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Instrument of Abdication

Author
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-12-31 01:43:58 UTC
Perhaps.

But then again if it involves an elaborate claim regarding the d'Hanguests' just about everyone knows they are usually the ones responsible

*smile*

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#22 - 2013-12-31 02:09:07 UTC
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:

Here is Morija d'Hanguest's corporation description before jumping to your uninformed conclusions.

And if you do not believe the description is sufficient in evidence of their claiming to be direct representatives, Morjiah d'Hanguest will conduct herself in that manner. She may not claim to be an ambassador, but she still is making a steep claim.

Also, I said PIE was involved in Amarr government and are directly loyal. I did not say that they represented the Empire, even though they are intimately involved. The d'Hanguest are the ones who claim to be direct representatives. I was merely explaining the situation and was referencing how intimately involved both parties were with their respective governments is why this would become a much larger issue.

In your haste to try and make me look foolish, you stumbled over your own words. Your point was valid, but absolutely and entirely unnecessary.


There is a difference between what is claimed and what is actually the case. I believe Silas is talking about the latter.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2013-12-31 02:25:50 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:

Here is Morija d'Hanguest's corporation description before jumping to your uninformed conclusions.

And if you do not believe the description is sufficient in evidence of their claiming to be direct representatives, Morjiah d'Hanguest will conduct herself in that manner. She may not claim to be an ambassador, but she still is making a steep claim.

Also, I said PIE was involved in Amarr government and are directly loyal. I did not say that they represented the Empire, even though they are intimately involved. The d'Hanguest are the ones who claim to be direct representatives. I was merely explaining the situation and was referencing how intimately involved both parties were with their respective governments is why this would become a much larger issue.

In your haste to try and make me look foolish, you stumbled over your own words. Your point was valid, but absolutely and entirely unnecessary.


There is a difference between what is claimed and what is actually the case. I believe Silas is talking about the latter.


Believe it or not, I was not disagreeing. I was merely explaining the political situation.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

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Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#24 - 2013-12-31 05:41:07 UTC
Erin Savonarola wrote:


Ms. Rella,
The constant reference to 'slaver' this or 'slaver' that is an attempt of diminution towards the oldest and most established political entity in the cluster. Furthermore it is intellectually lazy.
The leaked holoreel and this affair are like apples and crystal stemware. The two are nothing alike, so a comparison would be completely out of order. The first bit was a mostly internal affair of House d"Hanguest. While it likely did diminish duchess Odelya's standing, it was hardly a catastrophic event.
In the current case, it is almost a house war, between House d'Hanguest and PIE. Furthermore, the war crossed a border from the Kingdom to the Empire. It stopped being something internal and threatened to explode into something more. Just as titles can be bestowed, so therefore can they be stripped. Had duchess Odelya not stepped down and renounced all claim, the repercussions would have fallen on the whole house and family. Quite simply, she too the whole burden of her acts upon herself, so that her family would not suffer more.

-The Contessa di le Solfete


Constant references? I hardly think so. I refer to those of you who don't hold slaves simply as 'imperials'. Believe it or not I was making an ironic statement with the generational slavery remark.

Does the empire practice slavery? Is your entire 'reclaiming' built upon slavery? Does your entire economic system depend on slave labor in order to function? Yes, yes and yes. Therefore I think you protest too much.

I still think it's barbaric to attempt to hold an entire family/house/generation responsible for the acts of a single person. Explain it and attempt to justify it any way you care to, in all other societies but yours guilt by blood or association is viewed as abhorrent.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#25 - 2013-12-31 12:15:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Anabella Rella wrote:
Erin Savonarola wrote:


Ms. Rella,
The constant reference to 'slaver' this or 'slaver' that is an attempt of diminution towards the oldest and most established political entity in the cluster. Furthermore it is intellectually lazy.
The leaked holoreel and this affair are like apples and crystal stemware. The two are nothing alike, so a comparison would be completely out of order. The first bit was a mostly internal affair of House d"Hanguest. While it likely did diminish duchess Odelya's standing, it was hardly a catastrophic event.
In the current case, it is almost a house war, between House d'Hanguest and PIE. Furthermore, the war crossed a border from the Kingdom to the Empire. It stopped being something internal and threatened to explode into something more. Just as titles can be bestowed, so therefore can they be stripped. Had duchess Odelya not stepped down and renounced all claim, the repercussions would have fallen on the whole house and family. Quite simply, she too the whole burden of her acts upon herself, so that her family would not suffer more.

