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Wormhole Defence Questions

Author
Torlock Deathlord
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-12-10 13:09:34 UTC
Hello there! We live in a C2 HS+C3 static hole and ive got a few questions. We have a bunch of plans in place in the event we are attacked. Id like to get your imput on how effefct they would be. And ive got a few general questions about Wh defence thanks.


1. What is a "**** cage"? Will hostil forces put bubbles around our POS and will that make it so we cant warp to/from it?

2.If you log in, inside the POS and they have put bubbles around it will you become suck outside? (in the bubbles)

3. Can you describe "hole control" to me






Our plans in event of attack

1. We have 10 fully fit black birds that would be used to bother anyone attacking in turret/missle based ships.

2. We have a bomber wing set up in case they use sentry doms/other slow stationary targets.

3. We have a bunch of T1 Logi ships to pop in and out of the POS shields to heal the guns then scoot back inside if attacked.



Thanks for any suggestions/tips and your answers. (posted with alt for obvious reasons) Blink
Caius Beriat
O'Coin Enterprises
#2 - 2013-12-10 13:22:05 UTC
If all that fails, hire a merc corp/alliance to come and defend your home. Some may even do it for free if there's a guaranteed fight.
Sith1s Spectre
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-12-10 13:34:49 UTC
1. The hostiles anchoring Large t2 mobile warp disruptors around your tower covering it in bubbles. This prevents most ships from warping back into the POS once leaving it.

2. No

3. Keeping a hole on the "verge of collapse" to reduce the amount of potential ships and pilots coming in. This is usually then camped by a fleet and bubbled.

4. 10 blackbirds will not stop a dedicated assault force due to overwhelming numbers

5. may work, but watch for ceptors

6. will help.

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant

Meytal
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-12-10 15:43:18 UTC
Hole control basically means making sure you control who enters and leaves the system. As mentioned, it will include identifying and closing non-static connections as soon as they spawn, and critting all static connections while keeping them bubbled with a protection fleet. The victim cannot get reinforcements in, as they don't know where the static leads, and they also cannot move assets out.

ECM can help; Falcons would be better thank Blackbirds. Looking at percentages, your response fleet is usually composed of many more ships relative to the numbers of ECM/Ewar ships. All Ewar, and you are easily driven off the field or destroyed.

If the hostile is fighting at your POS, you also have POS mods to help. Multiple characters with Starbase Defense skills that manually target and use the POS defenses can be devastating to a siege fleet, dramatically increasing the resources they need to commit. Instead of risking pilots on bombing runs, jam out their Logi and focus fire on sentry ships and you take out the source of the sentries, not just one or two drones.

With an actively-manned POS defense grid combined with a sizeable defense fleet, you will be a tough nut to crack.
Borsek
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2013-12-10 16:16:52 UTC
sith already answered most of your questions...

let me add that unless you have at least two bomber groups firing one after the other, bombers suck.

You want a batphone or enough ISK to hire defenders, but your best defense is having POS gunners, a good POS setup (****/deathstar, always include guns) and enough active members in your corp. Often enough, would-be evicters will leave after being properly fought with - that is, get in some ships, 100M+ per person or so (don't do drakes) - navy cruisers/bc, t2 cruisers, t3s, BS, get a fleet up with your guys, and go fight the enemy.

Your best bet is to pvp when the opportunity arises, get some friends (often by killing them or dying to them), and to not be that special kind of ******* that people just want to evict, just because they don't like him.
Jak'at
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#6 - 2013-12-10 22:42:46 UTC
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
1. The hostiles anchoring Large t2 mobile warp disruptors around your tower covering it in bubbles. This prevents most ships from warping back into the POS once leaving it.
.


If the bubbles overlap the POS shield, it prevents people from warping out of the POS also. They would have to burn out of the POS/bubbles to try and leave. This prevents people from trying to run to a safe and cloak when the tower is about to go down.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#7 - 2013-12-11 00:09:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
If you can roll 10 blackbirds you can almost certainly get a fleet comp going that could fight and have a chance of winning against a moderate sized hostile fleet engaging your POS (with the aid of your POS defences) - though most people when sieging a system have some idea of what the enemy can bring to the fight and bring more numbers. Likewise they will probably try and research your timezone(s) and attempt to engage the POS when your most likely not to be around if possible unless they actually want a fight.

