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CCP layoffs

Author
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#81 - 2013-12-13 00:05:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lors Dornick
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:

It wasn't in fashion when CCP started developing it. World of Darkness is a huge franchise, based off a pen and paper game much in the same way that Dungeons and Dragons games are. In fact, if you had to ask people for two Pen and Paper franchises off the top of their head it would be "Dungeons and Dragons" and "World of Darkness", probably in that order... Fall out may make it in between those two.. not sure.

Now if you had to ask people about a single Pen and Paper franchise most people would just look confused and then evaluated if you where dangerous to their person or just a bit strange.

Those who know about one would state D'n'D and the majority would recall it as a fad back in the eighties known for the rumours related to satanism and teenagers committing suicide.

I know WoD, and I've played various variants for many years.

But calling it a "huge franschise" is just ridiculous ...

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2013-12-13 00:42:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Lors Dornick wrote:
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:

It wasn't in fashion when CCP started developing it. World of Darkness is a huge franchise, based off a pen and paper game much in the same way that Dungeons and Dragons games are. In fact, if you had to ask people for two Pen and Paper franchises off the top of their head it would be "Dungeons and Dragons" and "World of Darkness", probably in that order... Fall out may make it in between those two.. not sure.

Now if you had to ask people about a single Pen and Paper franchise most people would just look confused and then evaluated if you where dangerous to their person or just a bit strange.

Those who know about one would state D'n'D and the majority would recall it as a fad back in the eighties known for the rumours related to satanism and teenagers committing suicide.

I know WoD, and I've played various variants for many years.

But calling it a "huge franschise" is just ridiculous ...


The heyday of D&D in terms of player participation was actually more the early 2000s.

The in the mid 2000s WoC dropped the ball with 4th Edition D&D (Devs ignoring player advice and sticking to their own vision) which crashed and burned badly.

The playerbase moved wholesale to what was basically a 3rd Edition D&D system known as Pathfinder.

Now ... here is the interesting bit. Pathfinder is being developed as an online MMORPG which pretty much is using the EVE skill and training system with a few minor tweaks. There are minor differences for example if your skill queue is empty the points just accumulate for you to use late.

Pathfinder Online will basically be EVE in a D&D/fantasy setting, but is not being developed by CCP at all:

https://goblinworks.com/
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/licensees/pathfinderOnline
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#83 - 2013-12-13 01:08:40 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:

The heyday of D&D in terms of player participation was actually more the early 2000s.

The in the mid 2000s WoC dropped the ball with 4th Edition D&D (Devs ignoring player advice and sticking to their own vision) which crashed and burned badly.

The playerbase moved wholesale to what was basically a 3rd Edition D&D system known as Pathfinder.

You are missing my point.

The number of people who have any idea of what D&D is, much less any idea of the editions and of other companies involved are a very small group of people.

A very nice group of people, and dare I even say a very smart and intelligent group of people (at least that's how we like to see ourself).

But still a very limited market ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Hehaw Jimbojohnson
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#84 - 2013-12-13 01:41:28 UTC
While layoffs of any kind really suck and I feel bad for those affected....I sure hope any layoffs were strictly on the DUST side. That game is a spiraling failure, if they have to make budget cuts, it should be there.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#85 - 2013-12-13 02:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Lors Dornick wrote:
You are missing my point.

The number of people who have any idea of what D&D is, much less any idea of the editions and of other companies involved are a very small group of people.

A very nice group of people, and dare I even say a very smart and intelligent group of people (at least that's how we like to see ourself).

But still a very limited market ;)
…so, much like Warcraft, then. Blink
Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-12-13 02:23:58 UTC
When you waste millions of $$$ on a game that doesn't even compete with the original Halo alpha version this is what happens. When you let assholes dictate EVERY aspect of the game in the game this is what happens. When you bring in EA guy, this is what happens.

CCP. Here is some pro advice. Focus on EVE. Bring the hammer down on hisec gankers who luv to masquerade as 'pro-pvpers' while committing acts of non-consensual pvp. Make them have REAL consequences. Take 2 ******* guns off of the Catalyst.

