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Incursions Rubbish
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Jean deVallette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-12-09 10:04:34 UTC
So yet another incursion round our way, and something that seems
to migrate our locals off. Mission systems empty, noobs suffer isk
loss. Working as intended.

In its wake, come the mass of orcas and bling. These people add nothing
to the the local economy, an inversion of the norm. Bloated gangs of
grinders hit the hardest parts of incursions immediately. There is little
to no chance of 'getting in' as a noob, and its either a bling boat or
logi V for acceptance.

So what is wrong with incursions?

That little bar showing the level of invasion quickly turns totally
blue. It then stays that way being milked for the whole weekend. Sansha
Bob has been sighted, but nobody is going for him. Why is it so
crap? Well, it ruins a game for a load of 'locals' who have to up and
ship out for the duration. The unreality of Sansah sitting there taking
an everlasting beating is toytown in itself.

The simplest solution? Once the 'skull' appears. You have 14 hours to
find/kill the carrier or Sansha retreat and go elsewhere. That might drive
the competition a bit.
Jakar Th'al
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-12-09 10:56:17 UTC
Shhh. Dont tell CCP its being milked.

The whole incursions thing is a joke. 5 or 6 systems. Emtpy save for one 200 man pile never quite killing the boss.


Its the WoW of eve.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#3 - 2013-12-09 12:17:55 UTC
You would think a creative minded Toon would welcome the opportunity to have 400 to 700 Billionaire Players come to their system and be willing to pay 200% for ammo, modules, nanite paste....

But I guess that escaped you.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Jean deVallette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-12-09 12:56:13 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
You would think a creative minded Toon would welcome the opportunity to have 400 to 700 Billionaire Players come to their system and be willing to pay 200% for ammo, modules, nanite paste....

But I guess that escaped you.



Oh yes - escapes many more - they left system. You didnt get that bit.

The Orcas basically pull from the local market hubs - Jita, Amarr, Dodix and Hek. Trundling off while you milk the cow. You need that much ammo because you make it last forever - its not a broken mechanic in that sense. Its that unreality that makes it less than entertaining. Its the hisec NAP to match the blue donut.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-12-09 15:57:27 UTC
Jean deVallette wrote:
So yet another incursion round our way, and something that seems
to migrate our locals off. Mission systems empty, noobs suffer isk
loss. Working as intended.

In its wake, come the mass of orcas and bling. These people add nothing
to the the local economy, an inversion of the norm. Bloated gangs of
grinders hit the hardest parts of incursions immediately. There is little
to no chance of 'getting in' as a noob, and its either a bling boat or
logi V for acceptance.

So what is wrong with incursions?

That little bar showing the level of invasion quickly turns totally
blue. It then stays that way being milked for the whole weekend. Sansha
Bob has been sighted, but nobody is going for him. Why is it so
crap? Well, it ruins a game for a load of 'locals' who have to up and
ship out for the duration. The unreality of Sansah sitting there taking
an everlasting beating is toytown in itself.

The simplest solution? Once the 'skull' appears. You have 14 hours to
find/kill the carrier or Sansha retreat and go elsewhere. That might drive
the competition a bit.


What if I told you you do not really need a blinged out boat to run incursion?
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#6 - 2013-12-09 16:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalashaska Adam
You can get into an incursion fleet just fine with a 5m SP character with a meta4 gun Rokh/Mael/Hype.

Thats how I started them. If you can do L4 missions then you can do incursions.
Solar Stoned
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-12-09 17:12:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Solar Stoned
I just started doing incursions with the valhalla project.....i read up on them first....found out as much info as i could and entered an incursion pure cold with a nod from a fellow community member telling me 'i'll be grand'...well i went in with a very poor fit and the community helped me to correctly refit my ship and then boom im in fleet.....did a few silly things getting used to it all....flying the wrong way....orbiting a sniper....following the drone bunny to name a few..... but now im up to scratch after only 2 weeks doing it and + 2billion in isk which helped upgrade my ship & give a plex for good + a whole bunch of concord loyalty points= a very happy space pilot :)
as for the incursion itself well it just adds a bit of spice 2 a usually quite and boring system. join in and perhaps you might change your mind....there is a ton of communities that you can join.....you'll probably end up like the rest of us nomads floating through space ready to take on the bandits and actually help get your system back up to 100%
:)


ps: i trained up for basilisk logistics ship.....im level 4 logistics at the moment!

