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Ship Bay Nerf
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Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#1 - 2013-12-17 15:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Good Morning,

I'd recommend nerfing Orcas (or all ships) a little in regard to their ship bays.

There should be a 30 second timer for a pilot to bay switch ships while in space. It isn't realistic for a pilot to board another ship in the Orca (or any ship) with an immediate result then immediately have full function of their new vessel.

1) Ship initiates a board process (can be canceled) with a ship in the ship bay. A timer counts down from 30 then the pilot switches.

or

2) Ship boarding is immediate. Pilot has a 30 second delay before gaining any functionality of the new ship including warp capabilities etc.
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals
#2 - 2013-12-17 15:59:04 UTC
Why not for all ships huh?
What'd that orca ever do to you?

I am the Zodiac, I am the stars, You are the sorceress, my priestess of Mars, Queen of the night, swathed in satin black, Your ivory flesh upon my torture rack.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#3 - 2013-12-17 16:05:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Electrique Wizard wrote:
Why not for all ships huh?
What'd that orca ever do to you?


lol... Good point. I suppose that could go for any ship with ship bay capabilities. Thank you for pointing that out.

Edit: updated thread's op.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#4 - 2013-12-17 16:12:46 UTC
What problem is this meant to solve?

Also, in a game with jump clones, FTL travel, and host of other things, this is the part that is unrealistic?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2013-12-17 16:22:27 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
What problem is this meant to solve?

Also, in a game with jump clones, FTL travel, and host of other things, this is the part that is unrealistic?



I think it's to solve the highsec mechanic of stealing someone's can, having them shoot you and then swapping your hauler for a combat ship to wreck them with.

Simple answer being, don't shoot suspects if there's an orca around.
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#6 - 2013-12-17 16:22:32 UTC
Your pod is buried deep in the heart of your ship, it should take at least 30 seconds to disconnect, extract, insert and reconnect to a new ship.

Ship size does not really matter in that regard.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-12-17 16:24:15 UTC
Michael Loney wrote:
Your pod is buried deep in the heart of your ship, it should take at least 30 seconds to disconnect, extract, insert and reconnect to a new ship.

Ship size does not really matter in that regard.


Why? it doesn't in a station, and it doesn't take 30 seconds to pop out of a wreck.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#8 - 2013-12-17 16:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Danika Princip wrote:
Why? it doesn't in a station, and it doesn't take 30 seconds to pop out of a wreck.

Emergency eject when the ship is going to explode is realistic.

In a station you have to dock, load environment, change ship, undock, load space environment... takes time either way. And it does not have an instant impact on other players.

Edit: And a station could realistically have much better, specialized equipment to move a capsule around the ships in the hanger.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#9 - 2013-12-17 16:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Danika Princip wrote:
I think it's to solve the highsec mechanic of stealing someone's can, having them shoot you and then swapping your hauler for a combat ship to wreck them with. Simple answer being, don't shoot suspects if there's an orca around.

In regard to this activity, if an orca is used to switch a ship for a suspect (especially as another player is shooting said suspect), the orca should immediately become a suspect as well. Same as anyone who remote reps or assists a suspect in some way. That is more realistic.

No one should ever be able to assist a suspect or criminal without becoming a suspect or criminal themselves.

Thinking about it... if a player is involved in combat they should not be able to switch ships using a ship bay. In my opinion it is an exploit. See the scenario below.

Pilot is in combat flying a combat ship. Ship is about to explode. Pilot immediately switches to a new, fully ready ship. Pilot's ship in hull is saved. Switching pilot wins the combat with new, fresh ship as the other pilot is in hull too.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#10 - 2013-12-17 19:16:15 UTC
Da'iel Zehn wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
I think it's to solve the highsec mechanic of stealing someone's can, having them shoot you and then swapping your hauler for a combat ship to wreck them with. Simple answer being, don't shoot suspects if there's an orca around.

In regard to this activity, if an orca is used to switch a ship for a suspect (especially as another player is shooting said suspect), the orca should immediately become a suspect as well. Same as anyone who remote reps or assists a suspect in some way. That is more realistic.

No one should ever be able to assist a suspect or criminal without becoming a suspect or criminal themselves.

Thinking about it... if a player is involved in combat they should not be able to switch ships using a ship bay. In my opinion it is an exploit. See the scenario below.

Pilot is in combat flying a combat ship. Ship is about to explode. Pilot immediately switches to a new, fully ready ship. Pilot's ship in hull is saved. Switching pilot wins the combat with new, fresh ship as the other pilot is in hull too.



that's subjective, you could equally argue that it's just emergent gameplay. I do have sympathy with your points but in a high tech universe like EVE I have no problem with being able to instantly connect to and control different ships via your universal pod interface.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-12-17 19:20:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
There is already a targetting nerf on the orca maintanance bay so that if the parking ship is targetted they cannot dock that ship... if this is not enough .. I say tough. You might as well bring back the station undock timer....

