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Now that the Stratios hasn't ruined BLOPS and PVP in general, how about that 5th sentry drone?
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Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-12-20 14:47:33 UTC
As far as I can tell, the main reason for removing that 25Mb/s from the Stratios was due to premature EFT-warrioring and people complaining that this ship was going to change the face of BLOPS drops across the game.

I've been PvPing in Lowsec since the patch went live and I've been on both ends of BLOPS drops in this time. My alliance has never used a Stratios in a blops fleet so far and we haven't seen a single Stratios get dropped on us so far.

Further, I've been using the Stratios to run exploration sites up to and including 6/10s and whilst I think it is a quality ship, it definitely feels lacking in terms of the higher-end sites. Killing the Crimson Lord in the Blood Raider 6/10 is something of a chore. Even with an extra drone, I feel it wouldn't outshine the Ishtar, given that the Ishtar still has those T2 resists and the range/tracking bonuses. The Ishtar is still a far sturdier boat for PVP in general too, and with the velocity bonuses to heavy drones it can get its damage applied much more easily.

So how about it - can we revert the unnecessary pre-nerf to the Stratios and bring it back to its intended role of being a capable ship for exploration up to and including 6/10s.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2 - 2013-12-20 15:20:29 UTC
I might actually consider buying one.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2013-12-20 15:59:43 UTC
No,

All 5s and 2 DDAs does about 531 DPS. Add 200 DPS from beams. if a 5th sentry was added that would be about 861 DPS.


Are you ******* high? A covert ops ship doing more DPS than some attack battlecruisers?
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-12-20 16:13:35 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
No,

All 5s and 2 DDAs does about 531 DPS. Add 200 DPS from beams. if a 5th sentry was added that would be about 861 DPS.


Are you ******* high? A covert ops ship doing more DPS than some attack battlecruisers?


Posts like this are the reason the Stratios was pre-nerfed in the first place. Try flying the ship for a while before you post.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2013-12-20 16:21:31 UTC
I've been flying it. It's still grossly overpowered in terms of damage for a cloaking capable cruiser.

How did you Veterans start?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#6 - 2013-12-20 16:27:01 UTC
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
No,

All 5s and 2 DDAs does about 531 DPS. Add 200 DPS from beams. if a 5th sentry was added that would be about 861 DPS.


Are you ******* high? A covert ops ship doing more DPS than some attack battlecruisers?


Posts like this are the reason the Stratios was pre-nerfed in the first place. Try flying the ship for a while before you post.


its a reasonable point to make. I think people are just sad that its PVE performance is meh. Which i kind of share in, but on the other hand, I still think with high SP and the right fit, the thing gets plenty of DPS for clearing deadspace battleships with reasonable speed. Its just kind of sad that you have to put a good 400m into fittings alone to get something that still has worse tank, worse projection, and worse dps than a 300m ishtar. I think the ship is perfectly usable for a lot of nullsec sites though.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#7 - 2013-12-20 16:32:45 UTC
Also, sentries are, to use a term from CCP Ytterbium (he wasn't talking about sentries) "WTFBBQOP".

So... what about no ? Lol

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Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-12-20 16:38:29 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
No,

All 5s and 2 DDAs does about 531 DPS. Add 200 DPS from beams. if a 5th sentry was added that would be about 861 DPS.


Are you ******* high? A covert ops ship doing more DPS than some attack battlecruisers?


Posts like this are the reason the Stratios was pre-nerfed in the first place. Try flying the ship for a while before you post.


its a reasonable point to make. I think people are just sad that its PVE performance is meh. Which i kind of share in, but on the other hand, I still think with high SP and the right fit, the thing gets plenty of DPS for clearing deadspace battleships with reasonable speed. Its just kind of sad that you have to put a good 400m into fittings alone to get something that still has worse tank, worse projection, and worse dps than a 300m ishtar. I think the ship is perfectly usable for a lot of nullsec sites though.


I'm not saying that the Stratios is definitely underpowered and that it has crappy DPS - the whole point of this thread is to have that discussion. What I object to is people making these stupid 'omg look at the EFT numbers' posts rather than saying something useful.

