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Jesus Returning Soon?

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stoicfaux
#41 - 2013-12-19 20:08:27 UTC
Da'iel Zehn wrote:

2) Descendants as numerous as the stars... we know that means not only physical descendants of the promised son Isaac, but also all those who would believe in the God of Abraham through his seed (Genesis 26:4, Galatians 4:28) Plus that is figurative language that doesn't necessarily need to mean every single star in the universe.

Okay, that's a major problem. If you're going to blow off parts of the bible as "figurative language" then I can blow off Luke 21 as "figurative language" as well.

Which kinda nullifies the working assumption:
Quote:
Parameters: The Bible is true.


Seriously, if you're not going to follow your own ground rules, then there's no point. This is just going to degenerate into a "I'm right because my bible quotes are fact, and your bible quotes are just figurative" one sided unresolvable debate.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#42 - 2013-12-19 20:09:06 UTC
Well i stand corrected, this thread is'nt nor does it have any religious overtones, comments, hints or spoilers in it. cos otherwise it would have been locked.








I like Cheese.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
stoicfaux
#43 - 2013-12-19 20:14:13 UTC
Tollen Gallen wrote:
Well i stand corrected, this thread is'nt nor does it have any religious overtones, comments, hints or spoilers in it. cos otherwise it would have been locked.

I disagree. So far this falls under "nerd debates" such as "Who would win in a war between Star War, Star Trek, and EVE in terms of societies (Federation, Empire, EVE factions, etc,) and technology (i.e. are EVE ships more powerful than Star Trek ships?).

You can debate/discuss a religion theme/meme/subject without the thread becoming religious. But it's a fine line and is not a cross that everyone can bear. (See what I did there?)


Quote:
I like Cheese.

I agree with you.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
stoicfaux
#44 - 2013-12-19 20:16:24 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Tollen Gallen wrote:
Well i stand corrected, this thread is'nt nor does it have any religious overtones, comments, hints or spoilers in it. cos otherwise it would have been locked.

I disagree. So far this falls under "nerd debates" such as "Who would win in a war between Star War, Star Trek, and EVE in terms of societies (Federation, Empire, EVE factions, etc,) and technology (i.e. are EVE ships more powerful than Star Trek ships?).

You can debate/discuss a religion theme/meme/subject without the thread becoming religious. But it's a fine line and is not a cross that everyone can bear. (See what I did there?)


Quote:
I like Cheese.

I agree with you.


Side note: I post a reply with the words "star wars" in it and a split second later I get an email advert for Star Wars The Old Republic. I am officially more afraid of Google than the NSA.

/waiting_for_my_STO_pomo_email_to_arrive_any_second_now

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#45 - 2013-12-19 20:19:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Well... it was fun while it lasted.

My point was to talk with others about Jesus' return and if they thought it was soon or not. It was not my intention to debate the Bible, Jesus, or defend Christianity.

I'm sure the moderators will be locking the thread.

*hugs all around* I do love this community. Thank you everyone for the input and discussion!

Smile

Edit: Wanted to get that in before the lock! hehe Big smile
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#46 - 2013-12-19 20:21:20 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Tollen Gallen wrote:
Well i stand corrected, this thread is'nt nor does it have any religious overtones, comments, hints or spoilers in it. cos otherwise it would have been locked.

I disagree. So far this falls under "nerd debates" such as "Who would win in a war between Star War, Star Trek, and EVE in terms of societies (Federation, Empire, EVE factions, etc,) and technology (i.e. are EVE ships more powerful than Star Trek ships?).

You can debate/discuss a religion theme/meme/subject without the thread becoming religious. But it's a fine line and is not a cross that everyone can bear. (See what I did there?)


Quote:
I like Cheese.

I agree with you.



HAHA i saw what you did there...

I guess i misunderstood the forum rules..

As for Star Wars vs Star Trek.. if i was forced to choose.. it would be Star Wars, cos everyone knows Jesus was really the first ever Jedi, not his fault ppl bastardized his teachings.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#47 - 2013-12-19 20:32:15 UTC
Da'iel Zehn wrote:
My point was to talk with others about Jesus' return and if they thought it was soon or notBig smile


fine.

no. I do not think it will be anytime soon. or ever, most likely. unless we have past and future lives and realities like in "Cloud Atlas."

and, yay, that be the true true.
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#48 - 2013-12-19 20:33:46 UTC
I got a Christmas card from one of my pupils earlier, it said 'open with a smile'.

It took me ages, I should have just used my hands.
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#49 - 2013-12-19 20:39:44 UTC

anyways ...its true he`s still knocking about and here`s the bloody TRUTH
Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-12-19 20:44:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Snagletooth Johnson
stoicfaux wrote:
Da'iel Zehn wrote:

2) Descendants as numerous as the stars... we know that means not only physical descendants of the promised son Isaac, but also all those who would believe in the God of Abraham through his seed (Genesis 26:4, Galatians 4:28) Plus that is figurative language that doesn't necessarily need to mean every single star in the universe.