-The Contessa di le Solfete


Constant references? I hardly think so. I refer to those of you who don't hold slaves simply as 'imperials'. Believe it or not I was making an ironic statement with the generational slavery remark.

Does the empire practice slavery? Is your entire 'reclaiming' built upon slavery? Does your entire economic system depend on slave labor in order to function? Yes, yes and yes. Therefore I think you protest too much.

I still think it's barbaric to attempt to hold an entire family/house/generation responsible for the acts of a single person. Explain it and attempt to justify it any way you care to, in all other societies but yours guilt by blood or association is viewed as abhorrent.


People do not make you the disservice to assume that because you are a Minmatar supporter, that you obviously support Vo'shun, burning at the stake, or the massacre at Colelie.

Please do not make the same fallacy in assuming that every imperial citizen supports generational slavery.

It is highly disrespectful...
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2013-12-31 14:27:41 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Erin Savonarola wrote:


Ms. Rella,
The constant reference to 'slaver' this or 'slaver' that is an attempt of diminution towards the oldest and most established political entity in the cluster. Furthermore it is intellectually lazy.
The leaked holoreel and this affair are like apples and crystal stemware. The two are nothing alike, so a comparison would be completely out of order. The first bit was a mostly internal affair of House d"Hanguest. While it likely did diminish duchess Odelya's standing, it was hardly a catastrophic event.
In the current case, it is almost a house war, between House d'Hanguest and PIE. Furthermore, the war crossed a border from the Kingdom to the Empire. It stopped being something internal and threatened to explode into something more. Just as titles can be bestowed, so therefore can they be stripped. Had duchess Odelya not stepped down and renounced all claim, the repercussions would have fallen on the whole house and family. Quite simply, she too the whole burden of her acts upon herself, so that her family would not suffer more.

-The Contessa di le Solfete


Constant references? I hardly think so. I refer to those of you who don't hold slaves simply as 'imperials'. Believe it or not I was making an ironic statement with the generational slavery remark.

Does the empire practice slavery? Is your entire 'reclaiming' built upon slavery? Does your entire economic system depend on slave labor in order to function? Yes, yes and yes. Therefore I think you protest too much.

I still think it's barbaric to attempt to hold an entire family/house/generation responsible for the acts of a single person. Explain it and attempt to justify it any way you care to, in all other societies but yours guilt by blood or association is viewed as abhorrent.


I think you may perhaps simply not understand the point of the Amarr Empire. In the Amarr Empire, we are all in this together. The reason generations can be held to account for their parents' reputation is because so much of who we are is derived from our parentage. We've kept excellent generational records throughout the years and if there is one thing that can be gleaned as almost universal, like father like son. Unless someone is removed from the environment that spawned their parents, there is no reason to think they will have grown up any differently. Thus, unless a family scion removes himself from power, it is only to be assumed that the rest of the family will continue to follow his example.

Glaring differentiation in family lines isn't particularly common, and we actually do have records that follow lines of slaves over generations that prove that not only do violent, rebellious, or seditious slaves produce similar children even in another Holder's house, but that the children of Holders who produce more violent, rebellious, and seditious slaves also tend to produce them in greater numbers. It's why I've always been interested in the Caldari tube birth program as a means of making the state the "parents" in this regard and thus perhaps over time generating markedly better performance. Time will tell if it is successful.