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#12 - 2013-12-17 19:24:56 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
There is already a targetting nerf on the orca maintanance bay so that if the parking ship is targetted they cannot dock that ship...

I was sitting at a gate observing the other night. A guy was using a Retriever as bait with his Orca behind him. A Caracal locked the Retriever and started firing. The guy in the Retriever switched to a Proteus immediately and ganked the caracal with his three buddies.

So I don't know what you are talking about when you say a "targeting nerf on the orca maintenance bay."
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#13 - 2013-12-17 19:28:33 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
...that's subjective, you could equally argue that it's just emergent gameplay...

If emergent game play means exploits are fine... then I suppose you are right. We might as well all get us a pet Orca and drag them around with us. Stupid.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#14 - 2013-12-17 19:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
That Caracal learned a lesson about taking bait. I see no problems with what happened, nor do I see any exploits.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#15 - 2013-12-17 19:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
That Caracal learned a lesson about taking bait. I see no problems with what happened, nor do I see any exploits.


Yes, he did learn a lesson. I don't have a problem with his Caracal being blasted to bits nor his pod being popped for taking the bait. The problem I have is with the Retriever to Proteus immediate switch in the middle of combat with absolutely no penalty.

The same scenario without the exploit would have had the same outcome. The Caracal and pod would be toast, but at least the Caracal player would have been on even footing and no one would be able to immediately change ships in the middle of combat.

I'm really surprised that some people fail to see the exploit nature of switching ships right in the middle of combat. It is an absurd exploitable game mechanic.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#16 - 2013-12-17 19:42:02 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
What problem is this meant to solve?

Also, in a game with jump clones, FTL travel, and host of other things, this is the part that is unrealistic?



I think it's to solve the highsec mechanic of stealing someone's can, having them shoot you and then swapping your hauler for a combat ship to wreck them with.

Simple answer being, don't shoot suspects if there's an orca around.


or bait the bait and have your own gang warp in :3

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#17 - 2013-12-17 20:23:59 UTC
I'm not particularly into it. Is it possible to switch ships or board a ship with a weapons timer? I would be in favor of getting rid of that. Everything else has broader consequences/inconveniences. As for the orca-switch tactic, I think its pretty stupid. But fixing it screws up other things

Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

that's subjective, you could equally argue that it's just emergent gameplay. I do have sympathy with your points but in a high tech universe like EVE I have no problem with being able to instantly connect to and control different ships via your universal pod interface.


Not all emergent gameplay is good. Exploits are also emergent. Some are deemed good for the system and become part of the game, others are appropriately quashed.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#18 - 2013-12-17 20:26:49 UTC
Batelle wrote:
I'm not particularly into it. Is it possible to switch ships or board a ship with a weapons timer? I would be in favor of getting rid of that. Everything else has broader consequences/inconveniences. As for the orca-switch tactic, I think its pretty stupid. But fixing it screws up other things

Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

that's subjective, you could equally argue that it's just emergent gameplay. I do have sympathy with your points but in a high tech universe like EVE I have no problem with being able to instantly connect to and control different ships via your universal pod interface.


Not all emergent gameplay is good. Exploits are also emergent. Some are deemed good for the system and become part of the game, others are appropriately quashed.


You cannot board a ship when you have a weapons timer.
Khoul Ay'd
The Affiliation
#19 - 2013-12-17 20:28:25 UTC
And the simple counter to this nerf... Orca pilot launches ship X, ship pilot boards ship X in space, Orca pilot scoops ship Y. Voila! nerf defeatedRoll

The things we do today we must live with forever.... Think about it
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#20 - 2013-12-17 20:32:55 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Batelle wrote:
I'm not particularly into it. Is it possible to switch ships or board a ship with a weapons timer? I would be in favor of getting rid of that. Everything else has broader consequences/inconveniences. As for the orca-switch tactic, I think its pretty stupid. But fixing it screws up other things

Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

that's subjective, you could equally argue that it's just emergent gameplay. I do have sympathy with your points but in a high tech universe like EVE I have no problem with being able to instantly connect to and control different ships via your universal pod interface.


Not all emergent gameplay is good. Exploits are also emergent. Some are deemed good for the system and become part of the game, others are appropriately quashed.


You cannot board a ship when you have a weapons timer.


Thanks for clearing that up, you can see I don't deal with orca-switching-bait-bs often, thank god. Wouldn't it be the case then that if you agress a mission thief, you would not be tackled until the switch happens, which (should) give you plenty of time to warp out, especially if you're in deadspace?

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
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