EVE General Discussion

I fully expect to revel in forum content that will emerge one day or another when the one with the most warm bodies will also have every one of them in the biggest and baddest general purpose ship that can do almost everything. With some backup specialist ships, also biggest and baddest in its class, sitting in hangars, just in case.

Oh dear, did they stop getting wyvern kills off solar? Maybe send makalu to bait for you

Please don't cry/flame this is not about your wars but about imbalance in the game.
I know that for n3 best thing is to troll all of this kind of topics - as they cannot keep up in the subcaps.
How to make this nonsense blooooob obsolete in eve - is totally different thing.

Eve is not 'end game' new player always must have possibility to beat older players.
Capital and super capitals cannot operate on a battlefield without subcap support.

Again.
Topic is about:
- Capital ships using bonused subcapital 'guns' without the need of using Siege or Triage module.
- Capital Logistic ship taking over the role of Capital dps ship (because of safety not having to use Siege or Triage module)

So the same thing that earlier forced CCP to nerf Supers and remove drones from Dreads.

The issue is that capital are not meant to be used alone , and im talking about capitals not supers.

The base concept is that when you want to get full potential of capital ship you have to use siege or triage module.
By doing so you are blocked from jumping , remote support etc.

Dreads as DPS ships and have to use Siege module to get their DPS maxed.
Carrier as Logistic ships have to use Triage module to get their logistic capabilities maxed.

Carrier as a dps ship can overcome this mechanic , as he still keeps capital level EHP and repair systems ( including remote ones)
This is mostly ok when we are talking about normal drones that needs to get to the target leaving safe vicinity of carrier.

All things changes when we are talking about sentry drones - that behave the same way as guns.
They almost never leave safe spots around the carrier and they can be always abandoned as carrier can carry many spare sentry drones.

At some point fleet of those carriers can easily take over the role of Capital DPS ship because it get the same DPS level as dread group and they are much safer without the need of using SIEGE module.
( so they can always run, and defend them self alone from the subcap fleet)

People that are using Dreds know how often target dies when siege is only 30% and for the rest time you are a sitting duck, unable to defend yourself from smaller targets.

So again.
This is about fixing mechanic.
If you want capital level dps from 'guns' you need to have the same traits like siege dread:
- no remote support
- immobile
- some 'siege' cycle

And to get this DPS, you need at least 12 (twelve, dwanaście, zwölf, двенадцать, doce) bodies in carriers to equal the DPS of an single average dread, with average skills considered - and even more if the carriers have to give up DDA modules for more tank.

To get the maximum range a dread can achieve, these carriers also have to completely give up one of the roles you mention (logistics) and in order to do that and yet more bodies must be put in ships that compensate for this role, and as a result can be useless for contributing offensive DPS to the fleet. I imagine the pilots of the ~40bn ISK Guardians (logi Aeons) in PL's fleet can attest to this.

Consider a fleet of 200 slowcats - that's still less DPS on field than what even a competent lowsec alliance can field in terms of dreads.

Think about this as you're flying around next time in your 500M ISK T2-fit Tengu which can be replaced with a single Viator run.

Since it says that supercarriers and titans have to be supported with subcaps or carriers, I guess CCP actually invented the carrier + supers doctrine.

If carriers couldn't use the turret like uber range sentry drones...

I mean having to use heavy drones or fighters would be a massive nerf, you know...

We... did that?

I also don't solo much myself, sorry to be a skillless blobber

I got yer dev response right here..


Wait, whats this thread about again?

Forgive my ignorance, but if someone wanted to pursue a sov war fielding only frigates, would they enjoy much success against an opponent willing to field frigates, destroyers, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships? Probably not.

If someone wanted to play chess competitively, would they be successful if they decided to forgo the use of their rooks? Again, probably not.

It seems to me that in the current war one side is far more willing to use all of the tools available to them than the other side. Whether this is due to lack of isk, sp, or confidence is of little concern. That side is therefore enjoying some advantages as a result of this.

The use of mass carriers in a fleet comp is no different then the use of mass maelstroms, for example. It simply is a composition, nothing more. The mass usage of a ship is not, in and of itself, evidence of an imbalance, whether that ship be a frigate, battleship, or carrier.

Personally, I've seen no evidence presented that there is an imbalance. The fact that one side brings far more numbers and can still loose a fight is not evidence of an imbalance. Quite the opposite in fact. Numbers alone should never guarantee victory.