Your post, on the other hand, is far more constructive. If there was some way to give the Stratios a nice buff for PVE that doesn't push it into the realm of being OP for PVP, that would be great. I'm just struggling to think what it would be. My thought would be to potentially remove the laser bonus altogether and add the extra sentry drone. Or even give it a pure sentry bonus and take away the generic drone bonus to lower its PVP versatility. Probably some reasons not to do that, but let's discuss it rather than make sensationalist posts?
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-12-20 16:40:08 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Also, sentries are, to use a term from CCP Ytterbium (he wasn't talking about sentries) "WTFBBQOP".

So... what about no ? Lol


"A member of CCP once described a completely unrelated thing as OP, so don't give the Stratios another sentry".

How is this a useful contribution to the discussion?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-12-20 16:47:45 UTC
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
Altrue wrote:
Also, sentries are, to use a term from CCP Ytterbium (he wasn't talking about sentries) "WTFBBQOP".

So... what about no ? Lol


"A member of CCP once described a completely unrelated thing as OP, so don't give the Stratios another sentry".

How is this a useful contribution to the discussion?



How ia a sentry drone unrelated to stratios if that is exaclty what you will fit on that drone bay?



Lets be clear.. NO, NEVER !!!! Otherwise I want my rapier to fit 4 1400MM arties.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#11 - 2013-12-20 16:47:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
its a reasonable point to make. I think people are just sad that its PVE performance is meh. Which i kind of share in, but on the other hand, I still think with high SP and the right fit, the thing gets plenty of DPS for clearing deadspace battleships with reasonable speed. Its just kind of sad that you have to put a good 400m into fittings alone to get something that still has worse tank, worse projection, and worse dps than a 300m ishtar. I think the ship is perfectly usable for a lot of nullsec sites though.


The Stratios is cloaky and has a probing/analyzer bonus, and the Ishtar does not. Cost is not enough of a balancing factor to justify a dedicated t2 drone ship being a worse drone ship than a cloaky all-in-one exploration machine.

If the ship is "perfectly usable" for a lot of the hardest sites solo, and gets bonuses to sites that the Ishtar probably wouldn't consider (relic/data), and is cloaky allowing it to move around nullsec safeishly, it sounds pretty great to me.

Quote:
Your post, on the other hand, is far more constructive. If there was some way to give the Stratios a nice buff for PVE that doesn't push it into the realm of being OP for PVP, that would be great. I'm just struggling to think what it would be. My thought would be to potentially remove the laser bonus altogether and add the extra sentry drone. Or even give it a pure sentry bonus and take away the generic drone bonus to lower its PVP versatility. Probably some reasons not to do that, but let's discuss it rather than make sensationalist posts?


When the idea of an SOE all-in-one exploration ship was announced, I was against it, because I was afraid CCP was going to do the exact thing you described: Making it so good at running exploration sites that there was literally no reason to use anything else.

Right now, it seems like other ships are better at the actual combat-y parts of exploration, but the SOE ship is perfectly usable and gets a ton of other bonuses to make it faster and safer to get to the sites, as well as allowing it to use a greater versatility of sites.

That means that the Stratios is not going to be the only ship that anyone would ever consider using for exploration. Which is good. People should have to think about relative tradeoffs.
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-12-20 16:54:34 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
Altrue wrote:
Also, sentries are, to use a term from CCP Ytterbium (he wasn't talking about sentries) "WTFBBQOP".

So... what about no ? Lol


"A member of CCP once described a completely unrelated thing as OP, so don't give the Stratios another sentry".

How is this a useful contribution to the discussion?



How ia a sentry drone unrelated to stratios if that is exaclty what you will fit on that drone bay?



Lets be clear.. NO, NEVER !!!! Otherwise I want my rapier to fit 4 1400MM arties.


I'm not saying sentry drones are unrelated to the Stratios. Of course they are. The person I was replying to said that somebody from CCP once described some random game feature as OP and for some reason that's a reason not to buff the Stratios.

I also disagree about your Rapier comment. Force recons are specialised to be really good at EWAR and they are. That's their purpose, so they don't need extra damage. The Stratios is supposed to be good at exploration and was specifically stated to be capable of 6/10s, but it struggles with them. My point is that it might be suitable to give it an extra drone - maybe that should come at the expense of something else. But how about we discuss it rather than making unhelpful 'omg no' posts?
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#13 - 2013-12-20 16:58:15 UTC
Quote:
The Stratios is supposed to be good at exploration and was specifically stated to be capable of 6/10s, but it struggles with them. My point is that it might be suitable to give it an extra drone - maybe that should come at the expense of something else. But how about we discuss it rather than making unhelpful 'omg no' posts?