Regardless, especially among the higher castes, one can only owe their positions to the idea that one's forebearers had excellent parentage and teaching, and thus they are entrusted with that position thinking they will continue in the same honorable vein. It's also assumed that if the line has become corrupted, infected, or otherwise ineffectual, they've taught their family and children similarly. So we rise and fall together, in larger units, because our combined behavior and education is important to everyone. It isn't every-man-for-himself out here.

It's no more abhorrent than saying, "he's just like his father." Amarrian society is built on the idea that problems aren't localizes and that a drop of bad behavior has a ripple effect. Every failure is a systematic failure that has to be addressed to the root. It may be functionally different than Matari society, with its healthy reliance on individual accountability, but I don't think it's relatively incomprehensible. If you know someone was a criminal, a liar, and a cheat, and his children disprove that they've learned his habits, then it is fine to trust them. But it isn't necessarily illogical to assume the apples didn't fall far from the tree, for good or ill.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#27 - 2013-12-31 14:56:56 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
in all other societies but yours guilt by blood or association is viewed as abhorrent.

I don't think this statement is true, we may not outright condemn a person, but it is just human nature to judge a persons worth on the company they keep.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#28 - 2013-12-31 15:26:27 UTC
To Whom it May Concern:

I, Synthia 1, Imperial Queen of the Glorious progressive Theocratic City-state of Kaztropolis, Empress of the Wombat People Territories, Divine Empress of Greater Kaztropol Planet, Interpreter of Scripture, Diviner of Truth, Guardian of the Faithful, Observer of Unusual Facts, Inquisitor of Heretics, Missionary to the Heathens, Speaker of Profundities, Paragon of Virtue and Angel of Compassion, am Pleased to be in a Position to Offer Odelya, Lady d'Hanguest, conditional Refuge within the Kaztrpol Court.

Conditions would Include:
1. The promise not to Plot against Morija, Duchess of Palas.
2. Conversion from the Heretical Khanid Church to the Righteous Belief of the True Believers.
3. Not acting in Holo-Films featuring Extreme Personal Interaction.

And other Conditions that May be Required as Time Passes.

Sincerely:

Synthia 1. Queen of Kaztropol.

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#29 - 2013-12-31 18:31:17 UTC
Humility is never a bad trait.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#30 - 2013-12-31 18:40:24 UTC
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
To Whom it May Concern:

I, Synthia 1, Imperial Queen of the Glorious progressive Theocratic City-state of Kaztropolis, Empress of the Wombat People Territories, Divine Empress of Greater Kaztropol Planet, Interpreter of Scripture, Diviner of Truth, Guardian of the Faithful, Observer of Unusual Facts, Inquisitor of Heretics, Missionary to the Heathens, Speaker of Profundities, Paragon of Virtue and Angel of Compassion, am Pleased to be in a Position to Offer Odelya, Lady d'Hanguest, conditional Refuge within the Kaztrpol Court.


You define the firmament of compassion, Synthia, darling. If only you had more clones!
Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#31 - 2014-01-01 16:36:54 UTC
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
To Whom it May Concern:

I, Synthia 1, Imperial Queen of the Glorious progressive Theocratic City-state of Kaztropolis, Empress of the Wombat People Territories, Divine Empress of Greater Kaztropol Planet, Interpreter of Scripture, Diviner of Truth, Guardian of the Faithful, Observer of Unusual Facts, Inquisitor of Heretics, Missionary to the Heathens, Speaker of Profundities, Paragon of Virtue and Angel of Compassion, am Pleased to be in a Position to Offer Odelya, Lady d'Hanguest, conditional Refuge within the Kaztrpol Court.

Conditions would Include:
1. The promise not to Plot against Morija, Duchess of Palas.
2. Conversion from the Heretical Khanid Church to the Righteous Belief of the True Believers.
3. Not acting in Holo-Films featuring Extreme Personal Interaction.

And other Conditions that May be Required as Time Passes.

Sincerely:

Synthia 1. Queen of Kaztropol.



I hear the Wombat People throw great parties.

