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Impersonating a GM.

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Curious Bear
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-12-21 03:04:57 UTC
Grimm Liberty wrote:
Curious Bear wrote:
Eyelight ZeCyno wrote:

you sure are mad about this


My dear boy you are mistaken, im verry happy about this, though i suppose the fault is mine for not being more clear.

Work got slow towards the end of the day today so i was browsing the forums and stumbled upon the latest DBRB saga. The fact that so many bears bought into the false GM response has given me renewed interest in scamming. I inted to use it to my favor in the future and was just wondering if im going to get sqaushed by the ban hammer.



um, I am new here, but isn't what you JUST SAID against the rules HERE?
You talk about "INTENDING to impersonate a GM" while on their Forums?
LOL


TOS issues have been unclear in the past. Hence why im posting on the forums for feedback. Thanks for being helpful friend.
Lady Areola Fappington
#22 - 2013-12-21 03:05:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Areola Fappington
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Curious Bear wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:

I expect the second you bring it into eve will be the second you get nailed for GM impersonation.


100% agreed. All i have to do is get them to look at a source outside eve (twitter for example, but not what im going to use) with an ingame name tied to it to make it seem legit and i should be in the clear?


No. The second you bring it in-game is the second you get nailed.

Since there seems to be some confusion, Boat didn't bring anything into EVE. He didn't use anything for any sort of in-game advantage. He never claimed to be a GM.

Your proposal brings the deception into EVE for gain, in some way. Hence why it fails.


In fact, here's a little analogy. I can sit back and say "I'm the President of the USA" all day long, with no impact. If I say "I'm the President, give me your money", I can be arrested (and locked in the loony bin).


Also, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but DBRB never really directly says "I am banned here's the note". Lots of implication and such, but never direct lines.




And why that quoted instead of editing is beyond me. I'm having a DBRB moment.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-12-21 03:08:43 UTC
Curious Bear wrote:
Eyelight ZeCyno wrote:

you sure are mad about this


My dear boy you are mistaken, im verry happy about this, though i suppose the fault is mine for not being more clear.

Work got slow towards the end of the day today so i was browsing the forums and stumbled upon the latest DBRB saga. The fact that so many bears bought into the false GM response has given me renewed interest in scamming. I inted to use it to my favor in the future and was just wondering if im going to get sqaushed by the ban hammer.


There is a very big difference between impersonating a GM, and writing a fake mail from one. What you have linked is not GM impersonation because no one is claiming to be a GM when they actually are not one.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Curious Bear
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-12-21 03:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Curious Bear
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Curious Bear wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:

I expect the second you bring it into eve will be the second you get nailed for GM impersonation.


100% agreed. All i have to do is get them to look at a source outside eve (twitter for example, but not what im going to use) with an ingame name tied to it to make it seem legit and i should be in the clear?


No. The second you bring it in-game is the second you get nailed.

Since there seems to be some confusion, Boat didn't bring anything into EVE. He didn't use anything for any sort of in-game advantage. He never claimed to be a GM.

Your proposal brings the deception into EVE for gain, in some way. Hence why it fails.


Also, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but DBRB never really directly says "I am banned here's the note". Lots of implication and such, but never direct lines.


Yes the point is to keep it 100% out of game with the exception being the end result-ISK/ships/mods whatever being traded/contracted to a scamming character of mine.

Think typical awoxing (joing the corp or whatever though in-game means, then once your on coms regularly enough to gain their trust point em to a website (non-ccp affiliated) thats has some sort of GM fabrication to get them to do what i want, like transfering me isk/ships/roles whatever.

That way nothing pointing to the fabricated GM info touched eve and all CCP sees is a transfer of goods/isk/ships whatever with no way to verify anything else.

Seems like kinda standard meta-gaming to me. Influence peoples thoughts through a forum not associated with eve (twitter, reddit, kugu, etc.) and get them to do what you want (stop loging in to fight a war, give you corp roles, give you ships whatever.)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2013-12-21 03:16:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Curious Bear wrote:

This is where i disagree.

No, this is where you get nailed for being really silly and obtuse and not understanding the difference between in-game and out-of-game.

Quote:
The Goonswarm and various Goon figureheads have often stated that they rely on the 'meta-gaming' aspect of eve as much as any tangible mechanic and it is a gameplay element that even CCP recognizes.

So provided DBRB has been cleared of any wrongdoing on this sort of 'meta-gaming' scamming surely i can manipulate his method to affect other areas of gameplay and not be found at fault?
…except that meta-gaming still has to abide by the EULA since it has in-game consequences. See that "game" part in "meta-game"? If you try to get an advantage by breaking e game rules, CCP will slap you.