And the Ishtar is supposed to be good at combat. Why should the Stratios be a more powerful combat ship than an Ishtar?

The Stratios is good at exploration. It's just that exploration comprises so many different things that it's not going to be straight up better than ships that are dedicated to one particular aspect of exploration (e.g. combat)
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#14 - 2013-12-20 17:47:01 UTC
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
So how about it - can we revert the unnecessary pre-nerf to the Stratios and bring it back to its intended role of being a capable ship for exploration up to and including 6/10s.

How about no?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#15 - 2013-12-20 18:04:40 UTC
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:

I'm not saying that the Stratios is definitely underpowered and that it has crappy DPS - the whole point of this thread is to have that discussion. What I object to is people making these stupid 'omg look at the EFT numbers' posts rather than saying something useful.


The EFT numbers are a lot more applicable in PVP than PVE I would say. In PVE its a lot harder to get the lasers to do that work for you, in PVP you can still drop your 4 ogres, tackle something to death, and apply pulse lasers.

Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
its a reasonable point to make. I think people are just sad that its PVE performance is meh. Which i kind of share in, but on the other hand, I still think with high SP and the right fit, the thing gets plenty of DPS for clearing deadspace battleships with reasonable speed. Its just kind of sad that you have to put a good 400m into fittings alone to get something that still has worse tank, worse projection, and worse dps than a 300m ishtar. I think the ship is perfectly usable for a lot of nullsec sites though.


The Stratios is cloaky and has a probing/analyzer bonus, and the Ishtar does not. Cost is not enough of a balancing factor to justify a dedicated t2 drone ship being a worse drone ship than a cloaky all-in-one exploration machine.



I agree, but "better than the ishtar" is a pretty high bar that the stratios isn't anywhere near touching, even if you gave it a 5th drone, just sayin.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-12-20 19:53:52 UTC
Batelle wrote:

The EFT numbers are a lot more applicable in PVP than PVE I would say. In PVE its a lot harder to get the lasers to do that work for you, in PVP you can still drop your 4 ogres, tackle something to death, and apply pulse lasers.


This makes sense. In fact, I barely ever use the turrets in PVE and even then I only have 3, because one slot is used for a drone link augmentor.

How would people feel about dropping a high slot (along with the turret hardpoint) or even two in exchange for that extra drone?
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#17 - 2013-12-20 20:12:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Seranova Farreach
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
No,

All 5s and 2 DDAs does about 531 DPS. Add 200 DPS from beams. if a 5th sentry was added that would be about 861 DPS.


Are you ******* high? A covert ops ship doing more DPS than some attack battlecruisers?



another eft warrior neighsaying on a ship that can be out performed by a hull of equal or cheaper price for dps output.

edit. and some of the attack HACs can put out that dps

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#18 - 2013-12-20 20:13:14 UTC
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
Batelle wrote:

The EFT numbers are a lot more applicable in PVP than PVE I would say. In PVE its a lot harder to get the lasers to do that work for you, in PVP you can still drop your 4 ogres, tackle something to death, and apply pulse lasers.


This makes sense. In fact, I barely ever use the turrets in PVE and even then I only have 3, because one slot is used for a drone link augmentor.

How would people feel about dropping a high slot (along with the turret hardpoint) or even two in exchange for that extra drone?


i disagree, just the prenerf version will do.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#19 - 2013-12-20 20:39:28 UTC
now to you people whining about the stratios... its 450m.. now look.. that is the price of a t3 hull (better ehp and utility and great dps) or half that and you can get an ishtar which is the king of sentry drones. so all ill say is "Stop whining!"

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#20 - 2013-12-20 22:07:58 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
now to you people whining about the stratios... its 450m.. now look.. that is the price of a t3 hull (better ehp and utility and great dps) or half that and you can get an ishtar which is the king of sentry drones. so all ill say is "Stop whining!"

It's also better than a T3 in a covops configuration. Just saying, it's a COVOPS ship so it gets to benerfed somewhatd in exchange for the cloak. PvP hunters can do nasty things with them.
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