These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Permanent fix to a long standing problem: Node crashing

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#61 - 2013-12-16 17:35:49 UTC
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo wrote:
The only! Only people that benefit from the current state of Null Sec/ large blog node crashing , tidi making fleet fights are the few people receiving there income from the carebear renter income.
Actually, no-one benefits from nodes crashing. Still, that's a better state of affairs than ensuring that any single group does benefit from a solution that automatically makes them unassailable.

Quote:
CCP please regain control of your game fix null/ stop people from crashing the game. Open up Null to more people.
And how do you propose they do that? (No, making sure people can't get into null — which is what you've been proposing so far — doesn't do that).
Ivain Freir
Archetype Industries
#62 - 2013-12-16 17:38:26 UTC
Onictus wrote:
That solution also means porting to a multithread capable. May as well call that Eve2.

The server code is not multithread capable ? This is far too big to be believed !
Honestly, are you serious ?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-12-16 17:39:24 UTC
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo wrote:
The only! Only people that benefit from the current state of Null Sec/ large blog node crashing , tidi making fleet fights are the few people receiving there income from the carebear renter income. These are the only ones. If its fights you are really looking for you would like so many already have create an alt and put him in BNI. CCP please regain control of your game fix null/ stop people from crashing the game. Open up Null to more people. The Zerg is broken.



SO your solution is to allow us to lock out the junctions in?

You DO understand that we could permanently lock out the systems into a region right? No Titan, no BLOPs or no Cyno you aren't getting in.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-12-16 17:40:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Ivain Freir wrote:
Onictus wrote:
That solution also means porting to a multithread capable. May as well call that Eve2.

The server code is not multithread capable ? This is far too big to be believed !
Honestly, are you serious ?


http://www.jeffknupp.com/blog/2012/03/31/pythons-hardest-problem/

Its not hardware CCP has some of the best enterprise level server hardware on the market. But remember the code it 10 years old, so there are some things that are best not screwed with.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#65 - 2013-12-16 17:42:03 UTC
Ivain Freir wrote:
The server code is not multithread capable ? This is far too big to be believed !
Honestly, are you serious ?
Largely, yes. The actual world simulation is single-threaded and system-wide. They have some things in the works for lifting out certain tasks and putting them on dedicated servers (search for “brain in a box” for instance), but right now, that is the main reason why just throwing more money hardware on the problem doesn't solve anything.
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-12-16 17:46:50 UTC
All of these statements about being able to lock out people from a system/node are already in place. They happen everyday.
There is not 1 person not 1 that can say that Tidi is a fix/ that Null is not broken. The game will never let me repeat this. Never be able to have the large scale fleet fights that everyone thinks happens. The hardware/ software will not allow it.

Everyone complains about Null being broken. its really a simple fix. Limit the number of people in one system.
Again the only people that benefit from these large null alliances are the few at the top who make there ISK on renter income.
The limit is already here we just have to put up with the node crashing to see it/ tidi.
Why is it so hard for you to see it?
Anslo
Scope Works
#67 - 2013-12-16 17:49:39 UTC
Why are you all replying to a guy who blocks anyone who doesn't agree with him and just repeats unfactual assumptions to bump his own posts??

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#68 - 2013-12-16 17:52:39 UTC
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo wrote:
All of these statements about being able to lock out people from a system/node are already in place.
…except, of course, that you can't really do that at the moment. At most, you can pile people in until the node crashes, at which point both sides lose (as opposed to your idea, where one side is automatically win and is given free reign to do whatever they want).

Quote:
There is not 1 person not 1 that can say that Tidi is a fix/ that Null is not broken.
Tidi most certainly is a fix, and anyone who knows what it's a fix for will tell you this. The problem is that you think it's a fix for some kind of brokenness in null (that you haven't really described in any detail).

Quote:
Everyone complains about Null being broken. its really a simple fix. Limit the number of people in one system.
…which breaks things rather than fix them, and since you haven't described what kind of null-breakage you're trying to fix, it's not a solution to that either. The only ones who would benefit from your idea of breaking the game are the large alliances that can trivially lock up a system and preclude any fighting from ever happening.

Quote:
Why is it so hard for you to see it?
Because your claims have no basis in reality.
Qweasdy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2013-12-16 17:55:58 UTC
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo wrote:
All of these statements about being able to lock out people from a system/node are already in place. They happen everyday.
There is not 1 person not 1 that can say that Tidi is a fix/ that Null is not broken. The game will never let me repeat this. Never be able to have the large scale fleet fights that everyone thinks happens. The hardware/ software will not allow it.

