These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 
Author
Prince Kobol
#121 - 2013-12-24 15:03:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


One counter-example doesn't disprove the trend.

Do you disagree that timers are an incentive to have the biggest and baddest blob possible to either take ownership of a system or keep ownership as structures are coming out of reinforce?


I do disagree.

Tell me, would you take 10 guys to burn through an outposts armour, taking most of the day to do it and needing several ammo runs or take several hundred and get it done in 30 min?


Or just use your cap ships instead of bombers and you will be done and dusted in no time.

Something like 20 cap ships will take out a iHub in what.. 10, maybe 15 mins max.

TCU's and SBU just pop.

You choose to use bombers to grind structures, nobody is forcing you to.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#122 - 2013-12-24 15:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Prince Kobol wrote:


Or just use your cap ships instead of bombers and you will be done and dusted in no time.

Something like 20 cap ships will take out a iHub in what.. 10, maybe 15 mins max.

TCU's and SBU just pop.

You choose to use bombers to grind structures, nobody is forcing you to.


Unsupported dreads in a hostile system belonging to the people with the largest super/titan fleet in all of New Eden sounds like the perfect plan.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#123 - 2013-12-24 15:10:38 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


One counter-example doesn't disprove the trend.

Do you disagree that timers are an incentive to have the biggest and baddest blob possible to either take ownership of a system or keep ownership as structures are coming out of reinforce?


I do disagree.

Tell me, would you take 10 guys to burn through an outposts armour, taking most of the day to do it and needing several ammo runs or take several hundred and get it done in 30 min?


But several hundred people don't crash a node.

It takes several thousand people to crash a node. And nobody bothers, in general, until there's a reason (like, for example...an important structure like a station coming out of reinforcement....)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#124 - 2013-12-24 15:14:05 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:


But several hundred people don't crash a node.

It takes several thousand people to crash a node. And nobody bothers, in general, until there's a reason (like, for example...an important structure like a station coming out of reinforcement....)


Again, this is due to the number of drones and tactics being used in this war. We have had much bigger fights on unreinforced nodes for years with TIDI.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#125 - 2013-12-24 15:17:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


But several hundred people don't crash a node.

It takes several thousand people to crash a node. And nobody bothers, in general, until there's a reason (like, for example...an important structure like a station coming out of reinforcement....)


Again, this is due to the number of drones and tactics being used in this war. We have had much bigger fights on unreinforced nodes for years with TIDI.


Sure, you maybe had "bigger" fights (I assume you just mean more people -- but to me size is more than just the raw amount of people. The fights you are referring to are likely much smaller in actuality) -- but that doesn't mean nodes didn't crash.

Nodes have been crashing for years, and the #1 cause is during the exit window of reinforcement.

The timing window where ownership is determined and both sides want to shove as much **** as they can to either claim something new or protect what they have.
Prince Kobol
#126 - 2013-12-24 15:20:17 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:


Or just use your cap ships instead of bombers and you will be done and dusted in no time.

Something like 20 cap ships will take out a iHub in what.. 10, maybe 15 mins max.

TCU's and SBU just pop.

You choose to use bombers to grind structures, nobody is forcing you to.


Unsupported dreads in a hostile system belonging to the people with the largest super/titan fleet in all of New Eden sounds like the perfect plan.


Its is :)

So your main complaint is that somebody has more of something then you?

Also I didn't see threads being made when you were using your dasboot fleets against test?

I guess it was okay then because you were winning but now it sucks because your not.

I usually have a lot of respect for the goons but your constant crying is making you all sound like a bunch of HS carebear crying over being ganked.

Also, where are your Baltec Fleets? The ones where you were fielding like 500+ guys at once.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#127 - 2013-12-24 15:23:16 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:


Sure, you maybe had "bigger" fights (I assume you just mean more people -- but to me size is more than just the raw amount of people. The fights you are referring to are likely much smaller in actuality) -- but that doesn't mean nodes didn't crash.

Nodes have been crashing for years, and the #1 cause is during the exit window of reinforcement.

The timing window where ownership is determined and both sides want to shove as much **** as they can to either claim something new or protect what they have.


Nodes havent come down in a battle since before the attempted headshot of VFK several years ago. They are a new thing that is only happening in this war.

The nodes are going down with only 600 vs 600 man fights. These numbers are nothing at all special and fairly run of the mill for the last 5 years. The only thing different is the drone doctrines being used by both sides.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#128 - 2013-12-24 15:51:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


Sure, you maybe had "bigger" fights (I assume you just mean more people -- but to me size is more than just the raw amount of people. The fights you are referring to are likely much smaller in actuality) -- but that doesn't mean nodes didn't crash.

Nodes have been crashing for years, and the #1 cause is during the exit window of reinforcement.

