These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Sisters of EVE missions, 180m/hour in high sec, should we nerf it?

Author
HK -56
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#121 - 2013-12-15 20:27:12 UTC
Stabdealer Tichim wrote:
180m isk per hour, and in high-sec?

Checked the lp ratio of Stratios, which has been stabled at 3100:1, three times higher than major faction navy.


Stratios is only worth 615 ISK:LP. The virtue implants are much more valuable, but still nowhere near 180m isk per hour.

Bye.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#122 - 2013-12-15 20:35:02 UTC
HK -56 wrote:
Stabdealer Tichim wrote:
180m isk per hour, and in high-sec?

Checked the lp ratio of Stratios, which has been stabled at 3100:1, three times higher than major faction navy.


Stratios is only worth 615 ISK:LP. The virtue implants are much more valuable, but still nowhere near 180m isk per hour.

Bye.


Try the Stratios blueprint and then building the ship.
HK -56
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#123 - 2013-12-15 20:46:28 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Try the Stratios blueprint and then building the ship.


That's exactly what I'm doing. Double checked my numbers and the math; my point stands.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#124 - 2013-12-15 20:52:38 UTC
HK -56 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


Try the Stratios blueprint and then building the ship.


That's exactly what I'm doing. Double checked my numbers and the math; my point stands.


Stratios costs 10m to build, and has an ISK cost of 30m.

Stratios sells for ~415m.

415m - 30m - 10m = 375m profit

LP cost is 120,000

375m ISK / 120k LP = 3,125 ISK / LP

I have no idea where you got 600 ISK/ LP from.
HK -56
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#125 - 2013-12-15 20:57:56 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
I have no idea where you got 600 ISK/ LP from.


Pulling info from the wrong cells Oops

I stand corrected, the Stratios is worth 3015 ISK:LP assuming no industry skills beyond "Industry I" and buying mats at jita price.

*combs through other formulas*

Roll
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2013-12-15 22:50:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
You guys are doing this all wrong.

1. The relevant figure is not the total ISK per hour, it is how much extra do you get mission running for the sisters versus some other corp. Bearing in mind there are some down sides to sisters missions.

2. Reward/Bounty/loot should be more or less the same regardless of corp. Now lvl 4 reward/loot/bounty for a max LP good mission (scarlet/WC/AE etc), without blitzing, is generally somewhere between 40 and 70 mill.

3. The difference in ISK will come from trading the LP.

Assuming 0.5 systems and max skills the LP will be about 10K max per mission.
My Fed Navy agent selling +4 implants --> 8 mill
My sisters agent selling a Asteros --> 30 mill

sooo ....

THEREFORE --> Mission running for SOE means you will get a max of around 90 mill instead of 70 mill for a good level IV like Scarlet.

THE DOWNSIDE -->
Sisters systems are heavily ganked,
SOE faction standing and hence storylines are not really that useful nor is SOE corp standing.
The current LP/ISK ratio is player market driven and could crash.

CONCLUSION
Is it worthwhile doing sisters missions ? Hek yes .. (pun intended) .

Are they ridiculously high paying compared to normal missions bearing in mind gank risk and uselessness of the standing gain? Probably not.
Jill Chastot
Black Water Oasis
#127 - 2013-12-15 22:59:39 UTC
....

You can't nerf SOE mission payouts, The majority of the income from these missions is from the demand for the newly introduced Pirate faction ships.

CCP Can't/won't nerf market speculations and demand.

TLDR: SoE missions don't pay too much. People want to pay that much for the LP.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#128 - 2013-12-16 06:32:59 UTC
This is a short term phenomenon, until the Stratos demand falls as it will in time.

It's new, it's shiny, and there's a bunch of rich people that HAVE TO HAVE IT RIGHT NOW OMG!!!

One thing that does help address the risk/reward is going into Apanake or Osmon, and linking kills of mission bears over and over in local. This intimidates many of the carebears into flying less blinged fits, therefore reducing their rate of LP gain. I highly recommend it, especially if you have a couple of 2b+ mission bear kills to link.

If you can inflict additional losses, even better.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#129 - 2013-12-16 06:51:37 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
This is a short term phenomenon, until the Stratos demand falls as it will in time.

