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James Amril-Kesh

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 11,532

#41 - 2013-12-23 13:13:27 UTC | Edited by: James Amril-Kesh

iskflakes wrote:

If your alliance actually has some courage, which yours does not, you can field titans. Titans will show a slowcat blob who's boss.

There's a distinct difference between having courage, and fighting someone on their terms.
Dropping titans is exactly what they want us to do, and it infuriates them that we won't. So they'll call us cowards.
We know what they're really saying.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Adamski flipflop

Trigger Warning.

Likes received: 12

#42 - 2013-12-23 13:58:36 UTC

Mizhir wrote:

Zulu Death Mask wrote:

Mizhir wrote:

Then they should spend their time to fix the actual probem, as Ssoraszh Tzarszh wrote.

Hint: Goonswarm is already working on their counter to Slowcats. Maybe you should copy it.

As I've stated before, winning or losing is pointless if you're not enjoying yourself.
Sadly I don't find entertainment in simply winning :/

Also my opinion is that there really isn't a counter to that amount of capitals... especially since, if you do get enough dreads to counter, the following escalation will break the node.

Which brings us back to the main problem: The blobbing itself.

god forbid people in a MMO of all things work together in any meaningful numbers

Mizhir

Devara Biotech

Likes received: 75,543

#43 - 2013-12-23 14:05:33 UTC

Adamski flipflop wrote:

Mizhir wrote:

Zulu Death Mask wrote:

Mizhir wrote:

Then they should spend their time to fix the actual probem, as Ssoraszh Tzarszh wrote.

Hint: Goonswarm is already working on their counter to Slowcats. Maybe you should copy it.

Which brings us back to the main problem: The blobbing itself.

god forbid people in a MMO of all things work together in any meaningful numbers

There is a huge difference between a group of 10-20 players working together and a group of several hundreds following the orders of 1 person.

Big blobs with 10% tidi might make great headlines, but they make bad gameplay.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Zulu Death Mask

Yaxchilan

Likes received: 27

#44 - 2013-12-23 14:21:51 UTC

iskflakes wrote:

baltec1 wrote:

Mizhir wrote:

Hint: Goonswarm is already working on their counter to Slowcats. Maybe you should copy it.

Nobody else can field the dreads in the numbers needed.

Black legion and RUSRUS already fielded enough dreads to break the slowcat fleet on two or three occasions, I think right now you need about 120 of them. Needing 120 capitals to kill 300 capitals seems pretty balanced to me (especially considering the slowcat fleet has 0 mobility and can't escape from long range fire).

Short range dreads also melt slowcat fleets (however you probably won't do better than even isk efficiency, making this an expensive option). Nearly any alliance can field enough dreads to kill an equal number of slowcats.

If you prefer subcap counters you could also use void bombs, smartbombs or neuts.

If your alliance actually has some courage, which yours does not, you can field titans. Titans will show a slowcat blob who's boss.

I don't know why you're saying what you're saying.... I mean, I'm not sure it's ignorance or you're just trolling but it is rather humorous.

I'll just like to point out that 240 LR dreads managed to kill 9 slowcats.
Tidi isn't in favour of dreads trying to alpha 250 slowcats.

Out of interest how many SR Dreads would you drop on 250 slowcats that have the ability to escalate with supers/titans and as an added bonus can crash the node if they're losing?

Your ideas of void bombs, smartbombs and neuts are all amazing and quite unique.
Hopefully all those stupid null-sec CEOs read your post and learn something.
It's not like those slowcats can't shoot back at you with perfect alpha (even in tidi).

You left the best for last though... courage.
That's exactly what the problem is... I see it now. Drop titans against the bigest supercapital coalition in the game when they have 250 slowcats already on grid (and can break the node at will... let's not forget that ;))
Drone assign and slowcats are completely balanced :(

I'm sorry for my slightly inaccurate caustic response... but there's a limit to how many times one can listen to these regurgitated excuses without losing part of his sanity.

Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#45 - 2013-12-23 14:40:48 UTC

Zulu Death Mask wrote:

iskflakes wrote:

baltec1 wrote:

Mizhir wrote:

Hint: Goonswarm is already working on their counter to Slowcats. Maybe you should copy it.

Nobody else can field the dreads in the numbers needed.

It doesn't matter!

We're the clusterfuck coalition!

We're skillless blobbers who only know how to blue tons of terrible people and cram more ships into a system

progodlegend has us right where he wants us

vince draken's superior diplomacy has brought together a huge mass of nonblue eve to kill us

n3 exists to destroy the cfc

ncdot goes where there is action

fountain was the mittani's last mistake

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Alphea Abbra

Project Promethion

Likes received: 874

#46 - 2013-12-23 15:42:57 UTC

Zulu Death Mask wrote:

(...)
It's not like those slowcats can't shoot back at you with perfect alpha (even in tidi).
(...)
can break the node at will... let's not forget that ;)
Drone assign and slowcats are completely balanced :(

Whatever you're smoking, I want some, it seems to be the good stuff.

"Perfect alpha" - there is no such thing, especially if you bomb off the drones. With drone assist we get better alpha, not perfect.

