Skill Discussions

CNR, Golem, and Tengu are all good for missions. What you should do, however, is join a PvP corp and start having fun.

And if you’re considering this, which you should, then don’t waste skill time on Golem as you would benefit far more going with Tengu skills

I've seen the number of Golem pilots drop steadily over the past year or so. Tengu pilots are all over these days. I think there is your answer. That said, I love the range of my CNR.

When I used to run missions I went Raven -> CNR -> Golem and was always satisfied by the upgrade. 5000-7000 volleys are not to be messed with, battleships are down almost immediately (then you can go make coffee and wait for the drones to chew on cruisers and frigates); also TP juggling and salvo counting (not to waste torps) and not to mention XLSB pulsing was making missions somewhat more interactive.

Missions where NPCs spawn more than 60km away are nasty indeed, but warp-ins can be juggled with and generally the gated missions pop you in the midst of the NPCs, so the main concern is your tank breaking rather than slowboating.

Also one can always swap the SBA for an 100mn AB - worked several times with no big inconvenience. You can also drop the shield booster completely for a third TP and use an alt in an Osprey to keep the shields up.



With all the Tengu stuff going around I tried also a Tengu (my first T3 was the Legion). I can say it's hands down best for blitzing, but it depends on whether you like that or not. Also it's very sensitive to webbing and precision missiles are still having a speed penalty associated (bound to go away in a couple of days). Neuting and webbing is also nasty if you try and do sleepers in a PvP 100mn AB Tengu Do it on the test server if you want to try it.

Wrecks placement:
;". = battlefield after Golem runs.
.. ' ; " . . . . .. = battlefield after Tengu runs.


Basically I never ran any spreadsheets on this, but I can say that loot + salvage + bounties + mission rewards is slightly higher in immediate ISK gain than LP conversion; but for this you need an alt with great refining skills and also salvaging to V to get the most out of the stuff.


The conclusion I came to was this:
- blitzing + LP conversion = Tengu ftw. Looting/salvaging are a big no here.
- fully running the missions (with salvaging + looting included) = hard to beat a Golem.

Tengu's are hands down the obvious choice for anyone in PvE that wants to branch into literally anything else.
Wanna do exploration? Tengu.
Wanna go fly around 0.0 safely? Tengu.
Wanna Cloaky Rat in NPC Null? Tengu.
Wanna Solo Sanctums? Tengu.
Wanna Kill People? 100mn AB Tengu.

Even if it makes you a larger target, it is possible to use deadspace booster/amp, resists, and an officer power diagnostics for cap stable Large Repper (with maxed engineering)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Salvaging V was only necessary for a T2 Salvager, and didn't increase the salvage drop, just your success chance.

In my opinion the Raven Navy Issue is becoming obsolete. Maybe if CCP boost Cruise Missiles it might become viable again. It just requires too much ISK spent on faction modules to be a competitive ship in PvE, due to its inferior CPU.

Golem: It's a Tech2 ship, so it requires near maxed-out skills to make the most of it. You want: Marauders 5, 'Target Painter Operator - Elite' certificate, Torpedo Specialisation 4, 'Core Competency - Elite' certificate... But when you get thoseskills/certs, the Golem and its other Marauder counterpart ships are the best all-round mission runners in the game. PvE is what they are meant for.

Tengu: Easier to get into, but just as expensive for a good fit. Its great for blitzing missions due to its speed, but applied DPS does not match Golem with good skills.

I actually fly both ships for Level 4 missions - HAM Tengu and Torp Golem. Neither is pimped to any great degree. But the Golem can loot all those nice Drone alloys and pick up hot loot. The Tengu has to fly around to do that. Tengu also fails, relatively speaking, when it comes up against kinetic strong ratslike Sansha, Bloods and Drones. Which make up a large portion of the missions you fly.

So... if you want to blitz for LP, get a Tengu, but it doesn't perform as well on long missions. If you want the best all-round mission runner in the game with lots of hot loot, and superior applied DPS, get a Golem.

I am currently training Marauders 5, contrary to what posters on this forum have said. I will also be getting that elite Target Painter certificate in April when I remap to Intelligence/Memory. Oh, and the Golem is cooler and more effective to fly now, with its remodelled hull and Tech 2 Tractor Beams (I don't bother salvaging) .

Actually Golems are **** for versatility, Reasons:

Take one into a Gurista's Sanctum, and talk to me about sensor strength.

Take one into lowsec, and talk to me about maneuverability.

Take one into a PvP encounter, and talk to me about survivability.

Fit one out and put an expanded probe launcher on it, and talking to me about fitting issues.



The only thing you have to gain by flying a max skilled Golem, is being able to fly a max skilled stealth bomber.. which you could have done long before Battleshit V. My HAM Tengu far outdps's a Golem in almost all regards and is mildly pimped, but costed less then 2b ISK; usually by the time your average mission bear graduates from the CNR to a Golem, they have faction Ballistic Controls, Tank, and Target painters anyway.

I'm not saying the Tengu does exploration better then any other T3, just that it can, thus adding to its 'versatility'.




Uhm... No? T3's in general **** all over Marauders.

My PvE tengu for anomalies has 93%+ resists across the board, is cap stable with a deadspace L repper, has a point and a 100mn afterburner, and still will outdps/finish faster then a Golem. Torps are slow, Golem is slow, Mission Loot sucks. Havn't yet seen a mission that can even scratch its tank or make me boost more then 2-3 cycles. (Pretty sure deadspace Sanctums are harder then L4's)

Generally good advice here.

I've been flying a Golem for a while and really like it. It's unbeatable for missions with good loot/salvage such as Damsel and Gone Berserk where you're killing, looting and salvaging everything. For missions with poor loot/salvage, such as Sansha or especially Gurista, blitzing with a Tengu is going to be better. And as others have said, Tengu can do everything; if you ever want to get into exploration or nullsec or PVP, Tengu is great for all of those.

Tips for Golem:
*Marauders 5 is unnecessary. Way too much training for too little gain.
*Torps 5 on the other hand is MANDATORY because you need javelins. I carry both rage and javelin torps and switch between them, although being lazy and just using javelins is fine.
*Fit either an AB or MWD. There's a few missions where you warp in and never move (Damsel comes to mind), but for missions with gate travel an AB/MWD is a must because otherwise you'll kill everything long before you reach the gate.

Basic fit:
4x Torp Launcher II
2x Tractor Beam II
1x Salvager II

1x Shield booster
2x Target Painter
3x Hardener
1x AB/MWD

4x CN BCS

1x Missile range rig
1x Missile velocity rig

And for a lot of missions you can easily get by with 2 hardeners and use an extra TP.