The timing window where ownership is determined and both sides want to shove as much **** as they can to either claim something new or protect what they have.


Nodes havent come down in a battle since before the attempted headshot of VFK several years ago. They are a new thing that is only happening in this war.

The nodes are going down with only 600 vs 600 man fights. These numbers are nothing at all special and fairly run of the mill for the last 5 years. The only thing different is the drone doctrines being used by both sides.


Sorry CCP already said in another thread that the drones have nothing to do with it, you'll need a new drum to bang on about why its not fair that you can shove 1k megas in a system and thats fair but us shoving 300 carriers in a system is somehow the evilest of evils

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#129 - 2013-12-24 16:13:10 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


Sorry CCP already said in another thread that the drones have nothing to do with it, you'll need a new drum to bang on about why its not fair that you can shove 1k megas in a system and thats fair but us shoving 300 carriers in a system is somehow the evilest of evils


So tell me how 1000 mega dont crash the node like the 300 carriers do.

CCP have been wrong in the past, just look at titan tracking, remote DD, AOE doomsday, FW exploits, tech moons and so forth that at the time were deemed perfectly ok untill we went and abused the living hell out of it.

Having thousands of drones being deployed, recalled and abandoned are bound to cause issues.
Zulu Death Mask
Yaxchilan
#130 - 2013-12-24 16:16:06 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

Sorry CCP already said in another thread that the drones have nothing to do with it, you'll need a new drum to bang on about why its not fair that you can shove 1k megas in a system and thats fair but us shoving 300 carriers in a system is somehow the evilest of evils


Yeah megas die though and people get their killboard fix.
What happens when you field 250 slowcats?
Also... I'd love to see that CCP comment that drones have nothing to do with it :)
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#131 - 2013-12-24 16:41:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Having thousands of drones being deployed, recalled and abandoned are bound to cause issues.


I understand that you've been fed a sack of lies about how this all works, and being the good communist party worker you swallowed it all whole without question but I'm going to ruin a little something for you here:

Slowcats don't recall drones nor has the order ever been given to recall them, and the secret as to why you never bother to tell your carrier to recall its drones is in the name of the fleet comp.


Zulu Death Mask wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

Sorry CCP already said in another thread that the drones have nothing to do with it, you'll need a new drum to bang on about why its not fair that you can shove 1k megas in a system and thats fair but us shoving 300 carriers in a system is somehow the evilest of evils


Yeah megas die though and people get their killboard fix.
What happens when you field 250 slowcats?
Also... I'd love to see that CCP comment that drones have nothing to do with it :)


Slowcats die when you field the right thing, but its hilarious to sit and watch the CFC demand that we feed kills into their ******** sub cap monstrosity. I remember them making similar claims about us just wanting people to warp fleets into tracking titans and how absurd the idea sounded to them, and yet here they are screaming for nearly the same thing 'make them fly into our guns CCP, they're not doing it right"."

Sorry but you MUST bring the right tools to do a job and bringing 500 ships to a fight that are strictly inties and dictors isn't helping any node anywhere and yet you feel perfectly justified in your doing so and today you've all shown collectively that not only do you think you should be able to, but that also that the other guy should just lose because you've assembled so many people against your enemies.

The CFC motto: If raw numbers can't beat it it must be bad game design.

Oh also that link:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4021826#post4021826

CCP Veritas wrote:

Long term plan is the same as the short term plan - diagnose the problem when it happens and fix it. Ideally twice; fixing the root cause and also hardening the system against similar faults.

The causes for the previous three node deaths have been patched on TQ, for example.

It's worth noting that in all recent events it hasn't been the high load that directly causes the node death, but rather errors in the programming that only express at high load or in the kind of highly complex scenarios that large fights contain.


Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Zulu Death Mask
Yaxchilan
#132 - 2013-12-24 16:52:00 UTC
Yeah that DEV comment is well known and has nothing to do with Drones.

Are you saying that the thousands of drones don't affect the node crash?

Are you saying that slowcats are perfectly balanced and everyone who doesn't like them is a grrrGoon crybaby?

Also about the counter... which one are you thinking of?
There's been so many mentioned in various social media... all can be countered by your cap/super fleet and when in doubt just log in everything, cyno in everything and **** on the node. Extract safely at a later date.


baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#133 - 2013-12-24 16:53:51 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


I understand that you've been fed a sack of lies about how this all works, and being the good communist party worker you swallowed it all whole without question but I'm going to ruin a little something for you here:

Slowcats don't recall drones nor has the order ever been given to recall them, and the secret as to why you never bother to tell your carrier to recall its drones is in the name of the fleet comp.




So again, why is this only happening with slowcats deployed and with far fewer numbers?

