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All-Around T3 Advice
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Exeter Nardieu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-12-26 22:14:42 UTC
Greetings -

I'm a pretty low SP character at this point, sitting about 8.5 million. I'm stepping into incursions soon for a primary income, but have developed two skill plans: one to train into a Tengu with all support skills to 4 then 5, and the same for a Proteus. My missile skills and gunnery skills are about equal at this point, but I am much heavier into armor training. I don't mind changing to shield though as it won't take long.

I've searched the forums and online and there is a real abundance of information, but I'm looking for a pretty broad purpose.

I want a T3 that can run low-sec anoms, C1/2 sleeper sites, and pvp against targets of opportunity all at the same time that may already be in those sites (solo or small-gang targets, BC's BS's, etc). I will be flying mostly solo, some small-gang. I know the mobile depot is an option for refits, and seeing as this is a pretty generic role, I was leaning more towards the Tengu for the kiting abilitiy and easier run with anoms/DED's and sleepers. After I train into the Tengu, I'll do the Proteus for PVP, or vice versa based on general consensus. I personally prefer the speed and mobility of the cruisers over BC's for GTFO situations. Any recommendations? Both will take me about 60 days to train all skills plus support to 4.

On a side note - is there a ship you recommend for this in the mean time?

Thanks for your time!




And btw...just for everyones pleasure, I will be sure that all fits are full officer fits LolRoll
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2 - 2013-12-26 22:42:01 UTC
I don't know about running anoms and pvping at the same time with the tengu, but both the tengu and blaster proteus can run guri/serp anoms in a full PVP fit.

Tengu is also the clear PVE winner, being able to do anything and everything very well. Among missile support skills, getting TNP and GMP to level 5 do a lot for your bottom-line dps.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#3 - 2013-12-26 23:15:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Fenris Orion
Recently got into my first Proteus for lowsec PvP, but haven't really put it to the test yet. I'm still toying with different ways to fit it, but I'm not running any of the NPC sites you mentioned (starting to consider it for income).

Proteus is renowned as the tankiest cruiser ever, and best cloaky, but like all brawlers is easily pinned down and/or kited when maximum-tanked. I've tinkered with a dual-prop, all resist fit with the localized injectors for max mobility, still has lots of buffer, but I'll test that when I have armor-logi support. I think 900+dps, 550dps as cloaky 2000+m/s, 80/90/92/82+resists, and >50kehp sounds great in theory. Of course, over 150,000ehp with the 1600mm plate is really hard to resist.

Tengu has a 50% speed bonus to AB, shield tank, selectable damage, and range to project that damage. More speed, less tank, its' own problems applying damage (faster targets), ect. Take your pick.

I'll be eavesdropping on advice from more experienced types here. Big smile. Good luck.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-12-26 23:27:25 UTC
As far as solo PVP is concerned, I'd guess a solo proteus is likely a cloaky one and a solo tengu is likely a 100MN one. I'm not entirely up to date with the 100MN tengus though, they were all the rage at one point but now they seem... adapted to?

So, the solo tengu is oriented towards being able to do pvppppppppppppppppppppppp whereas the proteus is oriented towards ganking. Tengu is better at PVE.

Working towards a Tengu, you could always try a condor/crow. They catch fights and have a good chance of walking away from them, be it victorious or retreat.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-12-26 23:28:37 UTC
Edit: for solo tengu you will probably want a boosting alt and backup fleet, as per all solo pvp.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#6 - 2013-12-26 23:47:09 UTC
T3 is gonna get rebalanced soon (nerfbat incoming), maybe you should wait before skilling for them, just train all support skills and then train for the ship
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#7 - 2013-12-27 00:14:28 UTC
To mare wrote:
T3 is gonna get rebalanced soon (nerfbat incoming), maybe you should wait before skilling for them, just train all support skills and then train for the ship


Never bad advice, but t3's are not a major SP investment. And even if their get their dps/tank nerfed they'll be the best cloaky/scouty ships.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Exeter Nardieu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-12-27 02:12:04 UTC
Appreciate the thoughts so far. When I say for PVP, I am only really referring to if I come across others running anoms or sites as well. So most of them will also be mission fitted. I do like the idea of the cloaky proteus as I am a big fan of striking when people aren't expecting it. But I hear it is slow and not nearly as efficient on the PVE end.