And yes, with our hotline direct to CCP, we can tell them to turn nodes on and off. That's why you see nodecrashes favour both sides pretty indiscriminately.

Drone assign is 100% balanced yes. The counter to a drakeblob is to shoot the drakes, the counter to an alphamaelblob is to shoot the alphamaels, the counter to an ishtarblob is to shoot the ishtars OR shoot the drones, the counter to a slowcatblob is to shoot the slowcats OR the drones.
Drone assign is not in any way, shape or form a problem*.

As for capitals, yeah, it's almost as if 2 years training, 2B investments and a lot of logistics and diplomacy pays off. I mean, whodda funk it, right?

*At least, I've yet to see any argument against it that is not a lie, or flawed, or simply ignores any downside there might be. I'll reevaluate when arguments can support the claims.

iskflakes

Likes received: 954

#47 - 2013-12-23 15:53:01 UTC

Alavaria Fera wrote:

We're skillless blobbers who only know how to blue tons of terrible people and cram more ships into a system

After seeing about 5 "nerf slowcat" threads on the forums just today, I'm beginning to think that. Despite numerous counters being available you have failed to adapt, and resort to trying to get slowcats changed.

(I love the "They want us to kill their slowcats but we're not falling for that" line too)

Right now, there are more options to counter slowcats than there are options to counter the blob. If we had more blob counters other than bombers and slowcats, there would be fewer slowcats for you to complain about. Perhaps we should be asking CCP for a few more subcap blapping capital ships? Maybe ones with siege cycles so they can't build too much spider tank?

If any CCP happen to be reading, I suggest you also buff titans so goons won't be afraid to use them.

Zulu Death Mask

Yaxchilan

Likes received: 27

#48 - 2013-12-23 16:07:49 UTC | Edited by: Zulu Death Mask

iskflakes wrote:

Alavaria Fera wrote:

We're skillless blobbers who only know how to blue tons of terrible people and cram more ships into a system

Is that why N3PL uses slowcats even when numbers are 1:1 ?
Is it because equal numbers are too large of a blob?
Or could it be that's it's easier to play an overpowered doctrine in overpowering numbers than to actually fight?

Tell me more about this courage thing you mentioned.
Then tell me more about how fun this whole thing is from either sides' perception.

Though I wouldn't worry about CCP nerfing archons, it's not like PL would be stocking up those hundreds of replacement archons without "knowing" they'll be useful ;)

iskflakes

Likes received: 954

#49 - 2013-12-23 16:40:54 UTC

Zulu Death Mask wrote:

Let's be realistic here, the numbers have never been 1:1 in a fight over a strategic objective. We both know Goons+RUSRUS+BL can regularly pull 800+ guys, and N3+PL can't. The simple fact that so many players are ganging up on N3+PL means they can't use subcaps to win strategic objectives, they will just get blobbed. Their only option is to use superior ships to counter superior numbers, which gives them a choice of exactly one ship because all the other candidates are unable to hit subcaps. It should come as no surprise that these sov battles have no variety.

You're trapped between a rock and a hard place, I get that. You can't kill slowcats without committing capitals. You will not commit capitals because N3+PL will win the capital fight. That capital fight can't occur anyway because the mass of bodies in the system eventually kills the node. N3+PL are playing to their strengths in a defensive war, which is exactly what every other alliance ever has done. If you're attacking you need to fight on their terms, and if you can't do that you should go home.

To fix this long term we need smaller conflicts. In the current meta you can count the number of reinforced systems in the whole galaxy on one hand, and you can be certain that every coalition in nullsec will be turning up to each of them.

ElQuirko

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,423

#50 - 2013-12-23 16:51:55 UTC

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Digital Messiah wrote:

and here i thought people used smartbombs

Hello smartbombs this is Archon I'm here to tell you about my drone bay that can carry 320 flights of sentry drones.

From your previous posting, you seem to have some personal bitterness towards the archonfleets. Is the nag-counter not all it's cracked up to be? I'm sure your scathing words will be much more effective... Roll

Dodixie > Hek

Zulu Death Mask

Yaxchilan

Likes received: 27

#51 - 2013-12-23 17:10:17 UTC

iskflakes wrote:

Zulu Death Mask wrote:

Again you seem to spout more incorrect information without having addressed the previous wrong information you provided.
But I'll retort anyway:

Quite a few fights have been 1:1 and you still drop slowcats.
Quite a few battles could have been 1:1 if you guys didn't just drop slowcats+ some inties/bombers.
The fights you don't drop slowcats you usually lose (either because you're outnumbered or you were outplayed, yes.. surprise surprise that does happen), which sadly gives you more intensive to only drop slowcats :oops: (Please note that these fights are usually fun, no matter the outcome)
I even remember an EMP BR were PL brought slowcats and even though you guys outnumbered the silly goonies up there you still dropped slowcats :)

iskflakes wrote:

You're trapped between a rock and a hard place, I get that. You can't kill slowcats without committing capitals. You will not commit capitals because N3+PL will win the capital fight. That capital fight can't occur anyway because the mass of bodies in the system eventually kills the node. N3+PL are playing to their strengths in a defensive war, which is exactly what every other alliance ever has done. If you're attacking you need to fight on their terms, and if you can't do that you should go home.

