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CHIEF ACASSA MIDULAR SETS OUT AUTONOMY DOCTRINE AT TRIBAL ASSEMBLY

Author
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#21 - 2013-12-30 23:27:47 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
and you did immediately count me among your many threats through I'm fairly obviously not one. Amarrian though I am.

Nope, you're too well spoken, that makes you a threat. Sorry.Big smile

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2013-12-30 23:36:14 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
and you did immediately count me among your many threats through I'm fairly obviously not one. Amarrian though I am.

Nope, you're too well spoken, that makes you a threat. Sorry.Big smile


Do give Bella her credit, she isn't a barbarian, just angry. And unfortunately, even if I wasn't well spoken, a few of the major reasons I'm not a threat are my terrible combat skills. It just so happens the major ones are my job description and my inherent dislike of killing otherwise civilized crewmen of other empires. Without those, trust me, I wouldn't be a threat.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#23 - 2013-12-31 00:04:21 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
and you did immediately count me among your many threats through I'm fairly obviously not one. Amarrian though I am.

Nope, you're too well spoken, that makes you a threat. Sorry.Big smile


Do give Bella her credit, she isn't a barbarian, just angry. And unfortunately, even if I wasn't well spoken, a few of the major reasons I'm not a threat are my terrible combat skills. It just so happens the major ones are my job description and my inherent dislike of killing otherwise civilized crewmen of other empires. Without those, trust me, I wouldn't be a threat.

You underestimate yourself, Mr. Baracca. Smile

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2013-12-31 11:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Anabella Rella wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
History tends to disagree...


Since you're apparently now speaking for history, prove your statement. What the hell are you talking about?


Shakor is the prime example of it, but not the only one. Tribe enforced politics hints to possibly more Abel Jareks, or Colelie Incidents, which either directly or indirectly stem from it. Ms Saissoire gives good potential scenarios that can directly stem from such policies.

It does not mean that the system is bad, or good, per se, as all have seen what can happen with other types of governments.

Also, one has to wonder if chief Acassa Midular is genuinely interested in power to the tribes or if she is just playing on the fad of the moment to get on Shakor's own ideological field. I remember the Ray of Matar to be rather pro Republican... A political sentiment that is slowly fading out in the current "Republic".
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#25 - 2013-12-31 13:47:40 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
History tends to disagree...


Since you're apparently now speaking for history, prove your statement. What the hell are you talking about?


Shakor is the prime example of it, but not the only one. Tribe enforced politics hints to possibly more Abel Jareks, or Colelie Incidents, which either directly or indirectly stem from it. Ms Saissoire gives good potential scenarios that can directly stem from such policies.

It does not mean that the system is bad, or good, per se, as all have seen what can happen with other types of governments.

Also, one has to wonder if chief Acassa Midular is genuinely interested in power to the tribes or if she is just playing on the fad of the moment to get on Shakor's own ideological field. I remember the Ray of Matar to be rather pro Republican... A political sentiment that is slowly fading out in the current "Republic".


While that may be the case, I have a tendency to believe Acassa Midular at her word on this. Not only because she's proven rather forthright previously, but mostly because the late former Midular needed the tribes to be unified, to present a front to the rest of the universe. It was in their interest to maintain peace. Recent events may be leaving the new Sebiestor chief pondering whether unity under Shakor is a good idea, especially considering the fact that his somewhat less pleasant reputation is harming the Sebiestor along with everyone else.

In short, perhaps the waste of the Elder Fleet, the Colelie incident, and others, it would seem Acassa doesn't have faith in the current administration to adequately represent all the tribes collectively. So perhaps she thinks she can function better with her tribe on her own.

Or perhaps this is a play for power on her part so that she doesn't have to cowtow to Shakor. It's difficult to say. I've never met the woman.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient
Electus Matari
#26 - 2013-12-31 17:17:15 UTC
While I can understand the wisdom of strengthening the Individual Tribes, it should not be at the cost of weakening other Tribes.

We are strongest when we stand together, acting in union. Weakening the Links between our peoples only serves to weaken our people as a whole.

A Strong Tribe standing alone is nothing compared to what we can achieve together.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2013-12-31 17:22:09 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
While I can understand the wisdom of strengthening the Individual Tribes, it should not be at the cost of weakening other Tribes.

We are strongest when we stand together, acting in union. Weakening the Links between our peoples only serves to weaken our people as a whole.

A Strong Tribe standing alone is nothing compared to what we can achieve together.