Also, all the information I keep seeing says that the 100mn Tengu is no longer viable and that the missile nerf killed the Tengu. Just wanting some up to date, accurate information that will be suit my needs. I know T3's aren't that long of a train in the grand scheme of things, but for me 30 days is a long damn time for a game!
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
#9 - 2013-12-27 04:05:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Rovinia
I don't have much PvP experience with Tengus, but in PvE they are awesome. At least with Heavy Assault Missiles.

That's an affordable, completely T2 fit for a PvE Tengu, perhaps you have some use for it. Capstable and good Dps. If you can't use some of the T2 Modules, switch in a Meta version until you have the skills and than replace it one by one.

Subsystems:
- Fuel Catalyst
- Accelerated Ejection Bay
- Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
- Dissolution Sequencer
- Adaptive Shielding

Lows:
3x Ballistic Control System II
1x Damage Control II

Meds:
10MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Booster II
Thermic Dissipation Field II*
Kinetic Deflection Field II*
Large Shield Extender II

Highs:
6x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
1x Prototype Cloaking Device I

Rigs:
2x Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
1x Medium Ancillary Current Router I

*Exchange for whatever resists are required.
Exeter Nardieu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-12-27 06:26:45 UTC
I know this is off the original topic, but how about the HAM legions? The legions worth anything?
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#11 - 2013-12-27 14:01:50 UTC
Exeter Nardieu wrote:
I know this is off the original topic, but how about the HAM legions? The legions worth anything?


The legion is ok with HAMs in solo pvp(more utility and EHP than on the Tengu, what makes it a good 100mn brawler), pve not so much because of the rather limited range, for most pve stuff you probably want lasers, what the Legion does quite good. As for the use in Incs Tengus aren't really used and Lokis(for the long range web) or Legions(for the anti frig ability) outperform the Proteus here. However with cruiser 5 it doesn't take that long to get into a logi and the Basilisk and Oneiros certainly are in demand for Incs.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2013-12-27 19:02:37 UTC
In my opinion Lego is pretty close to where the 'rabid dog' T3s should end up. Passable at most things. A bit above average for a couple things and yet excellent at nothing. Realistically for investment in a T3 you could afford comperable More specialized ships.

Also insert the usual under skilled T3 pilots rants.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#13 - 2013-12-27 19:16:16 UTC
HML nerf might have killed the tengu in PVP, i dunno. But HML tengu is top-tier for explo plexes, while HAM tengu is still wtf-dps-ez-mode for anomalies.

Froggy Storm wrote:
In my opinion Lego is pretty close to where the 'rabid dog' T3s should end up. Passable at most things. A bit above average for a couple things and yet excellent at nothing. Realistically for investment in a T3 you could afford comperable More specialized ships.

Also insert the usual under skilled T3 pilots rants.


obligatory why-should-a-1bn-isk-fitted-ship-that-loses-SP-when-dying-be-worse-than-a-200m-t2-fitted-hac response. I'm not underskilled, though.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Exeter Nardieu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-12-27 20:00:33 UTC
Appreciate the advice so far. Just to clarify, I won't be using the T3's in incursions...I was just saying that I will be using that for isk income as a side note (different ship).

In terms of being under-skilled...the reason I am asking is so that I can generate a skill plan that will focus into one of them. For example, missiles have very different support skills than guns, armor vs shield, etc. So why would I not want a plan to train all of the appropriate support skills sooner than later? It doesn't mean I'm going to sit in it the second I am able to. I am going to develop a long term skill plan in EVEMon, optimize my attributes and train but I need to ensure it is focused. In addition, I believe it's much better when you specialize in something first, then branch out instead of being a jack of all trades and a master of none.

I'm going to be training into the Tengu first, then the Falcon I think. After that, I'm going to train Amarr cruisers to 5 as I already have the laser support skills and they have great advanced cruiser's with the HAC's and recons for PVP.
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-12-27 21:31:51 UTC
All kidding and trolls aside, the best training plan for isk generation is (most likely) going to be gal and drones.

I don't think as much for incursions, but anything else right now can be trivialized with smart use of drones. Additionally, you won't end up training and training to have a ship nerfed out from under you. This is because drones are used in every race and class to some extent and are needed for carrier if you choose to go caps. Point for point it say getting the drone remap out of the way is the best investment around.