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Missions & Complexes

 
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Nullsec NiNjA Plexing: Next Level Ninja Master Guide
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DrunkenNinja
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#201 - 2013-01-04 08:13:56 UTC
Second necro bump for great justice. This thread is still relevant and I would REALLY like to know if it was still viable with an Ishtar.
I will probobly sell this character and buy an Ishtar skilled one if it is.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2013-01-23 16:56:28 UTC
Rats barely attack sentry drones and they have a lot of hp, so it's fine. I have a small remote repairer in a high slot for repping up sentries when they take agro. Small drones take a little more agro, but it's nothing to worry about.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2013-01-23 17:05:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Derath Ellecon
Akturous wrote:
Rats barely attack sentry drones and they have a lot of hp, so it's fine. I have a small remote repairer in a high slot for repping up sentries when they take agro. Small drones take a little more agro, but it's nothing to worry about.



Honestly I've seen the opposite. My sentries get attacked a TON. On the plus side it's usually the battleships and the sentries can tank like a boss. I just pull the one taking aggro then re-deploy. I changed my load out slightly to put some light armor drones in to rep them when needed.

On the plus side, it means a whole lot less the Ishtar actually has to tank at times, which actually works. Haven't lost a drone yet.

[edit]

I should say the primary area's where i was getting lots of drone aggro are anoms. Not radars etc.
Baron Birco
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#204 - 2013-01-24 03:57:48 UTC
I've been wanting to try out complexes for a while. I like the idea of using an Ishtar because its cheap, has respectable DPS and can basically handle whatever type of rats it encounters due to the versatility of drones (frigs to BS - close to long range). I also never saw drone aggro as a means of deflecting some incoming dmg whilst using a small RR to keep them alive - excellent point.

My question remains - what exactly can this ship handle in terms of pirate faction, complex type & rating (7/10 or less?)

As for a fit I'm considering using dual complex small reps (they are fairly cheap) - the same idea as some folks like to tank their Tengu, reference: Tengu PvE

The remaining lows would be for pirate-specific resistance. I can also provide the Ishtar with off-grid boosts via Damnation. Perhaps the boosts are over-kill...?

Specifically my questions are:
1. How high do relevant resists need to be vs said faction?
2. Given high enough resist, how much dps should I be able to tank?
3. Is there a particular faction, complex, or complex rating I should just plain avoid? I'm assuming nothing over 7/10.
4. How bad are the complexes that neut?
5. Do radar sites scale in difficulty according to a system's true sec or are they all pretty much the same difficulty?

All of this assumes I am AB speed tanking and prioritizing correctly, i.e web towers, scram ships, neut cruisers, ect...
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2013-01-24 04:52:19 UTC
Baron Birco wrote:
I've been wanting to try out complexes for a while. I like the idea of using an Ishtar because its cheap, has respectable DPS and can basically handle whatever type of rats it encounters due to the versatility of drones (frigs to BS - close to long range). I also never saw drone aggro as a means of deflecting some incoming dmg whilst using a small RR to keep them alive - excellent point.

My question remains - what exactly can this ship handle in terms of pirate faction, complex type & rating (7/10 or less?)

As for a fit I'm considering using dual complex small reps (they are fairly cheap) - the same idea as some folks like to tank their Tengu, reference: Tengu PvE

The remaining lows would be for pirate-specific resistance. I can also provide the Ishtar with off-grid boosts via Damnation. Perhaps the boosts are over-kill...?

Specifically my questions are:
1. How high do relevant resists need to be vs said faction?
2. Given high enough resist, how much dps should I be able to tank?
3. Is there a particular faction, complex, or complex rating I should just plain avoid? I'm assuming nothing over 7/10.
4. How bad are the complexes that neut?
5. Do radar sites scale in difficulty according to a system's true sec or are they all pretty much the same difficulty?

All of this assumes I am AB speed tanking and prioritizing correctly, i.e web towers, scram ships, neut cruisers, ect...



I was testing the new AI on the test server with an ishtar fit identically to the OP, with the exception of meta 4 in place of any faction (since you can't really get deadspace or faction stuff there).

the toughest thing I tried, was a Serpentis Forlorn Hub
which isn't really too bad, unless like me, you manage to pop all the triggers early. I ended up with about the first 3 waves all at once.

I did end up warping out one time, but otherwise it was doable. Part of the help was that the Battleships would often target the sentries. but at long ranges did little damage.

As far as the tank, unfortunately there is no good armor equivalent to the dual small booster setup that a tengu uses. For one, there is no armor boost amp. You need your lows for the drone damage amps (tengu has its lows free for BCUs).