♥  is like a fart.... if you have to force it....  it's probably shite ✯
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#8 - 2013-12-09 23:01:07 UTC
Then get some friends and run the mom site if you don't like sansha getting his ample **** getting milked off.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-12-09 23:11:56 UTC
CCP should stop trying to get me involved in the wide world of EVE and let me mindlessly AFK grind my NPCs in peace.
Tasha Saisima
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-12-09 23:21:45 UTC
The vast majority of incursion players do not use a Orca and buy their needs locally
Jean deVallette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-12-10 00:26:48 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
CCP should stop trying to get me involved in the wide world of EVE and let me mindlessly AFK grind my NPCs in peace.



Well, all of the responses seem to say the same thing, like Zombies, they move to the Grind. Its not the lowly NPC .. oh wait. It is an NPC grind. Its just an extended one - grinding LP for another organisation. Which is worse?

Why do CCP let it happen, because it certainly didnt seem like this was meant to be anything other than a rush to tackle invarders. And now its just another cashcow, no player conflict over the winnings, no race to get it done.

No - its turned it from something decent to something tawdry and bland, and it sits affecting an area for a week when it should be over in hours.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-12-10 02:17:51 UTC
Jean deVallette wrote:
So yet another incursion round our way, and something that seems
to migrate our locals off. Mission systems empty, noobs suffer isk
loss. Working as intended.

In its wake, come the mass of orcas and bling. These people add nothing
to the the local economy, an inversion of the norm. Bloated gangs of
grinders hit the hardest parts of incursions immediately. There is little
to no chance of 'getting in' as a noob, and its either a bling boat or
logi V for acceptance.

So what is wrong with incursions?

That little bar showing the level of invasion quickly turns totally
blue. It then stays that way being milked for the whole weekend. Sansha
Bob has been sighted, but nobody is going for him. Why is it so
crap? Well, it ruins a game for a load of 'locals' who have to up and
ship out for the duration. The unreality of Sansah sitting there taking
an everlasting beating is toytown in itself.

The simplest solution? Once the 'skull' appears. You have 14 hours to
find/kill the carrier or Sansha retreat and go elsewhere. That might drive
the competition a bit.


aww, did the little carebear get turned down in his officer XLASB golem?
Jean deVallette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-12-10 09:33:56 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:


{ some sense }

aww, did the little carebear get turned down in his officer XLASB golem?


tldr
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#14 - 2013-12-10 10:37:27 UTC
Jean deVallette wrote:
So yet another incursion round our way, and something that seems to migrate our locals off. Mission systems empty, noobs suffer isk loss. Working as intended.


Having 400 to 700 people come to your system and be willing to spend huge chunks of ISK on conveniences while displacing the 20 or 30 full time residents from running missions and mining ore for a few days should be seen as an opportunity not a punishment.

As I stated earlier sell ammo, nanite paste, large shield extenders, 800mm 1600mm plates, Reinforced bulkheads, tracking comps, webs, target painters... Incursioners eat up a lot of resources, and make enough ISK to pay a fairly dear margin to expedite their needs. Fleets run continuously till they don’t and the window to make that ISK cannot be interrupted by a trip to restock ammo or find a missing module. I made 150% mark-up on ammo and 300% on T2 invuls, the first time I had an incursion in my local. The second time I was selling CNInvuls at a 40% markup (making 200 mil profit each).

Jean deVallette wrote:
In its wake, come the mass of orcas and bling. These people add nothing to the the local economy, an inversion of the norm. Bloated gangs of grinders hit the hardest parts of incursions immediately. There is little to no chance of 'getting in' as a noob, and its either a bling boat or logi V for acceptance.


Not getting into Incursions because you’re a noob, is no different than not being able to do a lvl4 because you’re a noob. Incursions were not designed for new guys, it was designed for the old mission grinders that could do lvl-4s in their sleep and LVL-5s with distain. It’s an opportunity to bring along a few less skilled pilots to show them the possibilities in EVE, while doing the one thing EVE was designed for ‘Teamwork'.

BTW; Bling is not required, But Logi V is the only way that ship actually works as intended.

Jean deVallette wrote:

So what is wrong with incursions?

That little bar showing the level of invasion quickly turns totally blue. It then stays that way being milked for the whole weekend. Sansha Bob has been sighted, but nobody is going for him. Why is it so crap? Well, it ruins a game for a load of 'locals' who have to up and ship out for the duration. The unreality of Sansah sitting there taking an everlasting beating is toytown in itself.

The simplest solution? Once the 'skull' appears. You have 14 hours to find/kill the carrier or Sansha retreat and go elsewhere. That might drive the competition a bit.


