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Are the days of Local really numbered?

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ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2013-12-07 15:58:40 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
Untill they make something to replace the intelligence tool that is local, we will still have local. D-Scan doesn't even cut it, so don't try to argue that.


D-Scan and scouting. Like how, y'know, warfare actually is.

Dodixie > Hek
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#142 - 2013-12-07 16:04:19 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Falin Whalen wrote:
Untill they make something to replace the intelligence tool that is local, we will still have local. D-Scan doesn't even cut it, so don't try to argue that.


D-Scan and scouting. Like how, y'know, warfare actually is.

Except that d-scan is a completely **** mechanic.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Albeon Draken
Cyan Dragon Inc
#143 - 2013-12-07 16:08:41 UTC
They could just have the number of people in local, but no names unless the person talks. That way, you can see if someone comes in or leaves, but you have no idea who they are and whether or not they're friendly. That way you don't completely lose local as an intel tool, but people out ratting or mining will have to either dock up every time someone pops in, or take the risk and stay out where they can be blown up.
MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#144 - 2013-12-07 17:23:39 UTC
Albeon Draken wrote:
They could just have the number of people in local, but no names unless the person talks. That way, you can see if someone comes in or leaves, but you have no idea who they are and whether or not they're friendly. That way you don't completely lose local as an intel tool, but people out ratting or mining will have to either dock up every time someone pops in, or take the risk and stay out where they can be blown up.

Actually, this isn't a bad idea.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#145 - 2013-12-07 17:32:21 UTC
I didn't read the thread so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but I do love flogging my poor deceased Equine.

Lose local. Keep constellation.

So you still have intel, but it's not handed to you on a silver platter. A compromise to be sure, but not a bad one outside of high sec where there is hardly anyone around in most places. Inside of high sec the channel would be just too crowded so it wouldn't really work.

Mr Epeen Cool
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#146 - 2013-12-07 17:33:29 UTC
It has been mentioned. Constellation intel would be less precise, but it would also be correspondingly more powerful.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2013-12-07 17:45:40 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
let's hope dscan gets replaced, too, eh


DSCAN is even worse than local.

*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click* OH HEY I SAW SOMETHING FINALLY

is not good gameplay.


Remove the click part and only seeing remains.
Souxie Alduin
Anarchy in the Eve
#148 - 2013-12-07 17:53:08 UTC
Make local in nullsec optional. If the alliance in charge wants local in their system they have to build a Comms Relay, and if you want to blind your opponent you take that structure out.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#149 - 2013-12-07 17:56:37 UTC
"Sonar" with audio alerts would be a billion times better then staring at local until your eyes bleed out.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Prince Kobol
#150 - 2013-12-07 18:04:48 UTC
To replace local would require a change to the core mechanics to Eve as well as innovative thinking.

As we all know CCP are incapable of making any changes to the core mechanics to Eve (PoS's, Sov Mechanics, Corp Management UI, Alliance Tax etc) and any innovative thinking has long since left the building.

So yeah, no need to worry that local will be changed any time soon.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2013-12-07 19:25:32 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It has been mentioned. Constellation intel would be less precise, but it would also be correspondingly more powerful.


i dislike the idea of instantly alerting everyone in a system to my presence by the mere act of jumping in, i'd rather they be alerted to my presence when i'm still a number of jumps out!

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#152 - 2013-12-07 19:49:26 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
if you're ratting combat fit you might as well head to empire because the returns will be so **** that you're better off incursion farming




That can be translated:


The Goon guy wrote:
if you're mining tanked you might as well give up because the returns will be so **** that you're better off incursion farming

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#153 - 2013-12-07 19:53:30 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
So if local is going to be removed in some way, what about all the data that is on the map and on dotlan, such as people in system, rats killed etc., should that still be there, if you want to get rid of instant intel so that space is big and people really have to hunt that has to go to, otherwise what James Amril-Kesh said will happen and the only people ratting in 0.0 will be Garth Telkin and those that can escalate to the end game. I can live with no local as long as people don't get intel that I am ratting in a rubbish system that no one ever goes to and zero in on me with no effort what so ever.

I will expect the worst, but wait to see what CCP do, but if all that intel is still there on the maps and on Dotlan then I will hammer away at CCP on the forums and with petitions to get them to remove it and anyone who wants a game that is difficult for all types of people should do so, who wants to play a game called drive by ganking!!!!



I'm kind of hoping for specialized probes that work like regular probes or such that can be sent through a gate but that's quite a feature. I can hear the lamentations of the nodes.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#154 - 2013-12-07 20:20:00 UTC
what's local?

oh, that chat tab I don't even bother to have up because I live in a wormhole. Blink
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#155 - 2013-12-07 20:28:51 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Falin Whalen wrote:
Untill they make something to replace the intelligence tool that is local, we will still have local. D-Scan doesn't even cut it, so don't try to argue that.