Okay, that's a major problem. If you're going to blow off parts of the bible as "figurative language" then I can blow off Luke 21 as "figurative language" as well.

Which kinda nullifies the working assumption:
Quote:
Parameters: The Bible is true.


Seriously, if you're not going to follow your own ground rules, then there's no point. This is just going to degenerate into a "I'm right because my bible quotes are fact, and your bible quotes are just figurative" one sided unresolvable debate.


True and literal are two different things.
You can lead a horse to watr but you can't make him drink
A true statement, althought not a literal statement.
Much of the Bible is true, but not every single sentence is an absolute literal.

There is also the difference between the Old Testament (a written version of an "oral" history of the Jewish people) and the New Tetstament (a grouping of discussions of the witnessing of the life and teachings of Jesus as remember by his Disciples).
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#51 - 2013-12-19 21:07:38 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
I was going to give you a proper response. But as I see you recite passages from the Bible, instead of having a intellectual discussion (and prove me wrong in the process) I have concluded that this have gone straight from a theological discussion into the realm of religion.

As the parameters of the discussion is that the Bible is true. Then that means it is the Word of God. Therefore it can be cited as an authoritative source.

No reason to imply anyone is stupid when the discussion and its parameters are defined up front.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#52 - 2013-12-19 21:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
stoicfaux wrote:
"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken"

http://www.universetoday.com/12648/will-earth-survive-when-the-sun-becomes-a-red-giant/

Well, when the Sun turns into a red giant...

The passage there doesn't give specifics, so applying the Sun turning into a red giant to it wouldn't be proper.


stoicfaux wrote:
Anyway, the bible also says not to worry about when the end times arrive, and that Jesus will arrive like a thief in the night, so even when it happens, you won't know to expect it until it's too late. Plus, the bible explicitly says that you shouldn't waste your energy on worrying and should instead apply Christ's teachings to the here and now, because, let's be honest, the homeless family in your town should be more important to you than the second coming...


I'll need scriptural references on where the Bible says not to worry about when the end times arrive. Jesus did tell us to watch for His coming.

Again, I'll need a scriptural reference where it says that we shouldn't waste our energy on worrying about the end times... etc

Yes, the homeless family in our towns should be important. That doesn't mean we have to neglect looking for Christ as He commanded once they are helped out.
Casanunda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-12-19 21:14:48 UTC
This whole thread rests upon the assumption that the Bible is fact, dismissing the possibility that it is a several thousand year old compendium of campfire stories that attempts to give moral guidance and explain the hows and whys of the universe. I admire the OP for his strength of belief, but cannot subscribe to those beliefs myself. The likelihood of Jesus returning is in my mind zero, one simply does not come back from the dead after 2 millenia.

Historically man has created deities, not the other way around, and used them to justify the obscenities we inflict on each other, this is as true today as it was millennia ago as evidenced by the pretty much continual wars fought over differences in belief since we first figured out how to stab each other with pointy sticks.

The fact that I am not a gazillionaire Gallente aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#54 - 2013-12-19 21:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
stoicfaux wrote:
Okay, that's a major problem. If you're going to blow off parts of the bible as "figurative language" then I can blow off Luke 21 as "figurative language" as well.

Seriously, if you're not going to follow your own ground rules, then there's no point. This is just going to degenerate into a "I'm right because my bible quotes are fact, and your bible quotes are just figurative" one sided unresolvable debate.

"I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed" (Genesis 26:4)

To properly interpret any text you need to understand that at times figurative language is used in writing. It is also used in speech.

Simile: A simile is a rhetorical figure expressing comparison or likeness that directly compares two things through some connective word such as like, as, so, than, or a verb such as resembles.

The word "as" indicates this is a simile, which is figurative language.

You can blow off Luke 21 as figurative language if you want, but I disagree with that assessment.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#55 - 2013-12-19 21:32:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Casanunda wrote:
This whole thread rests upon the assumption that the Bible is fact, dismissing the possibility that it is a several thousand year old compendium of campfire stories that attempts to give moral guidance and explain the hows and whys of the universe. I admire the OP for his strength of belief, but cannot subscribe to those beliefs myself. The likelihood of Jesus returning is in my mind zero, one simply does not come back from the dead after 2 millenia.

Historically man has created deities, not the other way around, and used them to justify the obscenities we inflict on each other, this is as true today as it was millennia ago as evidenced by the pretty much continual wars fought over differences in belief since we first figured out how to stab each other with pointy sticks.

That is correct. Upfront the discussion is proceeding with the parameter that the BIble is true. Thus it would be fact.

I appreciate your response. I believe Jesus was resurrected from the dead on the Sunday after His death on the cross, so there is no need to come back from the dead after 2 millenia.

As to the evil actions of people who suscribe to one deity or another I have found that you can't judge a belief system based on the followers. I'll refrain from pursuing that discussion as it deviates from the original question and discussion.
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#56 - 2013-12-19 22:33:05 UTC
Topic is religious and thus is locked.

Out of Pod Experience Rule 3. Discussions about politics and religion not allowed, there are other websites with forums for these topics.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL
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