What DBRB did had nothing with the in-game — he just trolled reddit and twitter. Reddit and twitter not subject to CCP's rule or EULA and have no connection with the game; what you're thinking of is and does.

Quote:
Yes the point is to keep it 100% out of game with the exception being the end result-ISK/ships/mods whatever being traded/contracted to a scamming character of mine.
That means it's in-game, so you're not allowed to imspersonate… well, anyone, really, but least of all any kind of game functionary such as a GM.
stoicfaux
#26 - 2013-12-21 03:22:55 UTC
If your out-of-game antics cause trouble for CCP, then CCP will make an in-game decision about you. Also, never underestimate the (sadistic) creativity of a bored legal department.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Lady Areola Fappington
#27 - 2013-12-21 03:22:58 UTC
Curious Bear wrote:


Yes the point is to keep it 100% out of game with the exception being the end result-ISK/ships/mods whatever being traded/contracted to a scamming character of mine.

Think typical awoxing (joing the corp or whatever though in-game means, then once your on coms regularly enough to gain their trust point em to a website (non-ccp affiliated) thats has some sort of GM fabrication to get them to do what i want, like transfering me isk/ships/roles whatever.

That way nothing pointing to the fabricated GM info touched eve and all CCP sees is a transfer of goods/isk/ships whatever with no way to verify anything else.

Seems like kinda standard meta-gaming to me. Influence peoples thoughts through a forum not associated with eve and get them to do what you want.


The failure in your devious plot is bolded. You've used "pretending to be a GM" to acquire stuff in-game.

Plus, there's a pretty huge diff between saying "I am a GM" and "Look at this ban E-mail, which I have manipulated you into thinking regards me".



Again, I may be wrong, but didn't DBRB say the actual ban email was a real one? If so, there's no "impersonating a GM", you just got fooled.

Don't feel bad man, DBRB is a pro. One time, he fooled me into thinking a titan was an IHUB.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-12-21 03:37:46 UTC
Leigh Akiga wrote:
Curious Bear wrote:
So its ok to do?


I think this will answer all your questions

http://i.imgur.com/9AlALX1.jpg

What video is that from? I remember seeing it once a while ago.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#29 - 2013-12-21 03:38:55 UTC
Wow, some people are really... er...

I will link this thread in bomber fleet when boat next FCs us (and the dominixes and the dreads)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ashlar Maidstone
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#30 - 2013-12-21 03:39:57 UTC
If you think by impersonating a GM outside of Eve is ok, let me say this was brought up not long ago about using alts as well. That anytime you impersonate somebody real or virtual, depending on the laws of where you are, you CAN be found and brought before the courts with charges out the wazoo.

My advice to you is don't do it unless you want to rot away in prison for doing something like this. like this
Curious Bear
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-12-21 03:42:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Reddit and twitter not subject to CCP's rule or EULA


This is exactly the point. They can't prove or disprove anything that happened there was actually carried out by the eve player in question: DBRB.

So say you get some rookie CEO of a highsec 'Industry focused corp' with more assets than common sense to let you join his corp. A week goes by and you help teach him the ways of running a corp.

You tell him that as a member of his corp a CCP GM sent you an email claiming the corp is doing something in violation of TOS. Now youve been a very helpful advisor to this rookie CEO so he trusts you but just wants to see the email before he gives you the roles you requested to fix the 'TOS violation'. So you fabricate an email and dump it to pastebin-not wanting to give out the password to your email.

Now seeing is believing and he has faith in you to help him get his corp 100% legit again. So he gives you the roles, you rob him blind, and he is understandably upset. Now you take down the pastebin right after your done stealing everything.

He goes to CCP with his story and 0 proof. You tell CCP you just smooth talked your way into his good graces and robbed him first chance you got and everything else he says is a lie. This is EVE mind you and upset people say crazy things, and with no way to verify that you impersonated a GM with a fake email they let you go.

Now tell me how that is going to be me banned or is in anyway different from CCP's point of view as far as being able to act on the info given.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-12-21 03:52:12 UTC
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:
If you think by impersonating a GM outside of Eve is ok, let me say this was brought up not long ago about using alts as well. That anytime you impersonate somebody real or virtual, depending on the laws of where you are, you CAN be found and brought before the courts with charges out the wazoo.

My advice to you is don't do it unless you want to rot away in prison for doing something like this. like this


I don't know where you got that you can get jail time from this, regardless of territorial laws. I'd really love to see the US try to expedite an Australian citizen for impersonating Mickey Mouse.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#33 - 2013-12-21 03:54:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Curious Bear wrote:

This is exactly the point. They can't prove or disprove anything that happened there was actually carried out by the eve player in question: DBRB.
They can when the scam victim reports you to the GMs for impersonating a GM for in-game gain, at which point it no longer matters where you did it.