As an aside, where would you draw that line of balance as it pertains to the present political situation?

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient
Electus Matari
#28 - 2013-12-31 17:32:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
While I can understand the wisdom of strengthening the Individual Tribes, it should not be at the cost of weakening other Tribes.

We are strongest when we stand together, acting in union. Weakening the Links between our peoples only serves to weaken our people as a whole.

A Strong Tribe standing alone is nothing compared to what we can achieve together.


As an aside, where would you draw that line of balance as it pertains to the present political situation?


There is nothing balanced about the current Political Situation. The Matari people are better served by strengthening all 7 tribes up to the level of the strongest than we are dragging the stronger tribes down to the level of the weakest however.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-12-31 18:18:36 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Tribal autonomy from the Republic or autonomy from the Brutor Tribe and Sanmatar Shakor that effectively controls it?


Flatly untrue.



The Chief of the Brutor Tribe is Wkumi Pol. There has been not one single instance of the Sanmatar even attempting to make a decision on behalf of the Brutor Tribe or any evidence whatsoever to support an implication that The Brutor Tribe has any power above or over any other tribe nor any position of favor in the Republic because the Sanmatar is also Brutor.

The Sanmatar as all other Brutor, in matters of the Tribe, falls under the word of his clan, then Chief Pol.

The Sanmatar's position is not that of "Minmatar Heth" that everyone so wants to paint him as but as the de-facto head of state, a mediator between the other tribes of the Tribal Council. To even be Sanmatar he "must renounce his or her own tribe to maintain objectivity, effectively becoming a nomad among their own people."

If you think that you would speak of unfair favor in the Tribal Assembly before any Tribe or Matari would you are out of your mind. If you think he gets to act autonomously even you are showing your ignorance. He mediates disagreements between the Tribes. That is it. As leader, he gets held responsible for poor mediation and bad decisions, his place is to carry the weight of the Republic and its actions. He is far, far from a dictator or someone that any Tribe has to "cowtow" to.

Any sign of favor or undue control the other Tribes would say so as is their right and responsibility. Such as Chief Midular addressing the Tribal Assembly about how the assassination of the Ray of Matar was handled. About how a tribal matter was unduly made a matter for the Tribal Assembly to handle. She did not say a single thing about the Sanmatar.

This is a matter of under what circumstances the central government may act in stead of a Tribe.


Quit trying to push conspiracy theories as fact.
Quit trying to make the Sanmatar your new Heth.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Zenito
Lekhantsi Salvage Depot
#30 - 2013-12-31 19:08:47 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:

There is nothing balanced about the current Political Situation. The Matari people are better served by strengthening all 7 tribes up to the level of the strongest than we are dragging the stronger tribes down to the level of the weakest however.


In terms of autonomy, the Thukker are by far the strongest. Could all Tribes exist as fully autonomous states within a State?

Not a bad thing, in my opinion. The old cattle-shed would fall apart quite quickly, I would imagine.

Zenitoka Katanga

Clan Chieftain

"A fair bargain leaves both sides unhappy."

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#31 - 2014-01-01 11:32:38 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
History tends to disagree...


Since you're apparently now speaking for history, prove your statement. What the hell are you talking about?


Shakor is the prime example of it, but not the only one. Tribe enforced politics hints to possibly more Abel Jareks, or Colelie Incidents, which either directly or indirectly stem from it. Ms Saissoire gives good potential scenarios that can directly stem from such policies.

It does not mean that the system is bad, or good, per se, as all have seen what can happen with other types of governments.

Also, one has to wonder if chief Acassa Midular is genuinely interested in power to the tribes or if she is just playing on the fad of the moment to get on Shakor's own ideological field. I remember the Ray of Matar to be rather pro Republican... A political sentiment that is slowly fading out in the current "Republic".


While that may be the case, I have a tendency to believe Acassa Midular at her word on this. Not only because she's proven rather forthright previously, but mostly because the late former Midular needed the tribes to be unified, to present a front to the rest of the universe. It was in their interest to maintain peace. Recent events may be leaving the new Sebiestor chief pondering whether unity under Shakor is a good idea, especially considering the fact that his somewhat less pleasant reputation is harming the Sebiestor along with everyone else.

In short, perhaps the waste of the Elder Fleet, the Colelie incident, and others, it would seem Acassa doesn't have faith in the current administration to adequately represent all the tribes collectively. So perhaps she thinks she can function better with her tribe on her own.