Many POS defences fail even with the best of potential backup plans in place due to soooo often people going off half cocked and trying to fight back when they only have half their potential numbers online, throwing away ships and pilots that would be crucial for a proper defence and screwing everyone in the process - don't really understand what goes through people's minds at this point or why they do it but don't do it hah. (EDIT: I guess its coz they don't like sitting around watching the enemy have the upper hand and instead of biding their time go on the offence too early).
Sith1s Spectre
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-12-11 05:05:54 UTC
Jak'at wrote:
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
1. The hostiles anchoring Large t2 mobile warp disruptors around your tower covering it in bubbles. This prevents most ships from warping back into the POS once leaving it.
.


If the bubbles overlap the POS shield, it prevents people from warping out of the POS also. They would have to burn out of the POS/bubbles to try and leave. This prevents people from trying to run to a safe and cloak when the tower is about to go down.

Lol, missed that word, Damn phone

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant

Aakkonen
Yoyodyne Industries
#9 - 2013-12-11 09:42:25 UTC
Be prepared to defend, C2 with HS and higher class wh are VERY sought after... Guys above gave good advices, use them.

Aakkonen

Bad Jokes since -09.... Fly Safe! o7

Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#10 - 2013-12-11 09:48:47 UTC
Most probable scenario is taht if you are attacked and your pos is reinforced attack i s erformed by determined and well prepared attacker. So you should also prepare eveacuation plans which is probably safer and less costly than trying to fight supperrior force.
Borsek
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2013-12-11 10:21:40 UTC
Oska Rus wrote:
Most probable scenario is taht if you are attacked and your pos is reinforced attack i s erformed by determined and well prepared attacker. So you should also prepare eveacuation plans which is probably safer and less costly than trying to fight supperrior force.



situational

if you have one pos and few ships, this is a viable option

however, if you have a 20 member corp with a few POS, losses will be great anyway, so you might as well go down punching instead of running to the exit only to be shot in the back

in any case, simply running is usually frowned upon in w-space
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-12-11 14:41:11 UTC
Simple answer: Fight Back

Detailed answer: Most of us come to wormholes for a fight that means if you fight when people roll into you... well its less likely that you get burnt out whether its because you fought off the attackers or you made enough friends that you can get someone to come and help defend you. Your ideas are fairly good my only suggestions would be the following: For your ECM fleet think about shipping them up from blackbirds i.e. falcons, ecm Tengus, Scorps, hell if you have ten of them then combat fitted Rooks may actually be able to wreck a smaller (20and under) siege fleet. For your bombing fleet this is where it requires more planning practice and preparation You want warp points so that you can easily get the wing into position (and having a couple full wings is important) if you dont have warp in points then a good cloaky can act as one. Practice your bombing runs even if its just setting up mobile depots or GSCs and then bombing them you need to get it where a full wing (5 to 7 people) can all launch their bombs at roughly the same time, This also allows you the chance to work on multiple wings (if you have the people to do so) learn how to time their bombing runs correctly. Preparation is similar to planning but deals more with the bombers instead of the bombing run. All the bombers in a wing need to have the same bomb type (that way they dont kill each others bombs) that means even if one or two of you fly a different bomber then the others go with the same bomb as them. Also worth noting are Void and Lockbreaker bombs if you have any extra bombers these things are downright annoying if used right (they also allow you to disable logi long enough to make sure your damaging bombs do their thing). Anyways onto the shield Logi... its a good idea if it can be pulled off correctly t1 logi (and possibly t2) will get alphaed before they can even lock and rep more than a cycle so do not try and rep a little and pop back in the shield in the middle of the siege this sadly leaves your only opportunity to rep being after they fleet has left... which if the fleet is any good will be only when the tower is reinforced which leaves you unable to rep it then... and if they're smart they will be on the tower an hour or so before it comes out... leaving you no real chance to rep the shields. Thats not me saying dont have them in hole though, not at all, if for chance they have trouble fleeting back up right away then you can try and get it back up high enough to restront it... and trust me most people are going to get pissed at that and may honestly not see it worth their time to wait another day and a half (or however long the timer is).