1. As high as possible? I have only used an Ishtar against rats it is best for (serpentis and guristas).
2. I suck at figuring out the numbers, but between the signature and repping power I'd say feasibly it tanks 800dps against serps (my raw rep power is 408 and the rest I'd attribute to sig/speed tank)
3. The OP claims running his fit up to 8/10. I havent tried personally.
4. Bad. Active tanks don't like neuts. with a MWD you can keep pulling range, drop sentries, rinse repeat. Thats my standard method when the DPS is too high.
5. Radar sites for the most part are easy compared to any combat sites.
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#206 - 2013-01-24 19:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Koval
Derath Ellecon wrote:

As far as the tank, unfortunately there is no good armor equivalent to the dual small booster setup that a tengu uses. For one, there is no armor boost amp. You need your lows for the drone damage amps (tengu has its lows free for BCUs).


Just to add to the Ishtar hype, who said u can't AST an Ishtar? ;)

Being a huge fan of Drone damage mods, I came up with this:

[Ishtar, Serp 0.0]
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Cap Recharger II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pithum C-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
Pith C-Type Large Shield Booster
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner

Dual 180mm Prototype Automatic Cannon, Phased Plasma M
Dual 180mm Prototype Automatic Cannon, Phased Plasma M
Dual 180mm Prototype Automatic Cannon, Phased Plasma M
[empty high slot] (offlined Salvager here)
Prototype Cloaking Device I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II


Garde II x6
Warden II x6
Hobgoblin II x8
Hornet EC-300 x 7

According to EFT: ~750 dps from Gardes alone, ~565 dps Wardens (not counting guns)


This exact fit is prolbablyy a bit too expensive for serious *ninja* plexing (still a lot cheaper than an adequately fitted Tengu/Proteus tho) but the good thing is it lends itself to tweaking quite well.

For one thing, it's seriously over-tanked. I have done Forlorn Hubs and Havens with it before, but took it to a Serpentis 7/10 yesterday and basically sleep-walked thorugh it, totally invulnerable to whole room aggro just by orbiting the sentries at 2.5 km. It's also cap stable (with implants), which is not necessary at all if you are comfortable pulsing AB/booster (I am just lazy I guess).

So the faction/deadspace mods and t2 rigs can be switched out for cheaper mods if desired.Also, the Hobgoblins have no problems dealing with any frigs that manage to get to close range, so the guns really are the optional - this can help if you run into CPU issues while tweaking this fit to your liking - just remove a gun or two and you should be fine.

TBH I am using Genolutions on almost all of my clones nowadays (because they are so cheap right now) but, in case of most issues, a +3% hardwiring here or there should also suffice for building a nice and inexpensive fit.

Finally, one or both the hardeners (or even the cap recharger, which I don't recommend tho) can be easily switched for codebraker/analyzer for general exploration.

BTW, my drones didn't get aggro for even one second in the 7/10. Keep in mind there are no fresh spawns and no elite frigs in this particular plex. However, flown correctly (doing anomalies/missions) there's usually enough distance for them to pop whatever is targetting them before too much damage is done (flying a sniper/sentry bout in PVE is all about managing your range, obviously).

A final note, if you want to really test your fit / PvE skills with your ishtar, take it into the second room of a Serpentis Provincial HQ. If you manage to clear that without warping out, you are ready for anything (short of 8/10+).


[Edit: Warden dps is correct now, had 6 of them selected by mistake in EFT when first posting]
Din Chao
#207 - 2013-01-24 19:12:01 UTC
Great thread.

I do have a question though. Since I just came back to the game and haven't trained them yet, are Salvage Drones usable on Mag site cans (the ones that require a Salvager instead of an Analyzer, obviously)?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2013-01-25 00:07:59 UTC
Din Chao wrote:
Great thread.

I do have a question though. Since I just came back to the game and haven't trained them yet, are Salvage Drones usable on Mag site cans (the ones that require a Salvager instead of an Analyzer, obviously)?



Pretty sure they cannot.

and Funky, interesting fit. It's not the cost of your fit that kills it for ninja exploration (at least solo like the OP talks about). but more than you lose all of the utility. no probe launcher, codebreaker etc.
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#209 - 2013-01-25 01:32:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Koval
Well, if you are fine with fitting some faction / deadspace stuff then removing one hardener should still leave you with enough tank to do a 7/10 sweat-free.

Btw Pith C large booster is just ~70 mil IIRC, so no huge cost here.

Maybe you can actually remove both both hardeners if you make sure you keep your range diligently in the plex (talking 7/10 again) The last room may become be a bit of a prob then tho. Pretty sure you'd need some serious kiting, then again, nice thing about those wardens is they pop things 60 km out pretty quickly ;).

Alternatively you might decide to stick just to Radars/Mags, then you don't need much tank at all.

But lets say you remove just one, that frees at least 30 cpu, which is enough for a probe launcher and Codebreaker I. Also, faction (True Sansha etc) cap rechargers are only ~20 mill, and that would free up another 5 CPU.

Having said that, yeah this fit wasn't really made with solo ninja-ing in mind. Then again, w/e you do, more DPS can never be a bad thing ;). I think it's a viable alternative to standard Ishtar fits that maybe especially useful to people who cross train to Ishtar form Caldari / Minmatar and have their shield skills trained (and don't really want to invest in armor skills).