It's new, it's shiny, and there's a bunch of rich people that HAVE TO HAVE IT RIGHT NOW OMG!!!

One thing that does help address the risk/reward is going into Apanake or Osmon, and linking kills of mission bears over and over in local. This intimidates many of the carebears into flying less blinged fits, therefore reducing their rate of LP gain. I highly recommend it, especially if you have a couple of 2b+ mission bear kills to link.

If you can inflict additional losses, even better.


The probes and implants are not new and you can still earn more just by using a t2 fit.
Angry Mustache
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#130 - 2013-12-16 13:01:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Angry Mustache
Regarding the whole "risk vs reward" thing for Null vs High, i'll toss another anecdote into the mix, regarding Incursions.

Recently, an incursion took place in Dekelin, our home region. As the incursion was blocking some jump bridge routes, people decided to clear it out.

CCP "knew" that null/low incursions were more "risky", so they tacked on a 1.5x LP/ISK modifier to null/low incursions. Yet despite this modifier, we ended up making less isk than if we ran Highsec incursions, roughly 70-90 million isk/hour. Why is that?

1. (the fleet i tagged along with) The sites were run in "baltecfleet" Megathrons, with plates/some hardeners swapped out in favor of more damage mods, and more tracking in the mids. These ships could pull around 1100 DPS in Vangard configuration with drones, a far cry from almost 2000 by shiny incursion Vindicators. Tanks for these ships were completely tech 2, so there was more than 1 logistics needed.

2. Hostile were up an about, and even a handful of Gankers can completely ruin an incursion fleet, usually diving straight for logistics. This caused significant downtime in the fleet.

One might ask "you would make more than Highsec if you just stopped being pussies and used bling vindicators/machariels", but here's where return on investment kicks in.

Lets say a shiny vindicator, which might cost 2-3 billion isk, can provide 50% better DPS than a 250 million isk Megathron. Taking a simplified model, lets say this vindicator makes 50% better isk/site. Using vangards as a baseline, it would take roughly 275 sites to pay the price of this vindicator over a Megathron. What this means is, if the extra DPS provided can allow you to run 275 more sites in the same period of time than a Megathron, you've made up the vindicator premium and anything more is gravy.

Napkin math says this would be roughly 800 sites over the lifetime of the Vindicator to pay for itself over a Megathron. In highsec, running 800 sites in a Pirate Battleship is very possible. But what this also means is that if your Vindicator dies before you've run 800 sites, you just lost money. Now how likely is your vindicator to survive in Nullsec running 575 sites (accounting for the 50% bonus LP) without being ganked? How likely is your vindicator to survive being moved from one Incursion Constellation to the next in Nullsec travel? The greatly increased risk says if you want to run null/low incursions, you do it in unpimped T1 battleships, leading to less isk/hour over Highsec Incursions. Thus, nobody does them for money, and 90% of incursions are ignored. If the incursion is in the way, oversized fleets are used to blitz sites, spawn the mom early, and pop it ASAP.

An official Member of the Goonswarm Federation Complaints Department.

Sim Cognito
Obani Gemini Corporation
#131 - 2013-12-16 13:05:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sim Cognito
So? Flock to those agents, get your ISK, and the prices will drop naturally. What the hell did you expect to happen?


Ridiculous excuse of a thread. Looks like someone took "nerf highsec posts" to thread level.
Lukas Rox
Aideron Technologies
#132 - 2013-12-16 13:20:41 UTC
The supply for new ships (and prospective Nestor) is high, so these LP pay higher than usual. It will settle down eventually, so instead of whining, I recommend jumping into a L4 mission ship and make ISK while they last.

Proud developer of LMeve: Industry Contribution and Mass Production Tracker: https://github.com/roxlukas/lmeve | Blogging about EVE on http://pozniak.pl/wp/

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#133 - 2013-12-16 13:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
I don't know why some of you can't understand that this isn't a "gold rush". It may look like that, it may even be the case for some fair weather people who are just now learning of the SOE agents because of the ships. But the fact is the high sec SOE agents have always been spewing at least 2000+ isk/lp items for a long time. So long that some of us can remember SOE missioning in Gicodel (Dodixie area) before distribution agents stopped giving kill missions.