Everyone complains about Null being broken. its really a simple fix. Limit the number of people in one system.
Again the only people that benefit from these large null alliances are the few at the top who make there ISK on renter income.
The limit is already here we just have to put up with the node crashing to see it/ tidi.
Why is it so hard for you to see it?


Tidi is a fix for black screen fighting/null is not broken, so add 1 to the list of people who could say that. Honestly I think OP is trolling and he's doing it successfully.

The problem lies with the server code, what CCP need to be doing now is looking at what they can slice off the main physics threads or come up with a way to separate different grids on to multiple threads. The problem is that if you slice off bits of the physics thread there could be things which happen in the wrong order/at the same time and interfere with each other and resulting in the weirdest and most borken bugs you can imagine. A titan DD'ing a carrier and the damage getting ignored because another carrier repped it at that exact moment for example.

This is a terrible thread. As such, it's locked. - CCP Falcon
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-12-16 18:03:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo
I can understand that why certain people would want to keep the current state of Null "business as usual'.

After all if I were making Billions of ISK a month :) I would not want that to stop. But for 99% of the players in Null they know the real truth that is for the most part empty.

Again the game in its current state is already limiting the number of players in a system/node before it crashes/ tidi kicks in.
The large alliance already control there space so nothing would stop that from happening.
Don't try and sell the idea that one Alliance or other would have a huge advantage over the other if the systems were limited to a number of pilots.

How many large Null alliances lost SOV due to huge fleet fights ? How many ? so your point is invalid.


CCP will never rewrite the "Code"
There will never be no Tidi/ node crash
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#71 - 2013-12-16 18:06:43 UTC
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo wrote:
I can understand that why certain people would want to keep the current state of Null "business as usual'.
So you understand why your idea is bad then.

Quote:
Again the game in its current state is already limiting the number of players
Repeating this idiotic nonsense will not make it true.

Quote:
Don't try and sell the idea that one Alliance or other would have a huge advantage over the other if the systems were limited to a number of pilots.
Why not? Is it because you don't want your nonsense subjected to reality?

Quote:
How many large Null alliances lost SOV due to huge fleet fights ? How many ? so your point is invalid.
So you're saying that your that argument that it would let more people into null is invalid? Well… that's a break-through, I suppose.
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-12-16 18:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo
How many people are allowed into Jita ? Oh Jita has its on Server btw. How many ?
If Jita is limited to a set number of players why is this not good for Null Sec/ low?


For anyone trying to understand what I am saying its simple really.
The game can only handle so much b4 tidi/crash set up.
Null is broken only people really living the dream are a select few.
By limiting the number of players into a system you make the largest alliances camp there systems if they want it bad enough.
There would not be any Crashes in game.
The amount of tidi would be set then.
More people could have a chance at having Sov in Null.



There already a set number of players that the game can handle in a system. ( Jita ) which has its own server


The game being sold as open world single server Massive/ large scale fleet fights is False.

But we could have a game with large scale fleet fights w/o crashing the node.

But for the small few making billions of ISK from there renter income I can totally understand you not seeing this
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-12-16 18:20:04 UTC
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo wrote:
How many people are allowed into Jita ? Oh Jita has its on Server btw. How many ?
If Jita is limited to a set number of players why is this not good for Null Sec/ low?




Because Jita 4m4 ISN'T A CONQUERABLE STATION nitwit.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2013-12-16 18:21:57 UTC
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo wrote:
How many people are allowed into Jita ?
It varies.

Quote:
If Jita is limited to a set number of players why is this not good for Null Sec/ low?
Because what happens in Jita doesn't actually necessitate a presence in Jita, and because it's not a static situation where two sides compete for area supremacy.

Quote:
Null is broken only people really living the dream are a select few.
How is it broken?

Quote:
By limiting the number of players into a system you make the largest alliances camp there systems if they want it bad enough.
…which means that there would no no chance of more people ever having sov in null, since they would never be able to take any systems — the owners would just outblob them and be mechanically protected from any kind of loss.

Quote:
The game being sold as open world single server Massive/ large scale fleet fights is False.
…except, of course, that none of it is wrong. It is an open world, it is a single server, and massive/large-scale fleet fights happen with some regularity. So what's false about it (aside from your incorrect assertion that Jita has its own server)?
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-12-16 18:26:23 UTC
Limit the number of People to a system.

