Out of Pod Experience

The answer was they were simple gifts fit for a king. The three magi from the east believed that He was the king of the Jews (Matthew 2:2), so they brought Him gifts.

thread title made me smile and i couldn't look fast enough to see who wrote it

I feel like i'm watching russell brand on TV. 'did he just say that? they didn't take that out?'

I wouldn't subscribe to those notions.

I don't know Russell Brand. I'll have to look him up.

Okay, I'll play your game.

Firstly, people have been predicting the end of times, second coming, etc., since forever. IIRC, scholars think that a lot of the bible prophecies were references to Roman Empire (which was oppressing Jewish/Christian people.) When that didn't happen as planned, people have been applying prophecies to their current generation/society/times. Personally, if Jesus didn't make a second appearance after WWII, then at a minimum I don't see anything in current events that would even remotely indicate an impending second coming.

Secondly, there's no reason for a second coming anytime soon if you consider the "your descendants will be as numerous as the stars" (Genesis?) bible verse. The number of stars visible in the night sky is too low, so if you consider the number of stars estimated in the observable universe, at least 10^23 or so, then you'll see that the second coming is a looooooooooooooooooooooong time off. If we had a trillion births every year for the next billion years, that's only 10^12 * 10^9 = 10^21 descendants. Of course, that 10^23 is an estimate and may be on the low side.

In other words, I wouldn' t worry about the second coming arriving until sometime after humanity has developed practical interstellar travel and has settled billions of planets, i.e. Jesus won't be arriving for dinner for many millions/billions of years from now. Or unless astronomers find evidence to revise the number of stars to incredibly low levels, i.e. the starry night sky is just a picture God painted on the inside of the glass sphere the Earth resides in.

1) Yes that is true. But Israel is the key to all prophecy as Luke 21 clearly lays out. Jesus would not return before they became a nation and not before they took Jerusalem away from the Gentiles. So up until then, it was just all wishful thinking.

2) Descendants as numerous as the stars... we know that means not only physical descendants of the promised son Isaac, but also all those who would believe in the God of Abraham through his seed (Genesis 26:4, Galatians 4:28) Plus that is figurative language that doesn't necessarily need to mean every single star in the universe.

I don't "believe" in UFOs. I saw a UFO from a distance of under 100 yards. See this post. Alien? Human? Government? I don't know.

Anyway... the story is over there.

My grandfather was a founder of the American Baptist Association in Little Rock, Arkansas.

My father was a lifelong Deacon in the Baptist Church, who studies the ancient texts along with my grandfather until his passing.

The 2 of them, and all the other Baptists when I was growing up, were absolutely totally convinced the world was ending in August 1988. Period. All the evidence was in.

That kind of behavior and belief is just absolutely delusional, and makes no sense in the real, rational world, at all.

Believing something fantastical is true or possibly true, just because you like the idea, is the most dangerous way of thinking.

I suggest you stop believing your nonsense, and stop posting religious crap on a forum where it is not allowed.

It saddens me how much of my brilliant grandfather and father's lives were wasted on all this kind of crap, instead of something productive.

They were obviously wrong and set a date, which Jesus clearly said we shouldn't do as no one knows the day or the hour. If I remember right, the person who propagated that actually set a day. See this link.


Saying that what we believe is delusional is your opinion. You have no evidence to take it beyond supposition. I'm sure your grandfather and father don't feel that their beliefs and world view were crap.

This is not a "religious" discussion as I have made clear. If people would stay on topic and avoid lashing out or being negative it would be fine. No one has to read this thread. If they do it is their choice.

I am interested in this and I was hoping to find other pilots here in EvE that are too.

"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken"
http://www.universetoday.com/12648/will-earth-survive-when-the-sun-becomes-a-red-giant/

Well, when the Sun turns into a red giant the Earth's orbit will expand (the loss of the sun's mass causing the planets to orbit further out) I imagine that the sun, moon, and stars will change (the sun will be turning red, the moon's orbit will probably shift as Earth's orbit shifts, and the stars will appear to change their position as the Earth's orbit changes.) The Earth's oceans will boil away, etc., and in general anyone who doesn't have the means to leave the planet will most likely be apprehensive.

So, we're looking at 5+ billion years before verses 25-26 come into effect.

However, that still leaves the "descendants as countless as the stars" thing to reconcile, because I'm pretty sure that 5+ billion years isn't enough time to have 10^23 or so descendants.

Or maybe v25-26 refer to the eventual demise of the Universe? Or maybe an alien invasion by another species that has their own religion that's incompatible with the heathen teachings of the Earth people? Or maybe the Earth will be damaged/destroyed by a rogue planet happens to perturb our orbit? Maybe a partial hit from a gamma ray burst from a dying star?


Anyway, the bible also says not to worry about when the end times arrive, and that Jesus will arrive like a thief in the night, so even when it happens, you won't know to expect it until it's too late. Plus, the bible explicitly says that you shouldn't waste your energy on worrying and should instead apply Christ's teachings to the here and now, because, let's be honest, the homeless family in your town should be more important to you than the second coming.


tl;dr - I used to think the Catholic Church's rule against letting laypeople interpret the bible was a control thing. Now I realize that it is (mostly) to prevent people from making questionable to outright batshit insane interpretations of scripture, especially in light of how much history, context, linguistics, etc., is needed to put things in a proper light.