The items coming out of that LP store are consumables highly sought after by both pvp and pve players, it would take way WAY more people missioning for SOE to drive those prices down. I know, I just sold a metric crap ton of probes and launchers at prices HIGHER than I ever have before (because now instead of using LP for probes and launchers, people are using that LP for ship bpcs, making probes and launchers and virtue implants even more profitable).

And no one added anything items to the Thukker/Trust Partners LP store, yet those items are selling much better now too (mainly because some people who were doing trust partners missions are doing doing SOE missions getting the same mining hardwirings for less because, again, everyone is now using their sisters LP for other things).

The point of this is that , like the old Incursions, the old (frigless) forsaken hubs in null sec, the current FW farming with cheap invulnerable ships BS etc, what's happening with the SOE agents isn't something that is or even can fix itself.

The problem isn't the market it's a bad ccp design decision (allowing pirate ships to be available in high sec, which increases the value of non-pirate ship items in the SOE and Thukker/Trust Partner's lp stores) that needs to be fixed.

One potential fix is treating the other items like the ships (ie raising the lp costs of things like probes and virtue and nomad implants in high sec but leaving them the same in the low/null sec lp stores) .

Of course Ima farm the ever living hell out of it till they do like I did the old forsaken hubs and original incursions just because I can, but just because some broken thing is good for me personally , that doesn't mean I'm willing to lie about it's brokenness.
Gorenaire
Theosophical Society
#134 - 2013-12-16 13:33:13 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
We should NERF everything that is either:

A: Enjoyable
B: Profitable
C: Lacking Tears

That will create just the kind of game everyone wants to play.



Sadly, you're not far from the truth.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#135 - 2013-12-16 13:39:50 UTC
Gorenaire wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:
We should NERF everything that is either:

A: Enjoyable
B: Profitable
C: Lacking Tears

That will create just the kind of game everyone wants to play.



Sadly, you're not far from the truth.


Sadly it's hard to pry broken isk spewing things from the hands of greedy game players. It's no different from when CCP announced they were going to nerf incursions (they were ridiculous then) and people started saying "it's not about the isk, it's about the community).

A community that disintegrated the day after the incursion nerfs because all the mad isk went away.......

I guess it is all about the isk.
erg cz
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#136 - 2013-12-16 14:24:42 UTC
I started to do L4 missions recently and I think I am the one, who will prevent this nerf from happen. Cause I am doing 18 millions an hour, not 180. I am low in skills and every L4 mission is new for me. So I am learning slowly and if CCP is looking at average time / isk ratio before they nerf any activity, then ppl like me will surely help L4 high sec SOE missions stay as they are now ;))))
Onictus
SniggWaffe
Pandemic Horde
#137 - 2013-12-16 15:00:23 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:

THE DOWNSIDE -->
Sisters systems are heavily ganked,
SOE faction standing and hence storylines are not really that useful nor is SOE corp standing.
The current LP/ISK ratio is player market driven and could crash.

CONCLUSION
Is it worthwhile doing sisters missions ? Hek yes .. (pun intended) .

Are they ridiculously high paying compared to normal missions bearing in mind gank risk and uselessness of the standing gain? Probably not.



Watch your Gallente standing, every shipyard or exodus s +6% when you are running SOE stories.
Rekon X
Doomheim
#138 - 2013-12-16 15:27:37 UTC
If it's so good then why aren't you running SOE? It's your choice.

Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew

Onictus
SniggWaffe
Pandemic Horde
#139 - 2013-12-16 15:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Rekon X wrote:
If it's so good then why aren't you running SOE? It's your choice.



Wherever did you get the idea I'm not. Lol

erg cz wrote:
I started to do L4 missions recently and I think I am the one, who will prevent this nerf from happen. Cause I am doing 18 millions an hour, not 180. I am low in skills and every L4 mission is new for me. So I am learning slowly and if CCP is looking at average time / isk ratio before they nerf any activity, then ppl like me will surely help L4 high sec SOE missions stay as they are now ;))))


As your skills, and wallet fill in it gets a LOT faster. My first level 4s were like 2 hour affairs for a Blockade....LOTS of warping around and general screwing up.

You learn a lot of little tricks that make more level 4s mostly travel time.
Stabdealer Tichim
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2014-02-03 22:52:40 UTC
Nice to see CCP eventually start to nerf it