Quote:
He goes to CCP with his story and 0 proof.
…aside from all the stuff you used to scam him, which they will nail you for since what you're doing is against the EULA and they don't mess around with this stuff. Thus, they'lll belive him far more than you. If you're really, really lucky, they'll just reverse the whole thing so you end up with nothing. But even then, it'll only be on your first attempt — the next time, they'll know for sure that you're breakimg the EULA.

Now, since you're going to be so obtuse about this and are determined to get yourself banned, can I have your stuff.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-12-21 03:55:44 UTC
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:
If you think by impersonating a GM outside of Eve is ok, let me say this was brought up not long ago about using alts as well. That anytime you impersonate somebody real or virtual, depending on the laws of where you are, you CAN be found and brought before the courts with charges out the wazoo.

My advice to you is don't do it unless you want to rot away in prison for doing something like this. like this

Why are we blue? I think someone made a mistake somewhere.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Curious Bear
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-12-21 04:05:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Curious Bear wrote:

This is exactly the point. They can't prove or disprove anything that happened there was actually carried out by the eve player in question: DBRB.
They can when the scam victim reports you to the GMs for impersonating a GM for in-game gain, at which point it no longer matters where you did it.

Quote:
He goes to CCP with his story and 0 proof.
…aside from all the stuff you used to scam him, which they will nail you for since what you're doing is against the EULA and they don't mid around with this stuff. Thus, they'lll belive him far more than you. If you're really, really lucky, they'll just reverse the whole thing so you end up with nothing.

Now, since you're going to be so obtuse about this and are determined to get yourself banned, can I have your stuff.



Everything i used to scam him would be over mumble or pastebin. Would join the corp with an app and then just help him and other corp mates in mumble to gain their trust. Fake gm email is on pastebin and then removed. What proof can he provide CCP?

So basically what your saying is since CCP will blindly believe what the victim says (that i impersonated a GM/Faked GM corespondence with ZERO supporting evidence) and ban me.

I guess i dont have to worry about locking anything down in my next corp b/c next time someone awoxes the corp i can just say "UM HE TOLD ME HE WAS A GM HURR" and be in the clear.

And yes you can have my draek.
Ricard Chastot
Snake Eye Production
#36 - 2013-12-21 04:06:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ricard Chastot
Curious Bear wrote:
He goes to CCP with his story and 0 proof. You tell CCP you just smooth talked your way into his good graces and robbed him first chance you got and everything else he says is a lie. This is EVE mind you and upset people say crazy things, and with no way to verify that you impersonated a GM with a fake email they let you go.


If you have to lie to CCP in order for your plan to work, then it's not within the rules. You're no longer asking if it is or even arguing that is it. Instead you're discussing (on their own forums) how to get around the rules and trick CCP. Ugh

Hello ladies (and dudes pretending to be ladies)! Say hello to New Eden's 2nd hottest Intaki! It's me. You can say hello to me. Hi.
stoicfaux
#37 - 2013-12-21 04:15:26 UTC
Curious Bear wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Reddit and twitter not subject to CCP's rule or EULA


This is exactly the point. They can't prove or disprove anything that happened there was actually carried out by the eve player in question: DBRB.

But CCP doesn't have to prove anything. They can ban you without reason.


Quote:
Now tell me how that is going to be me banned or is in anyway different from CCP's point of view as far as being able to act on the info given.

I agree that CCP would be loathe to ban you at first. However, CCP isn't stupid, and if they notice a trend, they'll act on it before it damages their reputation/income/business.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#38 - 2013-12-21 04:19:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Curious Bear wrote:

Everything i used to scam him would be over mumble or pastebin.
…thereby providing the evidence that you're breaking the EULA.

And per above, you are fully aware that your entire strategy is against the rules and you have communicated this to the world. Guess what will happen when you break those rules and start lying to the GMs to try to make up excuses…
Curious Bear
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-12-21 04:27:50 UTC
This is entriely hypothetical. CCP can see i have two acounts with one character each (minus this alt which is 1 day old) and have been in one corp since i started. Im not going to do anything ive described above. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to make a post like this then turn around and do what they described.

The point is i don't think CCP takes GM impersonation very seriously. Thanks all for making this a little more visible.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#40 - 2013-12-21 04:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Curious Bear wrote:
The point is i don't think CCP takes GM impersonation very seriously. Thanks all for making this a little more visible.

What makes you think that?
Last time it was tried, people got slapped hard.