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Is there any logical reasoning behind this game mechanic?

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Ryan Cady
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-12-29 03:34:49 UTC
Too many times have I been in my stealth bomber and been warped to the edge of a mobile warp disruptor, when I select warp at 100km resulting in a loss of my ship.

Frankly, I don't understand why this happens. Does this happen to anyone else?

The situation explained more clearly:

A group sets up a gate camp and has a mobile warp disruptor within 10km of the gate.

I warp to the gate at 100km to scout the gate. I actually end up warping right to the edge of the bubble 10km from gate.

Does anyone else feel this is a bit ridiculous? Is there a logical reason for this happening? Please tell me!

Thanks!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-12-29 03:36:17 UTC
This isn't new. Everyone who's flown in nullsec for a while is aware of this.
The logical reasoning is that it allows you to set traps for your enemies.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ryan Cady
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-12-29 03:37:32 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
This isn't new. Everyone who's flown in nullsec for a while is aware of this.
The logical reasoning is that it allows you to set traps for your enemies.


Well yeah that's the logic, but shouldn't I be able to warp in at a distance? I just think it's kinda crazy that even though I select 100km I still warp in at 10km
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#4 - 2013-12-29 03:38:08 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LackOfFaith
If your line of warp has a bubble along it, you warp right to the bubble instead of to the point you actually wanted to warp to. It's a feature of mobile warp disruptors (and warp bubbles in general), which lets people better lie traps in 0.0.

Create a "tactical" safe spot some 200 km or so from the gate in a random direction to be able to scout the gate safely.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

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Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#5 - 2013-12-29 03:40:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Azorria
Bouncing off celestials can work too, depends on how smart the guys who it all up are.

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#6 - 2013-12-29 03:42:00 UTC
Ryan Cady wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
This isn't new. Everyone who's flown in nullsec for a while is aware of this.
The logical reasoning is that it allows you to set traps for your enemies.

Well yeah that's the logic, but shouldn't I be able to warp in at a distance? I just think it's kinda crazy that even though I select 100km I still warp in at 10km

It would rather defeat the entire purpose of setting up such a trap if they could be so trivially circumvented.

The game already offers a means of doing what you're trying to do: warp in at a different angle. The campers then have to find a balance between finding a spot that covers more angles (meaning it's closer to the gate) and giving you quick access to that gate (since you arrive much closer to it and can just burn through).
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#7 - 2013-12-29 03:42:19 UTC
Grey Azorria wrote:
Bouncing off celestials can work too.

Sometimes people leave nice tasty traps (more bubbles) either in the direction of the celestials or at the celestials themselves. Directional scan is your friend.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-12-29 03:44:41 UTC
Dscan won't tell you what directions the bubbles cover. Only how many there are and what types.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#9 - 2013-12-29 03:47:26 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dscan won't tell you what directions the bubbles cover. Only how many there are and what types.

Technically you could determine if there's a bubble between you and the gate with very precise uses of dscan, right?

As to the OP, this is part of how bubbles work. Look up "drag bubbles" for further examples of intentionally using this technique.
Ryan Cady
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-12-29 03:49:00 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
If your line of warp has a bubble along it, you warp right to the bubble instead of to the point you actually wanted to warp to. It's a feature of mobile warp disruptors (and warp bubbles in general), which lets people better lie traps in 0.0.

Create a "tactical" safe spot some 200 km or so from the gate in a random direction to be able to scout the gate safely.


If I haven't been able to visit that system before I couldn't make a bookmark.

Also, some systems don't have celestials that offer better angles. It really wouldn't make it THAT much easier to get around these things if this mechanic was changed. I don't think.

I just don't think it makes much sense.
Julius Priscus
#11 - 2013-12-29 03:52:52 UTC
Ryan Cady wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
This isn't new. Everyone who's flown in nullsec for a while is aware of this.
The logical reasoning is that it allows you to set traps for your enemies.


