These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Permanent fix to a long standing problem: Node crashing

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Pipa Porto
#281 - 2013-12-20 05:15:28 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ok, so how do you tie down a defensive force that ends up not being faced with an attacking force? Also, how do you make it fun for the people being so tied?


RL ties forces down by various physical limitations, and makes it fun for them by the simple expedient of not being shot at being inherently more fun than being shot at.


It's not gonna be fun to be trapped but as long as committing your forces is meaningless on a strategical point, all the fight will end up being a gigantic TiDi hell because the best strat will always be to mass all you can on the focal point of the fight.

This kind of change is of course only to be persued if people want to change the way it currently work. If people are more happy with 10% tidi fights, then there is no point to change the system.


Fine, we'll ignore that making people engage in unengaging, unfun gameplay is like number one on the "Never ******* do this" list of basic game design:

So how do you change the way it works in order to tie down the defensive force?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#282 - 2013-12-20 05:30:05 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ok, so how do you tie down a defensive force that ends up not being faced with an attacking force? Also, how do you make it fun for the people being so tied?


RL ties forces down by various physical limitations, and makes it fun for them by the simple expedient of not being shot at being inherently more fun than being shot at.


It's not gonna be fun to be trapped but as long as committing your forces is meaningless on a strategical point, all the fight will end up being a gigantic TiDi hell because the best strat will always be to mass all you can on the focal point of the fight.

This kind of change is of course only to be persued if people want to change the way it currently work. If people are more happy with 10% tidi fights, then there is no point to change the system.


Fine, we'll ignore that making people engage in unengaging, unfun gameplay is like number one on the "Never ******* do this" list of basic game design:

So how do you change the way it works in order to tie down the defensive force?


How about an anchorable unit with a rather short reinforce timer? Whoever want to get out shoots it and people who want to keep the trap up can rep it. It has a reinforce timer to prevent blobbing it with all your force from being optimal. Both side are of course locked while it's in system and un-anchoring it require as much time as the reinforce timer to make sure the side using it cannot just bail out of it.

They can put the reinforced timer as short as 5 minutes if they want but at least a little bit more would be preferable so the trap is at least trapping people for some time. You can't install a new one in system for at least 1 hour after one has been removed to prevent trap spamming. The trap module also spawn a beacon so you don't have to look for it much.
Pipa Porto
#283 - 2013-12-20 05:52:40 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How about an anchorable unit with a rather short reinforce timer? Whoever want to get out shoots it and people who want to keep the trap up can rep it. It has a reinforce timer to prevent blobbing it with all your force from being optimal. Both side are of course locked while it's in system and un-anchoring it require as much time as the reinforce timer to make sure the side using it cannot just bail out of it.

They can put the reinforced timer as short as 5 minutes if they want but at least a little bit more would be preferable so the trap is at least trapping people for some time. You can't install a new one in system for at least 1 hour after one has been removed to prevent trap spamming. The trap module also spawn a beacon so you don't have to look for it much.



So.... I find a staging system, launch this, and nobody from there gets to join the fight?

This encourages sending one guy to your enemy's staging system with one of these set to the longest possible RF timer. While they're stuck, you do whatever it is you need to do. 5 minutes is more than long enough to knock things down if you know you'll go unopposed.

How does something that allows one guy to render a fleet irrelevant to a fight encourage anyone to split forces the way you're aiming to encourage?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#284 - 2013-12-20 06:03:07 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How about an anchorable unit with a rather short reinforce timer? Whoever want to get out shoots it and people who want to keep the trap up can rep it. It has a reinforce timer to prevent blobbing it with all your force from being optimal. Both side are of course locked while it's in system and un-anchoring it require as much time as the reinforce timer to make sure the side using it cannot just bail out of it.

They can put the reinforced timer as short as 5 minutes if they want but at least a little bit more would be preferable so the trap is at least trapping people for some time. You can't install a new one in system for at least 1 hour after one has been removed to prevent trap spamming. The trap module also spawn a beacon so you don't have to look for it much.



So.... I find a staging system, launch this, and nobody from there gets to join the fight?

This encourages sending one guy to your enemy's staging system with one of these set to the longest possible RF timer. While they're stuck, you do whatever it is you need to do. 5 minutes is more than long enough to knock things down if you know you'll go unopposed.