Agreed I think similar mechanics should be applied to all EVE PVE, you can loot or get paid for a mission but not both, you can mine but once the roid you selected pops the whole belt despawns, or once a ghost site is completed anywhere in eve all the rest disappear. Exceptions should be made for lowsec only, where the number of people in local has a direct effect on sites so more people means more sites, and then the wee lambs can be led to a slaughter (A little more sarcasm for this thread).Ugh

Every PVE resource in EVE is farmed to one extent or another, Incursions are no different in this respect. The Unreality of Sansha taking an everlasting Beating is no less believable than a silly damsel going back to a brothel over and over again, I say leave the Vapid Brat there she obviously likes Krull and his cronies. So relax the interruption to your grinding will be gone in less than a week (5 days give or take and it disappears by itself) then you can get back to the mindless grinding you're accustomed to and all your unwelcome guests will pack up and move on.

Or get a ship and join in the fun.

Just a glass half full perspective.Big smile

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Jean deVallette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-12-10 13:10:46 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:


{some good sense}

Just a glass half full perspective.Big smile


Yes - thanks - I see the sense in some of what you say, and I understand the relationship between killing rat X and rat S in this case. It applies to all of eve. Poor Damsel need some intervention not blasting.

The only real difference in an incursion, well, its the impact it has on an area. Sickly green and hellish audio (try running 3 clients, you cant turn off that noise). Miners cant mine, missioners cant mission (well, suffer a lot isk wise), generally its a PITA unless your in the club.

I shall attend the obligatory channel and X up my LFSF scimi - old and L5 of course.

My corpmates will wince - my Orca not there, as we all shifted to mine elsewhere. Our incomes snapped. 3 month old toons are simply confused by it all - evidently I am the only one who think it sucks. The takers dont.

I thought Incursions were meant to be more like pvp - there is no drive or conflict though. Sorry if you think its fun, its simply the grind of missions - I'm quite sure the excitement doesn't exist in Incursions. One change would make it all the more urgent and 'realistic' . Milking 5 FTW
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-12-10 13:12:09 UTC
Jean deVallette wrote:
The only real difference in an incursion, well, its the impact it has on an area. Sickly green and hellish audio (try running 3 clients, you cant turn off that noise). Miners cant mine, missioners cant mission (well, suffer a lot isk wise), generally its a PITA unless your in the club.

That is, you know, kinda the whole point of incursions.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#17 - 2013-12-10 13:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Jean deVallette wrote:


My corpmates will wince - my Orca not there, as we all shifted to mine elsewhere. Our incomes snapped. 3 month old toons are simply confused by it all - evidently I am the only one who think it sucks. The takers dont.

I had a thought for you and your group, If you can organize them to do a VG site called an Nation Mining Colony (NMC for short) there is one rock in there called Lyavite, this ore is required to finish the site (255 units of it) but the roid in site has nearly a full Orca worth in one rock. You and your group could probably mine it in a few minutes (10 to 15 with a full mining fleet) and sell each stack for a tidy sum in local contracts. I believe it was going for 1 mil per stack a few months ago, and 500k per stack would make it sell pretty fast.

You will get another spawn of (easier to kill) rats after the first mining laser cycle completes, and a final spawn of frigs only, about 10 to 15 minutes later. I think if you pop the facility (Just drop 255 units in the can) the spawns stop coming and there's around 15million units of ore Left to mine (Veldspar if I remember right). Note I have never sat and mined the site clear so I am assuming the last part of no more spawns.

You might suggest this to you corpies as a way to kill time and make ISK. I am sure there will be a few communities in the area that could help clearing the site and showing you all the ropes.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Jean deVallette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-12-10 14:57:53 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Jean deVallette wrote:
The only real difference in an incursion, well, its the impact it has on an area. Sickly green and hellish audio (try running 3 clients, you cant turn off that noise). Miners cant mine, missioners cant mission (well, suffer a lot isk wise), generally its a PITA unless your in the club.

That is, you know, kinda the whole point of incursions.


What - the crap audio. The incessant drone. The PITA? One or all?

And as for mining, I am quite sure we wont be going into any of the sites, Orca costs, newbie miners have no tank. And everyone else doing sites is 4 jumps away - all 200 of them - milking the cow.

The cow should be more intelligent and leave, and fair enough, if it takes 2 hours for that 200 to kill the cow, the reward should be the same or commensurate.

At the moment its a week of 'hell' and that nothing to do with the actual game, its to do with the way its being farmed.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#19 - 2013-12-10 18:12:41 UTC
It's called "settings". Hit ESC key, click Audio tab, turn off eve sound. 1 problem solved.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#20 - 2013-12-10 19:18:47 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
It's called "settings". Hit ESC key, click Audio tab, turn off eve sound. 1 problem solved.

While there open your Display & Graphics settings tab and set 'Post Processing' to 'None' and the visual effect goes away as well.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
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