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#32 - 2014-01-02 04:17:43 UTC
Arkady Vachon wrote:
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
To Whom it May Concern:

I, Synthia 1, Imperial Queen of the Glorious progressive Theocratic City-state of Kaztropolis, Empress of the Wombat People Territories, Divine Empress of Greater Kaztropol Planet, Interpreter of Scripture, Diviner of Truth, Guardian of the Faithful, Observer of Unusual Facts, Inquisitor of Heretics, Missionary to the Heathens, Speaker of Profundities, Paragon of Virtue and Angel of Compassion, am Pleased to be in a Position to Offer Odelya, Lady d'Hanguest, conditional Refuge within the Kaztrpol Court.

Conditions would Include:
1. The promise not to Plot against Morija, Duchess of Palas.
2. Conversion from the Heretical Khanid Church to the Righteous Belief of the True Believers.
3. Not acting in Holo-Films featuring Extreme Personal Interaction.

And other Conditions that May be Required as Time Passes.

Sincerely:

Synthia 1. Queen of Kaztropol.



I hear the Wombat People throw great parties.

What happens on Kaztropol stays on Kaztropol.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#33 - 2014-01-02 23:44:25 UTC
Almost every war is a roll of the dice somewhat. The attacker obviously believes that the conditions are favourable, but they can never know. Simply because it did not work out the way the duchess planned does not mean that her decision making ability was impaired.

I've also witnessed losses much more chaotic and disgusting than this. Taking full responsibility was the most courageous action possible for the duchess and is laudable.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#34 - 2014-01-05 00:49:24 UTC
A good decision.

May I ask whether the new Duchess D'Hansguest, born in the purple, with all best high honors, ect. ect. will chart a new and less anti-imperial course in the future?

Just to be absolutely clear:

The Praetoria does not claim represent the Empire in any capacity. We work to support the Empire and especially the Empress, but are not representatives of either.

I believe this was clarified in some of the responses earlier, but it deserves an unequivocal statement.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

Morijah d'Hanguest
Ishtirak d'Hanguest
#35 - 2014-01-07 23:00:41 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
May I ask whether the new Duchess D'Hansguest, born in the purple, with all best high honors, ect. ect. will chart a new and less anti-imperial course in the future?
Lord Gaven,

we are devoted to the line of His Majesty and the Khanid Kingdom remains an independent and sovereign entity. While the universe and the heavens revolve, the light of Athra will forever brighten our path. May our life be sacrificed for its pure spirit.

As a token of our goodwill the majority of the prisoners of war, which were collected from escape pods that PIE vessels launched in a recent conflict, will be released in the next days.

May the light of the Divine always guide you,
Morijah, Duchess etc.
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#36 - 2014-01-08 08:50:03 UTC
Morijah d'Hanguest wrote:
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
May I ask whether the new Duchess D'Hansguest, born in the purple, with all best high honors, ect. ect. will chart a new and less anti-imperial course in the future?
Lord Gaven,

we are devoted to the line of His Majesty and the Khanid Kingdom remains an independent and sovereign entity. While the universe and the heavens revolve, the light of Athra will forever brighten our path. May our life be sacrificed for its pure spirit.

As a token of our goodwill the majority of the prisoners of war, which were collected from escape pods that PIE vessels launched in a recent conflict, will be released in the next days.

May the light of the Divine always guide you,
Morijah, Duchess etc.


This is a good gesture. Thank you.

The Khanid kingdom is indeed a sovereign Kingdom. We have no quarrel with those who support King Khanid II, only those who actively work to attack the Amarrian Empire.

Due to her personal actions in the last month, PIE inc cannot foresee a future in which it renounces hostility towards the person of Odelya. However, given the recent events we will not consider her actions to be representative of House d'Hanguest.

If this is an acceptable state of affairs for you, Duchess Morijah, then PIE inc will consider its disagreement with House d'Hanguest to be resolved.

May God be with all of those who are righteous,
Lord Admiral Gaven Lok'ri

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

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