Anyways thats my rambling for the day take it for what its worth... but i will leave you with one last little piece of information... Dont leave overly shiny stuff just hanging out for anyone to see... For example if we ever chain to you and see 3 shiny faction towers and then see several carriers just sitting in the forcefields unpiloted well lets just say we would probably consider an extended stay Twisted so either log in the shiny ship or store them.

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.

Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
#13 - 2013-12-11 16:29:12 UTC
Another thing - don't talk smack with the invaders in local, and make sure your corp-mates don't either. Be professional, and if you convo them, be polite. You might get an acceptable resolution to the situation. But you won't get jack if you act like a turd.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-12-11 17:44:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnaw LF
Torlock Deathlord wrote:
Hello there! We live in a C2 HS+C3 static hole and ive got a few questions. We have a bunch of plans in place in the event we are attacked. Id like to get your imput on how effefct they would be. And ive got a few general questions about Wh defence thanks.


1. What is a "**** cage"? Will hostil forces put bubbles around our POS and will that make it so we cant warp to/from it?

2.If you log in, inside the POS and they have put bubbles around it will you become suck outside? (in the bubbles)

3. Can you describe "hole control" to me






Our plans in event of attack

1. We have 10 fully fit black birds that would be used to bother anyone attacking in turret/missle based ships.

2. We have a bomber wing set up in case they use sentry doms/other slow stationary targets.

3. We have a bunch of T1 Logi ships to pop in and out of the POS shields to heal the guns then scoot back inside if attacked.



Thanks for any suggestions/tips and your answers. (posted with alt for obvious reasons) Blink



Everything depends on the type of opponent you come across, their size as well as their doctrines will matter. However, in the end if you **** off a serious w-space group and they decide to evict you there is absolutely nothing you can do. Nada. Zip. Wormholes with HS as static cannot be defended, they take too long to cycle and your opponent does not need to scan out long chains. In the end you will be expending more time and energy to keep hole control of your HS static, while your opponent will comfortably sit and wait in some HS station.

Here is the good news, your Wormhole does not need to be defended. Yeah, its very convenient to have HS as a static but not entirely necessary. If you ever get invaded, just move out to HS and find another system, maybe try a C3 and work your way to C5.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-12-11 17:49:51 UTC
Riel Saigo wrote:
Another thing - don't talk smack with the invaders in local, and make sure your corp-mates don't either. Be professional, and if you convo them, be polite. You might get an acceptable resolution to the situation. But you won't get jack if you act like a turd.



I would actually suggest the opposite, talk smack. Make it the best, dirtiest, most insulting matter that ever came of your mouth / keyboard. You are already being invaded, if its going well for the invader then being polite won't stop em, smack might at least cause them to make some mistakes.
Nobbler Hakuli
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-12-11 23:09:22 UTC
Never talk smack if you do you deserve to lose it

Everyone log off in interceptors bubble immune you can at least get into and out of the pos

Safe spots

Get everyone to train starbase defence management that way you can at least hurt them

Marauders are ewar immune so dickstar not as good as before, have loads of guns either anchored and offlined with ammo in or better in hangar where you can anchor and online them from inside shields, neutralizers are good for marauders webs are good for intys to stop them running ammo dry

If all else fails congratulate attackers and bugger off to high sec to start again oh and make sure you leave them nothing even if you self destruct the lot
Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
#17 - 2013-12-12 00:29:26 UTC
Gnaw, that assumes you are better at the mind games than they are.

I don't assume that.
Borsek
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2013-12-12 00:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Borsek
d-d-d-doublepost
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-12-12 06:44:39 UTC
Riel Saigo wrote:
Gnaw, that assumes you are better at the mind games than they are.

I don't assume that.



Stewwhich is my combat main.
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