No more tidi/crash

Keeps the large alliances either in there home system camping or out camping looking for more space

Breaks up the renter empire


There is already a limit on the number of players in a system. Once that number is reached Tidi
and a node/system crash.
the only people able to do this atm are the largest of Eve's corps/alliances

This would fix a lot of that
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#76 - 2013-12-16 18:30:49 UTC
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo wrote:
First off every Null Sec alliance is hard pressed to get 200 or more people to log in.
And in its current state the zerg is broken. You can not have many more than that atm w/o breaking the game. So your point is invalid.
By limiting the number of people it will make everyone in Null change there game play yes but will it break the game? No, cause people have to play different Yes.


This just in, 1800+ player fight in DE- yesterday.

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#77 - 2013-12-16 18:32:05 UTC
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo wrote:
Limit the number of People to a system.
No more tidi/crash
…which isn't a valid trade for what's lost by doing so.

Quote:
Keeps the large alliances either in there home system camping or out camping looking for more space
It also keeps new entities from ever being able to take space, since the existing large coalitions can always trivially outnumber them.

Quote:
There is already a limit on the number of players in a system.
Not in the way you're proposing, no.
There's a difference between piling people into a system until it crashes and both sides lose, and piling people into a system until it's poplocked, and whoever got there first automatically wins.

Quote:
This would fix a lot of that
It wouldn't fix any of that. It would only cement the things you claim are bad.
Gary Bell
Therapy.
The Initiative.
#78 - 2013-12-16 18:34:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Gary Bell
I like how null is supposed to be the minority.. We make up what half.. prob more then half including alts of the playerbase.. so we dont matter..

I also like the part where people crash the node cuz they win? derp no

Lets see what else from this guy makes me laugh.. Limit number of people in a system.. SO there is literally no way to take sov? It is already nearly impossible as we have a 300 man carrier fleet on everything able to move across eve in 10 minutes.. So how would that work? Please give me a play by play on how these fights would happen?

Also someone somewhere is RMT grrr blah grrr blah

Oh.. Few billions lol try trillions silly pleb..

Heres another good one.. THERE IS NO PLAYER CAP THERE IS A SERVER LOAD CAP.. If we are all using guns we can cram like 2k people or more in a system.. the issue is 350 ships launching 10 drones each and 300 ships launching 5 drones each which the server has to account for in the form of models in space on overviews taking damage.. etc.. Your understanding of DEM DER COMPUTERS IS A LITTLE SLOW

If you think a population cap wont be abused lol YEAH RIGHT

No one else would get into null because the same 5k man alliance can JC and move alts everywhere so you cant capture anything ever.. Some idea lets look.. most null players have say 2-3 accounts... larger blocks say have 3.5k active actual people so.. that means 10.5k actual characters.. at a what 1k cap per system that is 10 systems perma blocked say with movement can prob perma block 15 ish..

Now a little further into that for the challenged and slow.. YOUR NEVER GONNA LOOSE ANYSHIPS!! So why not have 6 accounts or 8? Easily plexed if your not dying in fleet fights.. Hell the 3 jillion isk being passed around from renters would cover alot of that cost.. why not have a fee payed out by alliance to members to keep 3 extra accounts active.. Now you have what 10? so that what 100 stations perma blocked.. all you do is login and move toons around every so often.. Seems like a fun time in null..

CANT WAIT!!
Tuggboat
Oneida Inc.
#79 - 2013-12-16 18:39:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuggboat
I'd refine this idea. Instead of just count, I would assign each ship a point value relative to its server load under actual conditions rather than static projections and then limit total points allowed in system. Then instead of capping it at a hard value I would let it slide with TIdi so that it can adjust for future hardware changes and it would be on a curve instead of a direct relationship.

I would not publish the algorithm or ship scoring and would purposely use a function that would be hard to deduce so that just simple loading experiments wouldn't yield good values for years. THe function could even have a small random element to it. If they can log and hold a thousand archons in a system 24/7, I say its allright to allow that alliance to continue to hold it. If they can put up 30000 archons they can hold 30 systems, if they have to log on frigates, then they have to logon a 100000 Maybe tomorrow they need 120000. This will be good for CCP revenue while holding down hardware and software expenses and increase subscriber counts making the game seem even more popular.
flakeys
Doomheim
#80 - 2013-12-16 18:40:04 UTC
Mr Sniggle-Worth Onzo wrote:
If limiting the number of players is good enough for Jita why is it not good enough for low/null sec?



Comparing timers and 8 hour battles with going to a market to buy some ships because they are 2 mille cheaper then the next door system? RollRollRollRoll

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.