D-Scan and scouting. Like how, y'know, warfare actually is.

Except that d-scan is a completely **** mechanic.

Time to make the servers cry.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#156 - 2013-12-07 20:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Diomedes Calypso
Benny Ohu wrote:
let's hope dscan gets replaced, too, eh


just give me a distance slider.

.. I know that its ok to have some advantage to people with quicker fingers but the divide in mouse movement and key strokes and split attention is huge and , it is a tedious extra need for everyone.

Ideally it is the decission, not the hand movement that determines outcomes in a real time stragtegy game and the fast twitch stuff is left to console games etc.

That doesn't need to be absolute but it should be the general directive.

.... the need for too much scanner use interspersed with other activities is similar . Does taget rat , press scan really divide players in a way we want ?

or does it divide players based on how iritating different people get with extra key strokes ?

Two many key strokes makes a game a pain in the butt. less fun etc for me....very especially if it isn't in isolated periods of play (i.e. I can stand 15 minutes of pvp but don't want to be at that level of manic key stroking for more than 15 minutes of an hour). There is a difference between being AFK and being able to glance around at an email you have at another monitor or sending a text etc...

That is on top of the color of the game by passively seeing coloful stuff about other players .. I'd love to see the corporate logos displayed next to names in local too..... and not really for the PvP advantage.. I just like to think "oh, look at all the guys in that corp that live in these systems... they must be having fun doing X ..

or "hey, looks like these other two groups are invading here.. .. I wonder if one group is with the other"

All of that is available by clicking over and over on all the names in local

I guess some people don't find clicking on 20 names in a row bothersome...

.. its just a pain and a detriment to the game for me even if its not a pain at all for others.


Arrow More clicks isn't a "harder" game... more clicks is a pain and tedious game
Arrow less clicks doesn't mean less attention to enjoying the game.. less clicks means less needed attention to tedious actionsy actions.... just like going hiking isn't more enjoyable on a trail with loose rocks yet the same exact route.

... I want to enjoy the view while hiking and get some areobic excercise.. not be looking down at my feet to see if I trip

.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#157 - 2013-12-07 20:48:47 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
if you're ratting combat fit you might as well head to empire because the returns will be so **** that you're better off incursion farming




That can be translated:


The Goon guy wrote:
if you're mining tanked you might as well give up because the returns will be so **** that you're better off incursion farming


so, you and that fcon guy comparing braindead inattentive quasi-botting miners with players who are actually at their keyboard, staring at their screens for the sake of eking out a living out of their space? hilarious~

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#158 - 2013-12-07 20:52:58 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
if you're ratting combat fit you might as well head to empire because the returns will be so **** that you're better off incursion farming




That can be translated:


The Goon guy wrote:
if you're mining tanked you might as well give up because the returns will be so **** that you're better off incursion farming


so, you and that fcon guy comparing braindead inattentive quasi-botting miners with players who are actually at their keyboard, staring at their screens for the sake of eking out a living out of their space? hilarious~




What have you guys done to the goons? I still think there's some reverse psychology going on here, or some epic trolling. It's hard to believe.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Black Canary Jnr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#159 - 2013-12-07 21:00:38 UTC
All that will happen, IF CCP decide that 'local is OP', is that they will replace it with a sov upgrade, prefferably tied into the military index of a system. In the couple of days these upgrades are being installed an alliance wide mail will go out saying 'do not rat', and the BLOPpsers dream scenario of 'no local' will be dead.

Why a sov upgrade? Because it's an isk sink and opens up interesting scenarios (localless npc null, 'fallow pvp land for cloaky camping', and more)

Is local OP? Well i see 100s of ratters and miners die each week...
In other PVP knowing how many people another gang has is pretty good for avoiding engagements, but this just helps bigger groups of players if it is removed and encourages blobbing :(
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#160 - 2013-12-07 21:00:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Diomedes Calypso
The Spod wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
let's hope dscan gets replaced, too, eh


DSCAN is even worse than local.

*click*, *click*,*....................................................ck*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click* OH HEY I SAW SOMETHING FINALLY

is not good gameplay.


Remove the click part and only seeing remains.



Right .. remove clicking but make the danger or lack of danger .. what you see_.. irrelevant to how frequently you click.

.... delay the knowledge so it's dangerous whether or not you click perhaps

But, do you really like a game with all that clicking?


I think more information and more FALSE information would be a good solution... false positives with random names of some sort (not entirely random, not clearly npc.. but .. well figuring out the BEST fals positive would be an intricate discussion in itself)

That way.. the decision making is based on your assessment of a bluff.. not clicking

.