Well yeah that's the logic, but shouldn't I be able to warp in at a distance? I just think it's kinda crazy that even though I select 100km I still warp in at 10km



Its designed to catch you as you come out of warp on grid either by stopping you before the warp destination or by dragging you past your destination.

only way around it is...cloaky nullified t3 or a interceptor.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-12-29 03:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Ryan Cady wrote:
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
If your line of warp has a bubble along it, you warp right to the bubble instead of to the point you actually wanted to warp to. It's a feature of mobile warp disruptors (and warp bubbles in general), which lets people better lie traps in 0.0.

Create a "tactical" safe spot some 200 km or so from the gate in a random direction to be able to scout the gate safely.


If I haven't been able to visit that system before I couldn't make a bookmark.

Also, some systems don't have celestials that offer better angles. It really wouldn't make it THAT much easier to get around these things if this mechanic was changed. I don't think.

I just don't think it makes much sense.


Guy wants an easily circumvented mechanic nerfed because circumventing it is too much effort.

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Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-12-29 03:56:17 UTC
Were bubbles initially introduced working like this? Was it some technical limitation or intentional?

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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#14 - 2013-12-29 03:57:44 UTC
Ryan Cady wrote:
Also, some systems don't have celestials that offer better angles.

Loke Doril! Those happen to be good systems for camping!

Ryan Cady wrote:
It really wouldn't make it THAT much easier to get around these things if this mechanic was changed. I don't think.


If you could land on the gate (or anywhere you want) with 100% efficiency, it would be no harder to get away than it is in lowsec or hisec. Heard of the Cloak-MWD trick?

ISD LackOfFaith

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Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
#15 - 2013-12-29 04:00:35 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
If your line of warp has a bubble along it, you warp right to the bubble instead of to the point you actually wanted to warp to. It's a feature of mobile warp disruptors (and warp bubbles in general), which lets people better lie traps in 0.0.

Create a "tactical" safe spot some 200 km or so from the gate in a random direction to be able to scout the gate safely.


Tbh, that's a lame mechanic. I'm all for people being able to gank other people, but when we start to break down logic to enable people to do this, well that annoys me.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#16 - 2013-12-29 04:02:53 UTC
Logan Revelore wrote:
Tbh, that's a lame mechanic. I'm all for people being able to gank other people, but when we start to break down logic to enable people to do this, well that annoys me.


So, spaceships flying through space-molasses, with FTL drives that go through planets, firing a variety of implausible scifi-weapons are all logical, but a field that can yank you out of position is where you draw the line?

ISD LackOfFaith

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Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#17 - 2013-12-29 04:09:23 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
Were bubbles initially introduced working like this? Was it some technical limitation or intentional?

It would be technically far simple if they didn't work like this. It's entirely intentional that they do what they do, although as always, the creative use is not something they ever design for.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-12-29 04:15:15 UTC
The solution is bookmarks.

Lots and lots of well placed bookmarks.

Back in the day the creation of bookmarks was a mandatory skill you would teach to newbies on day 1 because you could not warp to 0 on gates automatically.

This sucked, of course. But despite this, the importance of bookmarks remains a central theme.

Personally I think the newbie tutorials aught to cover bookmarking to the extent of bubbles/tacticals/etc. It's a rather vague mechanic unless you have experienced it -- which is exactly what tutorials are supposed to do. Force experiences to underline the importance of various mechanics.
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-12-29 04:15:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It would be technically far simple if they didn't work like this. It's entirely intentional that they do what they do, although as always, the creative use is not something they ever design for.


Oh yeah, not arguing one way or the other about it. I understand it's all from a game play balance perspective. I was just curious about the original implementation.

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ErrorRon
Turbo-Encabulator LLC
#20 - 2013-12-29 04:22:57 UTC
A way to check gates that arent within scan range or have any celestials in scan range is by draining your capacitor so you can't make the full warp.
Initiate warp and cancel over and over til your cap is dried up enough to not be able to make the full warp.
That way you'll warp most of the way there, but not the whole way. Stopping you before you hit grid and making it able to scan.

Also leave bubble mechanics alone pls thx

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