CCP have said they have fixed this issue several times and it keep on happening.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#134 - 2013-12-24 17:06:59 UTC

Zulu Death Mask wrote:
Are you saying that the thousands of drones don't affect the node crash?


Yes, thats exactly what I'm saying, we've been using slowcats in huge numbers for a long time now, the node crashes are new, and obviously came in either 1.1 or Rubicons release since the fights in June and July were just fine

Zulu Death Mask wrote:
Are you saying that slowcats are perfectly balanced and everyone who doesn't like them is a grrrGoon crybaby?

Yes, I am saying exactly that, if you want to fight capitals you should need capitals, you wouldn't engage a battleship fleet in a frigate fleet, lose and then cry about how imbalanced the battleships are so why is this any different?

Zulu Death Mask wrote:
Also about the counter... which one are you thinking of?
There's been so many mentioned in various social media... all can be countered by your cap/super fleet and when in doubt just log in everything, cyno in everything and **** on the node. Extract safely at a later date.


I'm not going to tell you how to beat us, however when you bring 1700 people to a fight and 500 are in frigates and destoryers I think you have a strong place to start on the 'why aren't we winning' front.

And try not to cry about what we have and you don't, there was peace in the south, everybody was getting their share, you started a war and now you're unhappy with how its going, sounds like you picked on the wrong guy to me.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#135 - 2013-12-24 17:10:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:


I understand that you've been fed a sack of lies about how this all works, and being the good communist party worker you swallowed it all whole without question but I'm going to ruin a little something for you here:

Slowcats don't recall drones nor has the order ever been given to recall them, and the secret as to why you never bother to tell your carrier to recall its drones is in the name of the fleet comp.




So again, why is this only happening with slowcats deployed and with far fewer numbers?

CCP have said they have fixed this issue several times and it keep on happening.


Much more likely it is different issues each time.

The real question is: why do people want incentives to blob the **** out of nodes?

I'll never understand it.

Fix sov/find a better way to handle sov, and the problem will fix itself.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#136 - 2013-12-24 17:11:21 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

Zulu Death Mask wrote:
Are you saying that the thousands of drones don't affect the node crash?


Yes, thats exactly what I'm saying, we've been using slowcats in huge numbers for a long time now, the node crashes are new, and obviously came in either 1.1 or Rubicons release since the fights in June and July were just fine



You have never used them in the numbers we see now. The first full slowcat fleet also saw the first node death and every deployment that has seen action since has seen the node die.
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#137 - 2013-12-24 17:14:37 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
there was peace in the south, everybody was getting their share, you started a war and now you're unhappy with how its going, sounds like you picked on the wrong guy to me


DONT ROCK THE BOAT

And whatever you do, dont make PL log into EVE Sad
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#138 - 2013-12-24 17:15:17 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

Zulu Death Mask wrote:
Are you saying that the thousands of drones don't affect the node crash?


Yes, thats exactly what I'm saying, we've been using slowcats in huge numbers for a long time now, the node crashes are new, and obviously came in either 1.1 or Rubicons release since the fights in June and July were just fine



You have never used them in the numbers we see now. The first full slowcat fleet also saw the first node death and every deployment that has seen action since has seen the node die.


uhhhhhh....what?

there has been a full slowcat fleet for several months...he's right in that crashes didn't start until after rubicon
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#139 - 2013-12-24 17:15:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

Zulu Death Mask wrote:
Are you saying that the thousands of drones don't affect the node crash?


Yes, thats exactly what I'm saying, we've been using slowcats in huge numbers for a long time now, the node crashes are new, and obviously came in either 1.1 or Rubicons release since the fights in June and July were just fine



You have never used them in the numbers we see now. The first full slowcat fleet also saw the first node death and every deployment that has seen action since has seen the node die.


I'm sorry you think we haven't seen this many before but you're wrong, whats worse, is we've actually seen more, but do go on grasping at straws

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#140 - 2013-12-24 17:18:03 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[quote=Pinky Hops]

The nodes are going down with only 600 vs 600 man fights. These numbers are nothing at all special and fairly run of the mill for the last 5 years. The only thing different is the drone doctrines being used by both sides.


Sorry CCP already said in another thread that the drones have nothing to do with it, you'll need a new drum to bang on about why its not fair that you can shove 1k megas in a system and thats fair but us shoving 300 carriers in a system is somehow the evilest of evils



Um, no they didn't absolve drones at all. What CCP Veritas said was that it wasn't 'high load' causing the node to crash. It was conditions experienced during said 'high load'. Guess what causes high load? Drones.

Of course it no longer takes several thousand people to crash the node. 300 Sentry drone carriers take up the same CPU load as 1800 players before you account for any abandoned drones.