I've been calling for REAL consequences for years while warning of this exact thing.

Make sovereignty mean something more than playing virtual hotel manager.

Fix lag ffs.

Let the dicks run New Eden and CCP will not exist much longer. You can go back to creating lame board games like whatever the hell that one's called that came with the ridiculously overpriced 10-year pack.

It's not too late to correct course. But your time is limited.
Skill Training Online
Doomheim
#87 - 2013-12-13 02:26:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Skill Training Online
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:


You seem to have short term memory loss, the universe now exists in 3 dimensions, you warp directly to the star gates in-game, the V3 was completed on the entire series which was a larger project than even Trinity.

You forgot the faction Super carrier, the massive PVE content required to create it, and it's fighters.

You forgot to mention the complete overhaul of every exploration site.

You forgot to mention the exploration system redesign.

You forgot to mention the removal of RMT. (Almost Entirely)

You forgot to mention the removal of Botting (Almost Entirely)

You forgot to mention the hundreds of ships that were not useful balanced back into the meta.

You forgot the revolutionary creation of time dilation.

You forgot Planetary Interaction

You forgot POCOs

You forgot Dust514 integration.

YOU FORGOT DUST514... another LINKED game with hundreds of hours of game play.

YOU FORGOT 6VDT, NEVER FORGET!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9x8eYjUQzg
"This is a good death, there is no shame in this"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w3JRz4Q8ME

You have massive short-term memory loss. The Good old days were good, but CCP has been loyal to it's customers for years now (July 2011, we are well past July 2013).


The Goold Old Days have come again, EVE's second decade is looking at least as revolutionary as it's first.
Watch the CCPgames channel, and I DARE YOU to tell me there is no content:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CCPGAMES

Thank You Obama!

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#88 - 2013-12-13 02:27:42 UTC
Tippia wrote:

so, much like Warcraft, then. Blink

And how many of the people who are playing warcraft has any idea of the pen and paper game behind it? ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-12-13 03:03:19 UTC
Desimus Maximus wrote:

CCP. Here is some pro advice. Focus on EVE. Bring the hammer down on hisec gankers who luv to masquerade as 'pro-pvpers' while committing acts of non-consensual pvp. Make them have REAL consequences. Take 2 ******* guns off of the Catalyst.


We'll just bring more catas mate. We adapt. We survive. You die. You cry.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#90 - 2013-12-13 03:09:00 UTC
I think you need to read that article. WoD and DUST. 15 people.

Dust is still no bueno (I think)... think I'll log in tonight and see what the new update had in it.

EvE is actually looking like it's back on track, imho. We'll see but Rubicon was the best since Apocrypha imho. I don't think an "EvE is dieing" thread really fits atm. Things are going pretty well...

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Casanunda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2013-12-13 03:58:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Casanunda
Desimus Maximus wrote:
When you waste millions of $$$ on a game that doesn't even compete with the original Halo alpha version this is what happens. When you let assholes dictate EVERY aspect of the game in the game this is what happens. When you bring in EA guy, this is what happens.

CCP. Here is some pro advice. Focus on EVE. Bring the hammer down on hisec gankers who luv to masquerade as 'pro-pvpers' while committing acts of non-consensual pvp. Make them have REAL consequences. Take 2 ******* guns off of the Catalyst.
Who are the arseholes and where have they dictated every aspect of the game? The EA guy was brought in because CCP felt that he fitted a position they had available, now I don't like EA, they've ruined many a good franchise but to tar all of their ex-employees with their rightly deserved reputation is a bit harsh.

If you're giving out "pro" advice you really should establish your credentials first, without them you're just another idiot with what are probably terrible ideas.

As for the Catalysts, sure remove two guns, where people used to bring 3 they'll bring 4, and things will still die to them.

Quote:
I've been calling for REAL consequences for years while warning of this exact thing.

Make sovereignty mean something more than playing virtual hotel manager.

Fix lag ffs.
Please do give us your input on what real consequences should be, the guys at CCP are getting paid to develop the game, I'm pretty sure that they're better at doing so than you are, as evidenced by their employment at CCP.