How does something that allows one guy to render a fleet irrelevant to a fight encourage anyone to split forces the way you're aiming to encourage?

ooo SNAP

caught

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#285 - 2013-12-20 08:41:44 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How about an anchorable unit with a rather short reinforce timer? Whoever want to get out shoots it and people who want to keep the trap up can rep it. It has a reinforce timer to prevent blobbing it with all your force from being optimal. Both side are of course locked while it's in system and un-anchoring it require as much time as the reinforce timer to make sure the side using it cannot just bail out of it.

They can put the reinforced timer as short as 5 minutes if they want but at least a little bit more would be preferable so the trap is at least trapping people for some time. You can't install a new one in system for at least 1 hour after one has been removed to prevent trap spamming. The trap module also spawn a beacon so you don't have to look for it much.



So.... I find a staging system, launch this, and nobody from there gets to join the fight?

This encourages sending one guy to your enemy's staging system with one of these set to the longest possible RF timer. While they're stuck, you do whatever it is you need to do. 5 minutes is more than long enough to knock things down if you know you'll go unopposed.

How does something that allows one guy to render a fleet irrelevant to a fight encourage anyone to split forces the way you're aiming to encourage?


What if you didn't put all your eggs in the same basket? What if you used a "firewall" of those ahead of your staging systems with scouts to counter potential attack like that?
Pipa Porto
#286 - 2013-12-20 08:49:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
What if you didn't put all your eggs in the same basket? What if you used a "firewall" of those ahead of your staging systems with scouts to counter potential attack like that?


What's this "firewall", and how does it stop your staging system(s)'s resident neutral/hostile eyes from decloaking and pressing the anchor button on this thing?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#287 - 2013-12-20 08:59:27 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
What if you didn't put all your eggs in the same basket? What if you used a "firewall" of those ahead of your staging systems with scouts to counter potential attack like that?


What's this "firewall", and how does it stop your staging system(s)'s resident neutral/hostile eyes from decloaking and pressing the anchor button on this thing?


The firewall would be a wall of system ahead of your where you deploy the units preventing new people from getting in. If you had neut/hostile in your staging, then you have the same defense as if it was a cyno alt. You deal with it or stage elsewhere. You could also form up early to force the deployment early or have at least part of your force out of system if the trap is sprung.
Pipa Porto
#288 - 2013-12-20 09:22:31 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The firewall would be a wall of system ahead of your where you deploy the units preventing new people from getting in. If you had neut/hostile in your staging, then you have the same defense as if it was a cyno alt. You deal with it or stage elsewhere. You could also form up early to force the deployment early or have at least part of your force out of system if the trap is sprung.


What's this firewall meant to do? Nobody's moving through these systems, unless they don't have a Titan available (so this is one way that this is a nerf to any possibility of new groups joining the party in any meaningful way).

Cyno alts, you can shoot what comes through. This thing is a magic "sit out the fight" button.
There's a neutral/hostile set of eyes in any system that you choose as a staging system. It's part of the standard staging system upgrade package.

The timers are fixed. How does forming early change the fact that one side only has to spend one person to trap your fleet wherever? How does this in any way encourage splitting your fleets?

You have absolutely no idea how a sov war works, do you?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#289 - 2013-12-20 09:43:51 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The firewall would be a wall of system ahead of your where you deploy the units preventing new people from getting in. If you had neut/hostile in your staging, then you have the same defense as if it was a cyno alt. You deal with it or stage elsewhere. You could also form up early to force the deployment early or have at least part of your force out of system if the trap is sprung.


What's this firewall meant to do? Nobody's moving through these systems, unless they don't have a Titan available (so this is one way that this is a nerf to any possibility of new groups joining the party in any meaningful way).

Cyno alts, you can shoot what comes through. This thing is a magic "sit out the fight" button.
There's a neutral/hostile set of eyes in any system that you choose as a staging system. It's part of the standard staging system upgrade package.

The timers are fixed. How does forming early change the fact that one side only has to spend one person to trap your fleet wherever? How does this in any way encourage splitting your fleets?

You have absolutely no idea how a sov war works, do you?


Timers being fixed does not mean you can't be in early to prevent your enemy from trapping you out of the system. You could go in early as the attacker with units on board in a few system. The defensive side has to either drop the hammer on one attacking fleet and hope no trap will be sprung of send just enough force to repel the attack in this system. Same for all the other attacked systems.