So basically what you're saying is that you find it justified that one side can stop the opponent by basically fielding so many caps/scaps that they either kill the enemy or bring down the node? Withthat last outcome basically stopping every other possibility of happening. Is that what you're saying?


iskflakes Likes received: 954	#52 - 2013-12-23 17:49:00 UTC 2 Zulu Death Mask wrote: ~words~ I guess you should just win every fight because you have more numbers. Yeah that seems good to me. -

SFM Hobb3s

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 385

#53 - 2013-12-23 17:52:16 UTC | Edited by: SFM Hobb3s

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Digital Messiah wrote:

and here i thought people used smartbombs

Hello smartbombs this is Archon I'm here to tell you about my drone bay that can carry 320 flights of sentry drones.

Dude the average NC. carrier carries nearly 2000 sentry drones nowadays, because of, you know, Nodes.

edit: stand corrected, flights being drones x5.


Zulu Death Mask Yaxchilan Likes received: 27	#54 - 2013-12-23 17:53:37 UTC 1 iskflakes wrote: Zulu Death Mask wrote: ~words~ I guess you should just win every fight because you have more numbers. Yeah that seems good to me. If you have nothing to say when someone responds to your lies then it's usually a better idea to not say anything at all.

The Scope Gallente Federation 243
Laserak The Scope Gallente Federation Likes received: 243	#55 - 2013-12-23 18:03:30 UTC I just wanna point out that Ncdot and Nulli didnt escalate, counter, drop dreads, titans, supers or do anything when we used slowcats to take Tribute. They died, ran away, blue-balled and didnt fight it, so theres that. Now carry on.

Dinsdale Pirannha

Pirannha Corp

Likes received: 3,519

#56 - 2013-12-23 18:05:23 UTC

Ssoraszh Tzarszh wrote:

Zulu Death Mask wrote:

Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:

Drone assist whine threads : Easier than coming up with a counter-tactic.

[snip]
[snap]
The tidi is ridiculous, so is the lack of kills in long-hour fights.

No fun allowed :(

Once upon a time we had node crashes with 50 v 50, then CCP upgraded.
A wee little bit later we had node crashes with 100 v 100, then CCP upgraded.
So small amount of time later we had node crashes with 200 v 200, then CCP upgraded.
Woe the seconds that flew by we had node crashes with 500 v 500, then CCP upgraded.
long live the system pilot cap at 750 and advanced notice of fights.
Then time went by and we had node crashes with 1000 v 1000.
All hail the TiDi to root out our nodes of evil and provide stability to all places.
And so the blobs of Sauron came and went as the ages past and the blob was once again found, by a Yule lad no less.
and now we have node crashes with 2000 v 2000....

If CCP upgrades now you will just bring more alts online and make it 4000 v 4000 crashing the node once more until ccp upgrades that.

No amount of upgrading or nerfing is going to be a better solution to the mentality of just drop in 2000 more raging brainless F1 randoms. What you should be asking for is CCP think of a solution where it is counter intuitive to blob and strategically important to spread out over multiple fronts / systems.

Break the mentality not the game.

Introduce a game mechanic that allows for the possibility of ships not jumping, or jumping to a random system 1-3 systems away from the target, or even the complete destruction of the ship.

The more ships that jump, combined with a mass variable, the higher the chance that something bad happens when there is a fleet jumped. And the more ships in a system, the higher the odds of something bad happening also goes up.

You jump 100 BS's, nothing happens.
You jump 100 supercarriers, a 3% chance per ship of it not jumping, a 2% chance of it jumping to the wrong system, and a 1% chance of utter destruction.

Also, add in 1 hour cooldown timers for ANY ship that is jumped using a Titan cyno, and all supercaps have the same 1 hour cooldown timer.

You are correct.
The only way CCP fixes this mess is with social engineering, not hardware or software.

EI Digin

irc.zulusquad.org

Likes received: 1,968

#57 - 2013-12-23 18:11:19 UTC

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

I already feel sorry for all of those soon-to-be dead freighters in Jita on any given Sunday.

Stronghelm Corporation Solyaris Chtonium 206
Decian Cor Stronghelm Corporation Solyaris Chtonium Likes received: 206	#58 - 2013-12-23 18:36:13 UTC Okay so.... What the hell is a slowcat? :/ [u]Unfiltered for the masses.[/u] http://imgur.com/mzSl1Ie

Helion Production Labs Independent Operators Consortium 417
Toriessian Helion Production Labs Independent Operators Consortium Likes received: 417	#59 - 2013-12-23 18:43:22 UTC Digital Messiah wrote: and here i thought people used smartbombs We do use smartbombs.... On the Archons to clear bubbles off of them :D Every day I'm wafflin!

Band of Freelancers 450
Mr. Orange Band of Freelancers Likes received: 450	#60 - 2013-12-23 18:50:49 UTC Decian Cor wrote: Okay so.... What the hell is a slowcat? :/ It's when you take your or someone's cat, attach a 8 pound weight to it and watch it move slowly around a room.