Sov is borked, CCP know it and have stated in the past that it is on the agenda to fix, the Sov landlords know it and are doing what they can with a toolbox that's half empty.

Lag is a side effect of having thousands of players on the same server, CCP introduced TiDi to compensate for some of it and there's probably more in the pipeline. It's not a problem that is unique to Eve, many games suffer lag.

Quote:
Let the dicks run New Eden and CCP will not exist much longer. You can go back to creating lame board games like whatever the hell that one's called that came with the ridiculously overpriced 10-year pack.

It's not too late to correct course. But your time is limited.
CCP and Eve have been around for 10 years, while catering to the people you call "dicks", subs have grown year on year with only the occasional hiccup. Think about that, 10 years of continuous growth, most MMO's spike initially then die or go f2p/p2w within 2 years, CCP are obviously doing something right.

That lame board game that came with the collectors edition? That financed the initial development of Eve, without it you wouldn't be spewing your crap all over the forums.

What course do you recommend? I'm sure the people at CCP who direct such things will be happy to listen to your "pro" advice, and hopefully file it under G for garbage.

When you eventually quit, I'll be happy to handle the reallocation of your stuff.

The fact that I am not a gazillionaire Gallente aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#92 - 2013-12-13 14:51:42 UTC
Skill Training Online wrote:

You seem to have short term memory loss, the universe now exists in 3 dimensions, you warp directly to the star gates in-game


Which the players were doing before using bookmarks. Not new content.


Skill Training Online wrote:

You forgot the faction Super carrier, the massive PVE content required to create it, and it's fighters.


Granted, I did forget this ship, which no one in their right mind uses and there are very few of in game.

Skill Training Online wrote:

You forgot to mention the complete overhaul of every exploration site.

You forgot to mention the exploration system redesign.

You forgot to mention the hundreds of ships that were not useful balanced back into the meta.

You forgot the revolutionary creation of time dilation.


Fixes and a new UI are not 'new content'.

Skill Training Online wrote:

You forgot to mention the removal of RMT. (Almost Entirely)

You forgot to mention the removal of Botting (Almost Entirely)


Neither of which are content, and neither of which are actually true.

Skill Training Online wrote:

You forgot Planetary Interaction

You forgot POCOs

You forgot Dust514 integration.

YOU FORGOT DUST514... another LINKED game with hundreds of hours of game play.


I'll be honest, I've never really seen PI as adding anything to the game. It's less 'content' than it is a additional 'money sink' on items we used to get without it, cheaper. Pocos were a ham handed attempt to try and generate PvP around PI, but frankly other than ones owned by goonswarm, I can count the number of pocos in reinforced mode I've seen on 1 hand.

Dust is not eve content. Dust is Dust content.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#93 - 2013-12-13 14:54:32 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Nothing I dislike or dont use is relevant

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#94 - 2013-12-13 18:25:56 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Pointless mischaracterization of a post


Actually I both like and use quite a few of those things. But they're not new content, which was what he was talking about. The last five expansions he brought up have actually been very, very light on new content, compared to previous expansions, and were in fact focused on rebalancing existing content.

The last expansion we had a serious effort at entirely new content was Incarna, and we all saw how that turned out.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#95 - 2013-12-13 18:31:30 UTC
I saw the title of this thread and thought "Oh, I better go an welcome the newest CCP employee. But isn't "CCP Layoffs" a weird choice of name"? Who is his cubicle mate, CCP unemploymentcheck?
Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#96 - 2013-12-13 18:39:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalmont Delantee
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Pointless mischaracterization of a post


Actually I both like and use quite a few of those things. But they're not new content, which was what he was talking about. The last five expansions he brought up have actually been very, very light on new content, compared to previous expansions, and were in fact focused on rebalancing existing content.

The last expansion we had a serious effort at entirely new content was Incarna, and we all saw how that turned out.


OK we all cried for fixes and CCP has done lots to fix all the broken stuff because they focused entirely on new content.

