissive
6) dismissive
7) So you agree that it should be community driven? Then why not make it community driven, instead of hiring people to do the work? People want this mailing list to work and are willing to self moderate, you're just not allowing them.

5 for 7 dismissing rebuttals, come on now. I'm just waiting for the backpedaling to start when you realize that this is going to fail, i'll put you on the reserve for a spot in the backwards tour de france.
W3370Pi4
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-01-01 03:32:35 UTC
Why don't you create a community driven mailing list to show me how its done.
Ramone Ormand
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-01-01 03:56:33 UTC
W3370Pi4 wrote:
Why don't you create a community driven mailing list to show me how its done.


what a juvenile outlook. If people could only critisize and call other people out on things they disagreed on in the real world if they had done the previous thing themselves no body would get anything done.
"You think this television is overpriced? Why don't YOU sell a television at a reasonable price then to show me how it's done?"

I have no interest in running a mailing list, that doesn't mean I can't call you out on this ****.
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#27 - 2014-01-01 03:59:31 UTC
Well, guess I'll have to find another mailing list or bulk trading service. Occasionally tossing a few million ISK to those maintaining a list isn't particularly onerous, but forcing a google account and out of game services which in turn hamper in-game options like contract linking etc is just flat out stupid.

Wholesale Trading, I hope you're up for the task. W, you quite clearly weren't.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
W3370Pi4
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-01-01 04:04:11 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Well, guess I'll have to find another mailing list or bulk trading service. Occasionally tossing a few million ISK to those maintaining a list isn't particularly onerous, but forcing a google account and out of game services which in turn hamper in-game options like contract linking etc is just flat out stupid.

Wholesale Trading, I hope you're up for the task. W, you quite clearly weren't.


You forgot the 3 other mailing list that started yesterday too...
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#29 - 2014-01-01 04:11:45 UTC
Don't worry, those are added too. WT just appealed the most in the forum post.
Of course, all of them surpassed Bulk Trading by staying in-game.

Some of us don't particularly like the taste of Google baby batter.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
#30 - 2014-01-01 07:14:32 UTC
Considering google groups are free the last time i checked the price is quite steep for just moderating things, plus you lose many in game features that cannot be moved. I have utterly no reason to move with it.

I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#31 - 2014-01-01 12:40:02 UTC
Has anyone got a link to the post or patchnotes that states the 3000 player limit? I can't seem to find it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
W3370Pi4
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-01-01 13:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: W3370Pi4
Lucas Kell wrote:
Has anyone got a link to the post or patchnotes that states the 3000 player limit? I can't seem to find it.


It was a sneaky change by CCP its not in the patch notes.
Edit : i made a petition about it i will see what happens.
Shira Dian
Xybercon Laboratories
#33 - 2014-01-01 16:05:30 UTC
Banning me and my alts, nice!
I know it's upsetting that you are wanting to charge for a service that is comparatively very easy to run, and others are willing to do it for free and all that. I actually used to have a small amount of respect for you, but your behaviour since this has all started has been disgraceful. All you've done is try to insult the people trying to keep a free service going and ***** about how much hard work it is.

Let's face reality. Your plan was to monetise the system and make a heap of isk. But what you've been faced with is the realisation that people don't want to pay for such a simple service, and now you are worried you are going to lose out. Perhaps it would have worked out better if you'd actually put any work into it, rather than simply charging for the use of a google forum, which has less functionality than the current system. Perhaps it would have been better if you were more transparent about your charge to unban system (which we all know you abuse for profit).

Such a shame.

Wholesale Trading - The all new, free replacement for the defunct Bulk Tade mailing list.
Shira Dian
Xybercon Laboratories
#34 - 2014-01-01 16:11:33 UTC
Since he chose to mail me this, and I feel this should be an open discussion:
W3370Pi4 wrote:
Hi

It is never good to lay out your strategy for your competition to see they might change theirs when they see that....

Fly safe
0/
W.

My response:
Shira Dian wrote:
I'm happy to lay it out. At the end of the day, what I want to see is a free and fair system. You are planning on getting rid of that (although your system was never really fair). I'm willing to provide the new service. If others are too and they make a more popular one, great! Running a mailing list is not a profitable venture, it's something done for the good of the community. You are blind to that.


It seems strange to me that there would be a competition over running a free service.

Wholesale Trading - The all new, free replacement for the defunct Bulk Tade mailing list.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#35 - 2014-01-01 16:13:49 UTC
At the risk of stepping into the middle of this... Can someone explain to me the benefits of having a mailing list for trading?
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#36 - 2014-01-01 16:17:36 UTC
Shira Dian wrote:
It seems strange to me that there would be a competition over running a free service.

Generally, free services compete on quality in exactly the same way that paid-for services compete on price.
Shira Dian
Xybercon Laboratories
#37 - 2014-01-01 16:23:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Shira Dian
Bad Bobby wrote:
At the risk of stepping into the middle of this... Can someone explain to me the benefits of having a mailing list for trading?
Trading in bulk often means people can shift goods quicker than the market and for prices higher than they could sell instantly, while buyers can receive it at better than the prices they could buy for instantly. A lot of times its beneficial to buy and sell in bulk. A mailing list makes it possible to do that.

Bad Bobby wrote:
Shira Dian wrote:
It seems strange to me that there would be a competition over running a free service.

Generally, free services compete on quality in exactly the same way that paid-for services compete on price.
True, but all we want is a free, fair list that serves the purpose well. Since there's no benefit to running it (unless you charge and questionably ban people charging fees for unbanning like the existing list) there's no need to compete, which is why I'm happy for the system to be managed transparently.

Wholesale Trading - The all new, free replacement for the defunct Bulk Tade mailing list.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#38 - 2014-01-01 16:41:33 UTC
Shira Dian wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
Shira Dian wrote:
It seems strange to me that there would be a competition over running a free service.

Generally, free services compete on quality in exactly the same way that paid-for services compete on price.
True, but all we want is a free, fair list that serves the purpose well. Since there's no benefit to running it (unless you charge and questionably ban people charging fees for unbanning like the existing list) there's no need to compete, which is why I'm happy for the system to be managed transparently.

I expect there are several ways such a list can be managed and, as always, there are both competent and incompetent people willing to have a crack at managing them. Therefore competition, on the basis of quality, is the natural way for one dominant service to emerge from a mixed-quality crop of similar services.

Shira Dian wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
At the risk of stepping into the middle of this... Can someone explain to me the benefits of having a mailing list for trading?
Trading in bulk often means people can shift goods quicker than the market and for prices higher than they could sell instantly, while buyers can receive it at better than the prices they could buy for instantly. A lot of times its beneficial to buy and sell in bulk. A mailing list makes it possible to do that.

I understand the concept of bulk trading, I'm just a little stumped about how a mailing list is relevant to that. Don't worry, I expect it's just one of those things.
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#39 - 2014-01-01 22:21:23 UTC
There are several benefits to a mailing list over the alternatives. No need to monitor a live chat channel, no need to be in a particular system or region, easy to format lists of goods, prices, alternatives etc. Moving it out of game and removing several linking options makes it rather crap though, and that's not even taking into account the google issue.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
W3370Pi4
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-01-01 22:23:39 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
There are several benefits to a mailing list over the alternatives. No need to monitor a live chat channel, no need to be in a particular system or region, easy to format lists of goods, prices, alternatives etc. Moving it out of game and removing several linking options makes it rather crap though, and that's not even taking into account the google issue.



Google account is not mandatory some people have joined with hotmail ect any free email will do , people are creating accounts solely for this purpose.