Or perhaps this is a play for power on her part so that she doesn't have to cowtow to Shakor. It's difficult to say. I've never met the woman.


That possibility also exists, indeed. It only makes sense that if she really is opposed to Shakor's unity over the tribes for her to push in the other direction, which means decentralization and power restored into the hands of the tribes.

However, Maleatu Shakor is also a firm proponent of tribal governance, only that the power has to be concentrated into the Tribal Council. Where some tribe leaders like Acassa Midular (in our hypothesis here) could actually favour the same tribal flavour where only said flavour is similar in essence : I believe if this is true, then her form of tribal decentralization puts the power on something closer to a Minmatar confederation of tribes rather than the current federation of tribes united under the "Sanmatar".

Which is a world of difference in itself.

All in all, is Acassa Midular genuinely interested in maximizing tribal autonomy (in favour of a Minmatar confederation) or just following the current tribal fad while actually following the footsteps of the Ray of Matar (in favour of a Republic where tribal influence stops at the cultural level) ?

In any case, Shakor political line stands somewhere in between.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#32 - 2014-01-01 14:33:41 UTC
Minmatar Tribal Assembly Closes After Ratifying New Political Order


Well there you go.

Looks like the Minmatar don't get to individually hide behind a voting booth curtain to rob each other. They get tribal chiefs to hide behind, but that's at least down to a handful of people who know it's their ass when things go wrong.

We need more autonomous systems. This is one of them.

As for the hand-wringing in the Federation, well while we are not like the Amarrians there are a lot of zealots here, and their religion is statism, the deity of which is "democracy". The Minmatar are tired of it, for it has not worked out well for their society. The Federation labors under this mob rule as well. We were promised "representation" and got mob rule. Nothing here is a surprise.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Jace Sarice
#33 - 2014-01-01 16:27:23 UTC


I see no downside to the tribes gaining any facet of autonomy, including autonomy from the will of voters. May this change encourage a return of focus to their own ideals instead of the ideals of others.
Kyllsa Siikanen
Tuonelan Virta
#34 - 2014-01-01 16:41:39 UTC
For the main course, I was given promises of a return to government of, by, and for the Tribe... and enough of this silly democracy nonsense as dessert?

This meal could scarcely grow more delicious.

“Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.” 

― C.S. Lewis 

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#35 - 2014-01-01 16:57:50 UTC
The tribals as a civilization won the right to choose, yes even wrongly.
Tabor Murn
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2014-01-01 17:20:50 UTC
Happy ******* new year to us!
Kyllsa Siikanen
Tuonelan Virta
#37 - 2014-01-01 17:23:06 UTC
Tabor Murn wrote:
Happy ******* new year to us!


Happy new year, Indeed!!!

“Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.” 

― C.S. Lewis 

Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#38 - 2014-01-01 18:05:03 UTC
Oh, it makes me all warm and fuzzy, particularly the fact that is was a Krusual (who I did so champion, what has it been, now, almost two years ago?) which got to grunt publicly on the subject. I don't imagine there is a Matari halfwit that could state what it means to be a "tribe" in an articulate fashion, but one beauty of tribalism is that the primitive little savages don't actually have to know what a tribe is for the benefits to accrue to interested parties.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#39 - 2014-01-01 19:09:21 UTC
I am curious to hear more about the precise role of the Republic parliament past this reform.

As it reads, it looks like a mere puppet of the Tribal Council...
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#40 - 2014-01-01 19:35:47 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Minmatar Tribal Assembly Closes After Ratifying New Political Order


Well there you go.

Looks like the Minmatar don't get to individually hide behind a voting booth curtain to rob each other. They get tribal chiefs to hide behind, but that's at least down to a handful of people who know it's their ass when things go wrong.

We need more autonomous systems. This is one of them.

As for the hand-wringing in the Federation, well while we are not like the Amarrians there are a lot of zealots here, and their religion is statism, the deity of which is "democracy". The Minmatar are tired of it, for it has not worked out well for their society. The Federation labors under this mob rule as well. We were promised "representation" and got mob rule. Nothing here is a surprise.


It would appear that the Matari tribes have begun to chafe under the power of the Sanmatar. This is a fairly significant political shift. It does effectively cut the feet off of Shakor. I suppose this means that you can have different dealings in different parts of the Republic with the different tribes.

I have to admit, though there may be wider political ramifications, there are no personal downsides to this for my diocese. This will actually make diplomacy quite a bit easier.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26