Now, you might notice, that CCP are continuing the fixes but bring in new content. The new personal yurts and stuff like that is a beginning of new things.

Personally I would have them bringing out little and often making sure what they bring out is balanced and works and not a hash together (like POS's are if you read up) so they can fix and add more things to the game.

Now I would love it that they stopped making expansions and re did the whole core of eve so it can fully use multitasking and multithreading and all the exciting stuff that means they will reduce lag etc...

This will not happen, this can't happen, they have to fix and add slowly.

This is where the 3 and 5 year plan comes in...

Does anyone watch the presentations, read dev blogs and interviews from the developers or are they just pissing in the wind?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#97 - 2013-12-13 18:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

Crucible: T2 rigs, New BCs
Inferno: Nada. Was almost entirely about reblancing and alterations.
Retribution: Four new Dessies and a frig
Odyssey: New Exploration sites, Navy BCs.
Rubicon: three new deployables, a rare new type of scan site, and two ships. Maybe 3 if they ever figure out the SoE BB.


trolltastic.

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Pointless mischaracterization of a post


Actually I both like and use quite a few of those things. But they're not new content, which was what he was talking about. The last five expansions he brought up have actually been very, very light on new content, compared to previous expansions, and were in fact focused on rebalancing existing content.

The last expansion we had a serious effort at entirely new content was Incarna, and we all saw how that turned out.


arguably true, but you need to keep in mind that for years players had asked CCP to stop with new jesus features and to instead focus on fixing and improving existing content. Which they did spectacularly. New content has come in smaller chunks among other major updates. As long as the game is getting better, I'm less concerned as to whether that comes in the form of new content or improving existing content.

Gogela wrote:
I think you need to read that article. WoD and DUST. 15 people.

Dust is still no bueno (I think)... think I'll log in tonight and see what the new update had in it.


Article says layoffs were just at Atlanta. The departure of Flying Scotsman is not necessarily a layoff.

Also, dust has made some serious strides in the last 6 months, both technically and content-wise. Get your accounts today and start accumulating that sweet passive SP. Evemail me if you want a referral link that gives you some bonus starter gear. Blink

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#98 - 2013-12-13 19:41:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Dalmont Delantee wrote:

Personally I would have them bringing out little and often making sure what they bring out is balanced and works and not a hash together (like POS's are if you read up) so they can fix and add more things to the game.


I'd put more stock in what you just wrote, but I spent the last two days unable to visit my POS without having eve crash my PC due to how the twitch integration interacted with my Nvida drivers. Now that they patched the patch of the patch, I can put more t2 on the barbie without having my display turn to smoldering goo. If my choice is between a little content that doesn't work, and a lot of content that doesn't work, I'll take the 'lot of content that doesn't work'.

At least that would be interesting.

Also, as one of the first users of POS, and the inventor of the original 'Death Star' POS configuration, I know quite well what a kludge POS are. I was around when most POS structures didn't actually do anything at all and POS tracking arrays let you attack targets off grid. And I might point out that I'd still take that over "We fixed seven thousand bugs, most of which would never have made it past testing, if we had tested them, and here's two ships. We'll be patching the bugs caused by our patches into the next fiscal quarter."

Dalmont Delantee wrote:

This is where the 3 and 5 year plan comes in...

Does anyone watch the presentations, read dev blogs and interviews from the developers or are they just pissing in the wind?


The problem is that so many of these over the years have turned out to be pie in the sky claims and utter BS they had no intention of carrying out, or exicuted so badly that in game riots have broken out. I'll remind you that most of eve was in favor of Walking in Station before CCP gave us Incarna.

Batelle wrote:
Which they did spectacularly.


I wish my PC had worked well enough to get some screen shots after the twitch integration to show you just how 'spectacularly' they have been doing.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#99 - 2013-12-14 02:12:53 UTC
Dang, and here I was hoping that they were laying off all of the CSMs ... well, except for that one EvEUni guy. He's cool.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2013-12-14 02:22:45 UTC
I imagine they were done with some aspects of the development process and let people go who no longer fit a necessary need. AKA concept artists, storyboard artists, etc.

Something clever